a bunch of Nforce4 SLI questions

[Tommunist]

i'm going to finally bite the bullet and start ordering but there are some things I need to make sure of and since I'd have to look in a bunch of different threads I figured I'd make easier for me and anyone in the future...

1. 2 sticks of ddr400 performs better than one? (more bandwidth??) and is it ddr or ddr2 that I should be getting?
2. what is the optimal latency for memory timings on these boards? is getting the fastest timings a waste?
3. how stable does the 3000+ OC on this board? stock heatsink okay?
4. will this chipset limit the performence of the dual core chips in the future?
5. what's the deal with the PSU? what do I need to look for when I power this badboy? (number of pins and ammt of power, etc.)
6. will any normal ATX formfactor case house this board without issue or like the PSU do I have to look for something special?
7. which speed of SATA do I want? 150?
8. for a given GPU, for instance the 6800GT or the 6600GT, provided I get a PCI card (which I need no matter what for this board I know) will these cards always be SLI or is there a SLI and non-SLI version of them? I know all GPUs don't support SLI yet but I wasn't sure if for a given card there would be 2 versions of the card. (hopefully that wasn't too confusing)

now the opinion part....

9. thinking of going with the 3000+ (and OCing) instead of, for instance, a 3500+. Is this a good idea such that I'll probably upgrade the chip to a dual core one in a couple years anyway?
10. I was thinking I would buy one GPU now and then buy another one when the prices drop for a nice performence boost. Which GPU should I go with? I was thinking either 6600GT or 6800GT. What do you guys think?
11. who makes quality SATA HDs? same companies as before? (Maxtor, WD, etc.)

okay - that's all I've got for now - I thank the people that take the time to answer these questions

 

[FastEddie]

1. Yes, Dual Channel DDR (not DDR2) allows more bandwidth than Single Channel.
2. Low Latency memory is never a waste, but I can't see breaking the bank to get the ultra low latency modules. Two 512mb DDR400 modules 2.5-3-3-5 in 1T will do the trick.
3. 3000+ 90nm parts run alot cooler that their predecessors, but decent cooling is always recommended for better OC results. A Zalman CNPS7000B-AlCu is light weight, a very good performer, and won't break the bank.
4. Thus far, Anand's crew observed Dual Core processors running on the A8N SLI right out of the box at CES. It appears that the chipset won't be a problem.
5. Get a Single Rail psu that supplies at least 25a on the 12v rail. The one I've been recommending and using in all my A8N SLI builds, without any problems, is the Athena Power 500W A-GPB
6. Normal ATX form factor will work just fine, but keep internal cooling in mind when picking a case.
7. For a problem free setup, I've been using the Seagate S-ATA II drives. These are fast, and support NCQ whenever nVidia gets off the dime and provides us with native NF4 chipset drivers.
8. This will be a preference item. I'm running a pair of 6600GT's, but some will say to get a single 6800 Ultra now, then add a second when you can afford to do so. So this is going to depend on what you want to spend initially, to get this box up and running.
9. See #4.
10. See #8.
11. See #7

 

[Tommunist]

thanx eddie

I'm curious - would running a single 6600GT for now be too unbalanced for the rest of the system? I don't want it to hinder gaming performence too much since my other hardware will be able to pull it's weight pretty well.

 

[FastEddie]

A single 6600GT will work just fine until you can get the second card. A single card will play all the games that are out right now.

 

[Tommunist]

Originally posted by: FastEddie
A single 6600GT will work just fine until you can get the second card. A single card will play all the games that are out right now.

I hate to ask this question (b/c it's annoying) but what's the best way to go about finding retailers of 6800GTs?- they seem to be fairly scarce and pricewatch prices aren't even that low

is 450-460 a normal price? fortunately I have resellerratings to check out sellers....

 

[alien42]

Originally posted by: Tommunist

Originally posted by: FastEddie
A single 6600GT will work just fine until you can get the second card. A single card will play all the games that are out right now.

I hate to ask this question (b/c it's annoying) but what's the best way to go about finding retailers of 6800GTs?- they seem to be fairly scarce and pricewatch prices aren't even that low

is 450-460 a normal price? fortunately I have resellerratings to check out sellers....

tommunist,

the best 6800gt deal right now is this

i am personally going to start with a 6600gt and upgrade to dual 6800gts when the price drops to something more reasonable.

 

[gobucks]

it sounds like you are basically building the exact same system i did a month ago. as such, here is my take:
1) definitely dual channel DDR1 is the way to go - DDR2 had 240 pins, not 184, and is not compatible.
2) if you plan on overlocking, you can get low-latency since if you relax the timings, they overclock well. At stock, though, they are a waste, as the $100 extra you spend would yield much more performance from a processor or GPU upgrade. I have Corsair Value RAM (2x512MB) they were only $140 shipped, and they have 2.5-3-3-8 timings. Also, I got them to overclock to about DDR430, so they have some potential for overclocking, albeit not a ton.
3) The 3000+ rocks!!!!!! I have mine at 2.3GHz right now, I'd go higher but my memory won't do it. I've seen people with 2.6-2.7GHz on high end air and good memory, but unfortunately i have neither. I ran a 5/6 memory divider, too, and the performance impact seems pretty minimal, so feel free to do that. At 2.3GHz, it's still running cool on a stock heatsink, so you really only need to go out and buy an aftermarket one if you plan on going much higher than that. You probably should get some Arctic Silver 5 coolant, though, cause it'll shave a few degrees off your temps, and for cheap.
4) Yeah, all the NF4 boards, and i think most 939 NF3s can run dual cores, but some might need a bios update. Anyways, that's my plan, too.
5) You NEED a 24-pin ATX 2.0 PSU, especially if you plan to overclock or upgrade your video. Since most ATX2.0 PSUs are from good brands (OCZ, Antec, Fortron, Vantec, etc.) and are pretty high wattage, you'll likely be fine with most of them. I like my Vantec VAN-520A, and it's only $90. Antec and OCZ are good, too. Just steer clear of that stupid Ultra X-Connect PSU. It looks great, and the modular connectors are great, but performance sucks.
6) Yeah, mid or full towers are fine, I personally prefer full towers because they have plenty of bays and space for big fans.
7) I don't think those seagate drives are really SATA-II. In fact, on the newegg page for them, they say SATA-II in the product name, but the interface is listed as SATA150. I think they do have NCQ, though. I recommend either going with a cheap SATA drive or a big, fast drive like the Maxtor Diamondmax 10 with NCQ and 16MB buffer (300GB or 250GB). Seagate will also have 7200.8s with 16MB buffers, but right now they are all 8MB, and i can't recommend them. Either way, real SATA-II drives won't really be out for like a year, and they won't be able to use the speed until raptors with 16MB buffers, larger capacities, and NCQ are available.
8) Just about all PCIe geforce 6's have SLI. Of course, I personally no longer feel there is too much of a point in getting one 6600GT now and upgrading, for 2 reasons. 1) By the time you upgrade (1 year or so) 128MB of memory won't be enough - just look at doom3 for a sign of things to come. Since memory is duplicated, you don't get double the memory. 2) Just look at the competition and upcoming products - for example, the X800XL has almost twice the performance of a 6600GT, and is only $300 MSRP. By next year, with R520/NV50, better performance will be even cheaper, and will have newer features. I say get one 6600GT for $180 now, then sell it for like $75 in a year to a non-tech-savvy friend who bought a Dell with integrated graphics or something, and go buy a better card. The 6600GT is a great performer, i highly recommend it for the price, too. It sounds about right for the system, but the mobo seems like it might be a bit overpowered and overpriced.

Oh, and btw, if you end up deciding you don't need SLI, i'd recommend going with an Ultra instead. I ended up RMAing my A8N-SLI and got a Chaintech VNF4/Ultra instead. The price difference was 80 bucks, and the only difference is the lack of redundant stuff (PCIe x16, LAN, SATA ports). It's currently like $120, so you can put the money you save towards an upgrade. If you end up getting the chaintech, make sure you get the new bios. the shipping bios sucks, I moved to the newest beta bios (1-26-2005) and it's much better. Oh, and the board is physically smaller, only using like 6 case screws rather than 9, so it might fit in a smaller case.

 

[TheInvincibleMustard]

Regarding RAM -- check out this thread that shows very very little difference between "high-performance" and "value" ram. Corsair Value, or these Mushkin sticks would be plenty fine. As gobucks said, the extra money comes from being able to overclock higher, but in my opinion it's not worth the extra $100+

Regarding video -- unless you're going to be running one of the games that nVidia has optimized in drivers for SLI (nZone link) you'd be better off going with a 6800GT instead of the 2x6600GT route (reference), as the ones on that list are the ONLY ones that will benefit from SLI, which is something that most reviews fail to mention -- by "benefit" here, I mean actually show a marked increase by using SLI technology. Sure, as the drivers progress more games will be added, but if you really really enjoy an out-of-mainstream game you should realize that you'll probably be running it only on a 6600GT and not an SLI'd setup.
It's also important to realize that by adding a second 6600GT/6800GT you're not going to be getting the direct hardware support for newer items (like DirectX10), so that's something else to consider.
Also, while the X800XL is a great performer compared to the 6600GT, you need to find one at a comparable price in order for it to be truly worth it ... cheapest I've seen them around has been like $400+ ... for that price you could just about get a 6800GT ...

And gobucks -- where the fsck have you seen 6600GT's for $180?! Cheapest I can find from a decent store is $250 ...

 

[Tommunist]

Originally posted by: TheInvincibleMustard
Regarding RAM -- check out this thread that shows very very little difference between "high-performance" and "value" ram. Corsair Value, or these Mushkin sticks would be plenty fine. As gobucks said, the extra money comes from being able to overclock higher, but in my opinion it's not worth the extra $100+

Regarding video -- unless you're going to be running one of the games that nVidia has optimized in drivers for SLI (nZone link) you'd be better off going with a 6800GT instead of the 2x6600GT route (reference), as the ones on that list are the ONLY ones that will benefit from SLI, which is something that most reviews fail to mention -- by "benefit" here, I mean actually show a marked increase by using SLI technology. Sure, as the drivers progress more games will be added, but if you really really enjoy an out-of-mainstream game you should realize that you'll probably be running it only on a 6600GT and not an SLI'd setup.
It's also important to realize that by adding a second 6600GT/6800GT you're not going to be getting the direct hardware support for newer items (like DirectX10), so that's something else to consider.
Also, while the X800XL is a great performer compared to the 6600GT, you need to find one at a comparable price in order for it to be truly worth it ... cheapest I've seen them around has been like $400+ ... for that price you could just about get a 6800GT ...

And gobucks -- where the fsck have you seen 6600GT's for $180?! Cheapest I can find from a decent store is $250 ...

newegg has the 6600GT for ~180.

update: i have now ordered the asus nforce4 SLI board and an eVGA 6800GT (thanx for the link on the 6800GT alien - a very solid price). I'm curious about the OCing - what does OCing the 3000+ to 2.3 Ghz make it about eqaul to? I'm thinking of ordering some slightly higher end ram just so when I do OC I know it will be stable. Otherwise I would follow everyone's advice and go for some value ram.

I've seen that thing about the SLI working in games and all of that... I figure by the time I bought a 2nd card that they'd have it more worked out.

 

[Tommunist]

Originally posted by: FastEddie

5. Get a Single Rail psu that supplies at least 25a on the 12v rail. The one I've been recommending and using in all my A8N SLI builds, without any problems, is the Athena Power 500W A-GPB

I've never actually bought the case and psu seperate - will this PSU you recommended fit in pretty much any ATX case?

I'm thinking about getting this one...

http://www.newegg.com/app/view...=23&manufactory=BROWSE

I'll take recommendations on cases too but I'm just going for what I think looks good and has lots of good cooling potential....

 

[TheInvincibleMustard]

Ahahahahaha!

<-- idiot

Reason that I've only been finding PCIe 6600GT's for $250 has been that I've only been searching for BFG ones! *facepalm*

...

Anyway, if you're looking at that price range, have you considered any of the Lian-Li PC-6x series? Great high-quality all-aluminum cases, plenty of cooling and expansion, and lots of nice options on them as well. If you're looking for someone else to do some modifications for you on them, I'd recommend CrazyPC ... plenty of nice options with Lian-Li cases there. That TT one, I dunno, just looks a lot cheaper to me. Buying a case, however, is so much a personal choice that there's only so far that others can help you ...

Regarding PSU compatibility -- the only time you could have potential problems would be with a larger PSU (I can't recall specifics ... I think Enermax makes one that's like an inch longer or something) and a case that has a "cage" for the PSU (you'll know it when you see it). All other combinations should work fine.

 

[Tommunist]

cheapest of the full tower lian-li cases is like 180 bucks (gah!) - I think they are nice looking cases but toooo much

 

[FastEddie]

Yes. the psu I linked to will fit all atx cases.

 

[Tommunist]

Originally posted by: FastEddie
Yes. the psu I linked to will fit all atx cases.

cool - looks like a great PSU - good amp ratings and not a bad price

 

[Tommunist]

another pretty sweet case - i think i might get this one...

http://www.newegg.com/app/view...=23&manufactory=BROWSE

 

[Tommunist]

one last question....

how much memory is normal these days? I was thinking of ordering 2x512 for 1 gig of memory - does this sound about right?

 

[TheInvincibleMustard]

Originally posted by: Tommunist
cheapest of the full tower lian-li cases is like 180 bucks (gah!) - I think they are nice looking cases but toooo much

OK, is there some reason you're looking at a full-tower case in particular? Let's compare (all specs taken from NewEgg):

Comparing Cases:..... Lian-Li PC-65 ................. Thermaltake Xaser-III V200A ...... Winner

• Materal:.............100% Al............................Al + Plastic (front) ..................... TIE

• Bays:..........5.25x4/0, 3.5x3/5.....................5.25x4/0, 3.5x2/6...................... TIE

Same number of drive bays, though Lian-Li trades an internal 3.5" for an external.

• Front Ports:......USB2.0 x2.....................USB2.0x2,IEEE1394x1,Micx1,Spkx1.... TT

Although, it's important to know that those ports are on the TOP of the TT, while on the Lian-Li they're on the front.

• Cooling:...........4x80mm...................................7x80mm............................... TIE

You could argue that the TT has more fans, but anything really more than 4 or 5 is overkill and not needed. Plus, since the Lian-Li is 100% aluminum, it will also conduct heat away nicely through the case.

• Dimensions:...8.5"x17"x18"............................20.9"x8.1"x20.5"...................... Lian-Li

(unless you prefer gigantic cases ... personally, I don't)

• Specials:.... Fan-Speed Control..........................Fan-Speed Control................. TIE

• CONT:.........Horiz HDD Rack..............................Horiz HDD Rack..................... TIE

• CONT:.......Removable M/B Tray..............................Nope............................... Lian-Li

• Styling:.........Sleek, Clean........................TT Glowing Logo, Colorful................ Subjective

Personally, I prefer the looks of the Lian-Li, and would take that over a glowing TT logo on the front of my machine.

• PRICE:............$116 shipped............................ $185 shipped.......................... Lian-Li

By quite a good margin! Nearly $70 difference between the two.
For comparison, the PC-75 is $199 shipped, only $14 more than the TT you've linked.

I'm just curious as to your reasoning. If you're willing to spend the $185 for the TT, and you say you like the styling of the Lian-Li, why not spend the extra $14 to get the Lian-Li PC-75? If you don't want the window mod, save $10 and get the 7077A, which also features 120mm fans instead of 80mm.

Not to be bashing or anything, just really curious as to your reasoning ...


And yes, it appears that 2x512MB is pretty standard for new systems being built. Make sure to not waste an extra $100 getting the super-duper-ultra-low-latency-with-pretty-leds RAM, either ... save that $100 and invest it in a nice quality case, like ... I dunno ... the PC-75 ...

 

[Tommunist]

I like the larger cases just b/c it's easier to work in and I'm not at a loss for space for the tower. A flashy case doesn't bother me (I actually like such things). the other thing is that I like having my drives covered. Looks nicer I think. It's all personal preference obviously...