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A book which I think might make any atheist or agnostic reconsider their beliefs

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Originally posted by: bubbasmith99

you guys are really quick to dismiss anything even remotely religious. you're also showing lots of ignorance of the subject matter. revival of the body from a state of death is never doen via drugs. it's done via electric shocks or some other other method that brings the vital organs back to life. you think that if i was in a car accident and lost lots of blood and flatlined, they'd start pumping me full of LSD?

whatever. i'm just suggesting you check out the book. there's no need to be so rude about it.

Lol, you are the one showing the ignorance. Since you trying to change people's minds, you should know that "we are all just a series of complicated chemical reactions" can actually be a very strong argument for a monotheistic god. A quick overview. Mind states -> Brain states -> Chemical states -> Physics states... I wonder how physic laws came about...
 
Exactly.

But who's to know it IS made up, until you yourself experiences it? Or short of that, talk to people who have!

This (the book and the experiences told in it) are the closest most of us will ever get to the experience until our time comes.

I choose to believe their stories, and others can choose not to if they want.

As I am anti organized religion, for ME religion has nothing to do with my belief in this one way or the other. And the last thing I want to do is try and persuade someone to believe in something that I myself doubt!
Yea, I've read a book on the subject of life after death experiences, or near death experiences.
In fact my uncle had one he said. Typical moving towards the light scenario. Though, it all ended when he heard my aunts voice calling for him to come back. She was infact yelling at him in real life.

As for the afterlife, if there is one, everyone will "go" to it, regardless if they believe in any "organized" religion or not.
 
Originally posted by: MachFive
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Originally posted by: MachFive
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Originally posted by: MachFive
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Originally posted by: MachFive
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
/zips up Nomex suit
/sits down in front row

You may resuming your flaming, fundies.

- M4H

Does that Nomex suit protect against the mighty thunderbolt of Zeus?

No, but I'm wearing my Anti-Children's Storybook Creature amulet. That'll take care of him and those pesky dragons too.

- M4H

HAH! I've got the Ribbon! I'm protected against any and all status ailments, including mythical creatures! BEAT THAT!

I'm saving up for that. It's 2500 gold dubloons in the Western Jungle of Nile, from the old hermit in the cave. Have you found any place cheaper? I'll trade you three Stones of Jordan and a Big Handcannon of 0wnage +16 for it if you've got a dupe.

- M4H

Sorry, I'm holding out for a Breastplate of Flame. It's one step better than the Nomex; any flame attack will regenerate my HP!

Find me one of those, and you got yourself a deal.

Yeah, but you get -25% Agility from the breastplate. Since I use the Nomex, I can still use Critical Strike with my Assassin skill, and the instant-kill is more useful to me than regeneration.

- M4H

I don't rely on agility. As a sniper, I don't move too often, and when I do, I'm a half mile away from my target, so speed isn't of the greatest import.

Plus, If I get this breastplate, I can camp out in a FURNACE, or a bed of coals, or IN THE SUN, soaking up the HP. And my enemies can't even get near me. It'll be good fun.

Ah, but then you'll be cutting off your arctic advantage. What happens if your next away mission is in Canada? You'll nullify your defense bonus, and any Polar-attribute animals will deal an extra 10% damage.

- M4H
 
Originally posted by: OulOat
Originally posted by: bubbasmith99

you guys are really quick to dismiss anything even remotely religious. you're also showing lots of ignorance of the subject matter. revival of the body from a state of death is never doen via drugs. it's done via electric shocks or some other other method that brings the vital organs back to life. you think that if i was in a car accident and lost lots of blood and flatlined, they'd start pumping me full of LSD?

whatever. i'm just suggesting you check out the book. there's no need to be so rude about it.

Lol, you are the one showing the ignorance. Since you trying to change people's minds, you should know that "we are all just a series of complicated chemical reactions" can actually be a very strong argument for a monotheistic god. A quick overview. Mind states -> Brain states -> Chemical states -> Physics states... I wonder how physic laws came about...

that's not a strong argument at all, you couldn't even complete it. just we don't know how the laws of physics came about, doesn't mean that the existence of a monotheistic god is any more likely.
 
What about the scientific study that found the light at the end of the tunnel is your brains nerves firing rapidly as you are descending into clinical or real death....
 
Originally posted by: OulOat
Originally posted by: bubbasmith99

you guys are really quick to dismiss anything even remotely religious. you're also showing lots of ignorance of the subject matter. revival of the body from a state of death is never doen via drugs. it's done via electric shocks or some other other method that brings the vital organs back to life. you think that if i was in a car accident and lost lots of blood and flatlined, they'd start pumping me full of LSD?

whatever. i'm just suggesting you check out the book. there's no need to be so rude about it.

Lol, you are the one showing the ignorance. Since you trying to change people's minds, you should know that "we are all just a series of complicated chemical reactions" can actually be a very strong argument for a monotheistic god. A quick overview. Mind states -> Brain states -> Chemical states -> Physics states... I wonder how physic laws came about...

of course i know that. i just used that quotation because i remember somebody using it as the basis for their atheism in a thread a few weeks back. wow, i'm realy dumb and you're really smart. thanks for putting me in my place
rolleye.gif
 
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Originally posted by: MachFive
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Originally posted by: MachFive
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Originally posted by: MachFive
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Originally posted by: MachFive
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
/zips up Nomex suit
/sits down in front row

You may resuming your flaming, fundies.

- M4H

Does that Nomex suit protect against the mighty thunderbolt of Zeus?

No, but I'm wearing my Anti-Children's Storybook Creature amulet. That'll take care of him and those pesky dragons too.

- M4H

HAH! I've got the Ribbon! I'm protected against any and all status ailments, including mythical creatures! BEAT THAT!

I'm saving up for that. It's 2500 gold dubloons in the Western Jungle of Nile, from the old hermit in the cave. Have you found any place cheaper? I'll trade you three Stones of Jordan and a Big Handcannon of 0wnage +16 for it if you've got a dupe.

- M4H

Sorry, I'm holding out for a Breastplate of Flame. It's one step better than the Nomex; any flame attack will regenerate my HP!

Find me one of those, and you got yourself a deal.

Yeah, but you get -25% Agility from the breastplate. Since I use the Nomex, I can still use Critical Strike with my Assassin skill, and the instant-kill is more useful to me than regeneration.

- M4H

I don't rely on agility. As a sniper, I don't move too often, and when I do, I'm a half mile away from my target, so speed isn't of the greatest import.

Plus, If I get this breastplate, I can camp out in a FURNACE, or a bed of coals, or IN THE SUN, soaking up the HP. And my enemies can't even get near me. It'll be good fun.

Ah, but then you'll be cutting off your arctic advantage. What happens if your next away mission is in Canada? You'll nullify your defense bonus, and any Polar-attribute animals will deal an extra 10% damage.

- M4H

It's all in careful selection of which contracts I take up. I won't take any that pay less than 100,000 GP per hit, and it's been my experience that the only people willing to pay those kind of prices live in tropical areas. I think they're drug lords or Magi or something, but what my clients do when they're not funding my exploits doesn't really bother me.
 
Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
What about the scientific study that found the light at the end of the tunnel is your brains nerves firing rapidly as you are descending into clinical or real death....

Some people ignore information that does not fit their belief systems. This is why I try not to argue about beliefs.
 
This thread wasn't about our RPG-influenced lives? If it isn't about that, what IS it about, then?

Or maybe, our neffing was critical commentary on the utter pointlessness about arguing about subject like this when you're NEVER GOING TO CHANGE ANYONE'S OPINION.
 
Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
What about the scientific study that found the light at the end of the tunnel is your brains nerves firing rapidly as you are descending into clinical or real death....

what about the hundreds and hundreds of accounts that contain very similar details as in the following page:

http://www.near-death.com/forum.html

i hardly believe that "brain nerves firing rapidly" would be responsible for experiences as vivid and surreal as have been characterized by these numerous individuals.
 
Yes, this was discussed on Penn and Teller's Bullsh*t

Science can duplicate the exact same experiences by depriving the brain of oxygen (as it is deprived at death). A ready source of these experiments is when they spin potential pilots/astronauts around at high speed so they experience high G-forces... the blood is spun away from their brain, they lose consciousness from lack of oxygen, and have the same "near death experiences."

Christians who want to believe that someone made it to heaven, then had to return to their body when someone saved their lives, are saying that "God took them to heaven, but made a mistake." What?! God didn't see that someone was going to administer an electro-cardio shock?! (or whatever they're called)
 
Originally posted by: DrPizza
Yes, this was discussed on Penn and Teller's Bullsh*t

Science can duplicate the exact same experiences by depriving the brain of oxygen (as it is deprived at death). A ready source of these experiments is when they spin potential pilots/astronauts around at high speed so they experience high G-forces... the blood is spun away from their brain, they lose consciousness from lack of oxygen, and have the same "near death experiences."

Christians who want to believe that someone made it to heaven, then had to return to their body when someone saved their lives, are saying that "God took them to heaven, but made a mistake." What?! God didn't see that someone was going to administer an electro-cardio shock?! (or whatever they're called)

I thought God didn't make mistakes? Isn't the inability to make mistakes necessary for him to be infallible?
 
Originally posted by: bubbasmith99
Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
What about the scientific study that found the light at the end of the tunnel is your brains nerves firing rapidly as you are descending into clinical or real death....

what about the hundreds and hundreds of accounts that contain very similar details as in the following page:

http://www.near-death.com/forum.html

i hardly believe that "brain nerves firing rapidly" would be responsible for experiences as vivid and surreal as have been characterized by these numerous individuals.

ever had a nightmare or a dream that was so good that you did not want to wake up?
 
Originally posted by: MachFive
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Originally posted by: MachFive
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Originally posted by: MachFive
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Originally posted by: MachFive
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Originally posted by: MachFive
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
/zips up Nomex suit
/sits down in front row

You may resuming your flaming, fundies.

- M4H

Does that Nomex suit protect against the mighty thunderbolt of Zeus?

No, but I'm wearing my Anti-Children's Storybook Creature amulet. That'll take care of him and those pesky dragons too.

- M4H

HAH! I've got the Ribbon! I'm protected against any and all status ailments, including mythical creatures! BEAT THAT!

I'm saving up for that. It's 2500 gold dubloons in the Western Jungle of Nile, from the old hermit in the cave. Have you found any place cheaper? I'll trade you three Stones of Jordan and a Big Handcannon of 0wnage +16 for it if you've got a dupe.

- M4H

Sorry, I'm holding out for a Breastplate of Flame. It's one step better than the Nomex; any flame attack will regenerate my HP!

Find me one of those, and you got yourself a deal.

Yeah, but you get -25% Agility from the breastplate. Since I use the Nomex, I can still use Critical Strike with my Assassin skill, and the instant-kill is more useful to me than regeneration.

- M4H

I don't rely on agility. As a sniper, I don't move too often, and when I do, I'm a half mile away from my target, so speed isn't of the greatest import.

Plus, If I get this breastplate, I can camp out in a FURNACE, or a bed of coals, or IN THE SUN, soaking up the HP. And my enemies can't even get near me. It'll be good fun.

Ah, but then you'll be cutting off your arctic advantage. What happens if your next away mission is in Canada? You'll nullify your defense bonus, and any Polar-attribute animals will deal an extra 10% damage.

- M4H

It's all in careful selection of which contracts I take up. I won't take any that pay less than 100,000 GP per hit, and it's been my experience that the only people willing to pay those kind of prices live in tropical areas. I think they're drug lords or Magi or something, but what my clients do when they're not funding my exploits doesn't really bother me.

I always try to make that little extra effort to be friendly. Ask them how business is going, know what's going on in their field, if there's any big scores I should be on the lookout for. Now that I mention it, Count Escobar in the South Islands has been looking for a good cover man for a few black ops coming up in a week or such. Keep your schedule clear - he's proven to be quite generous with his funding, and he even offers cuts of the take. Last time it was a Porsche transport - that got me a new 911 Turbo on top of my payment. 😀

- M4H
 
Originally posted by: MachFive
Originally posted by: DrPizza
Yes, this was discussed on Penn and Teller's Bullsh*t

Science can duplicate the exact same experiences by depriving the brain of oxygen (as it is deprived at death). A ready source of these experiments is when they spin potential pilots/astronauts around at high speed so they experience high G-forces... the blood is spun away from their brain, they lose consciousness from lack of oxygen, and have the same "near death experiences."

Christians who want to believe that someone made it to heaven, then had to return to their body when someone saved their lives, are saying that "God took them to heaven, but made a mistake." What?! God didn't see that someone was going to administer an electro-cardio shock?! (or whatever they're called)

I thought God didn't make mistakes? Isn't the inability to make mistakes necessary for him to be infallible?

Yeah, didn't you people watch Dogma?

- M4H
 
Why don't you guys stop flaming this guy for just presenting to you a book that tells of information and events that may lead you to change your beliefs???

Man, you people are fvcking harsh. I hope you all burn in Hell for being so closed-minded.
 
Originally posted by: WarmAndSCSI
Why don't you guys stop flaming this guy for just presenting to you a book that tells of information and events that may lead you to change your beliefs???

Hey, and while we're recommending children's tales, I suggest the Three Little Pigs, Goldilocks and the Three Bears, and Little Red Riding Hood.

Man, you people are fvcking harsh. I hope you all burn in Hell for being so closed-minded.

Yeah, but by that time I'm have my Breastplate of Flame, and I'll just absorb the fire damage. 😛

- M4H
 
Let me just ask one question.

Of those who are saying this is all total bull sh!t how many of your are afraid to die or don't want to think about it?

For me, reading this book took away any fear I had of dieing, even though I don't believe there is some supreme being running things or a heaven waiting for me.

So for that one thing, it was worth the read IMO.

Everyone who reported these experiences, said it was a GOOD experience!

However, in the second book "Reflections on Life After Life" some people who had tried to tale their own life reported their experience as BAD.

Many of us have toyed with the idea of killing ourselves at one time or another, but after reading that book, I would NEVER EVER kill myself.

So for that reason alone, I think the second book is one that people SHOULD read and hopefully BELIEVE
 
Originally posted by: WarmAndSCSI
Why don't you guys stop flaming this guy for just presenting to you a book that tells of information and events that may lead you to change your beliefs???

Man, you people are fvcking harsh. I hope you all burn in Hell for being so closed-minded.







Man, who's being harsh now?





😉
 
Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Let me just ask one question.

Of those who are saying this is all total bull sh!t how many of your are afraid to die or don't want to think about it?

Given that I've got a genetic heart problem that could theoretically leave me dead in my sleep any night of my life; no, I'm not afraid of death.

- M4H
 
Originally posted by: feralkid
Originally posted by: WarmAndSCSI
Why don't you guys stop flaming this guy for just presenting to you a book that tells of information and events that may lead you to change your beliefs???

Man, you people are fvcking harsh. I hope you all burn in Hell for being so closed-minded.

Man, who's being harsh now?

😉

Been to Hell. Nice place.

Thanks for the excellent travel recommendation, WarmAndSCSI. It's quite the beautiful little town.

- M4H
 
Originally posted by: WarmAndSCSI
Why don't you guys stop flaming this guy for just presenting to you a book that tells of information and events that may lead you to change your beliefs???

Man, you people are fvcking harsh. I hope you all burn in Hell for being so closed-minded.

Are you a Christian?
 
For me, reading this book took away any fear I had of dieing

I believe that sums it up pretty well. You believe this easily explained away (with science) trash because it brings you comfort and relieves your fear of death. It's much the same as millions of people do all over the world with non-sensical religions which are, at best, obviously contradictory and designed to meet needs such as this book has met for you.
I don't have respect for people like that. It's brave and strong people who can deal with it without a crutch
 
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