A Blow Against BS Music Copyright Cases

[Perknose]

I am beyond pleased these two did this! Tin-eared judges deciding these cases is just plain dumb. Artists of all stripes, not just musicians, "borrow" from each other and from those who have come before. Artistic "progress" is a communal and collaborative effort, and always has been!

"Two programmer-musicians wrote every possible MIDI melody in existence to a hard drive, copyrighted the whole thing, and then released it all to the public in an attempt to stop musicians from getting sued.

Programmer, musician, and copyright attorney Damien Riehl, along with fellow musician/programmer Noah Rubin, sought to stop copyright lawsuits that they believe stifle the creative freedom of artists.


Often in copyright cases for song melodies, if the artist being sued for infringement could have possibly had access to the music they're accused of copying—even if it was something they listened to once—they can be accused of "subconsciously" infringing on the original content. One of the most notorious examples of this is Tom Petty's claim that Sam Smith's “Stay With Me” sounded too close to Petty's “I Won’t Back Down." Smith eventually had to give Petty co-writing credits on their own chart-topping song, which entitled Petty to royalties.

Defending a case like that in court can cost millions of dollars in legal fees, and the outcome is never assured. Riehl and Rubin hope that by releasing the melodies publicly, they'll prevent a lot of these cases from standing a chance in court."

 

[Blackjack200]

Everyone loves to mock Vanilla Ice for ripping off Queen but honestly, who freaking cares? It's a different song that millions of people enjoyed, most of them probably never having heard the Queen song. I've always hated this shit. Get rid of copyrights entirely.

 

[fskimospy]

I always found it amusing/enraging that if you cured cancer tomorrow and patented it you could exclusively profit from your invention for the next 20 years. If you wrote a story about a fictional doctor who fictionally cured cancer though you could exclusively profit from that for the rest of your life and then your family could profit from it for an additional 70 years after your death.

Makes sense to me.

 

[pmv]

To a degree pop and rock songs are always going to have some element that sounds like something else - you notice it all the damn time if you are a pop/rock/rap fan who is getting on a bit (eventually everything sounds like a remix or cover version of something you already know). And often the actual artists involved don't bother making a big deal out of it because they know full well they have nicked bits from someone else.

Who gets sued seems to depend largely on the relative power and greed of different artists' record companies.

Recently listened to a podcast about the pressing question of who wrote "Who Let The Dogs Out" (not a song I care for, as it happens). And, good-grief, it goes back through about twenty different artists (and sportspeople!), everyone of them with some partial claim to the credit, till you just give up in confusion.

 

[pmv]

I always found it amusing/enraging that if you cured cancer tomorrow and patented it you could exclusively profit from your invention for the next 20 years. If you wrote a story about a fictional doctor who fictionally cured cancer though you could exclusively profit from that for the rest of your life and then your family could profit from it for an additional 70 years after your death.

Makes sense to me.

Worse - chances are before that term is up the rent-seeking industry will have changed the law to extend it even further ('70 years after the death of the longest-lived of your clones or AI avatars'). All depends on whether Mickey Mouse is in danger of going out of copyright, probably.

 

[fskimospy]

Worse - chances are before that term is up the rent-seeking industry will have changed the law to extend it even further ('70 years after the death of the longest-lived of your clones or AI avatars'). All depends on whether Mickey Mouse is in danger of going out of copyright, probably.

I'm not sure if you know this but we will be testing your theory relatively shortly, haha.

Mickey Mouse will be public domain soon—here’s what that means

The Internet stopped another copyright extension without firing a shot.

arstechnica.com

On January 1, 2024, we'll see the expiration of the copyright for Steamboat Willie—and with it Disney's claim to the film's star, Mickey Mouse.

 

[Zorba]

I always found it amusing/enraging that if you cured cancer tomorrow and patented it you could exclusively profit from your invention for the next 20 years. If you wrote a story about a fictional doctor who fictionally cured cancer though you could exclusively profit from that for the rest of your life and then your family could profit from it for an additional 70 years after your death.

Makes sense to me.

Don't forget, protecting patents is 100% civil, while copyrights can be protected criminally too.

 

[Zorba]

I'm not sure if you know this but we will be testing your theory relatively shortly, haha.

Mickey Mouse will be public domain soon—here’s what that means

The Internet stopped another copyright extension without firing a shot.

arstechnica.com

Yeah, thankfully, we actually allowed somethings to enter the public domain last year. He's hoping congress doesn't cave again before 2024.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

meh - there is always a line... the problem is finding that line and figuring out what is acceptable.

Similar shit has been discussed/debated in terms of stand-up comedy as well. Carlos Mencia took a HUGE nose-dive after he was accused of copying jokes.

 

[pmv]

meh - there is always a line... the problem is finding that line and figuring out what is acceptable.

Similar shit has been discussed/debated in terms of stand-up comedy as well. Carlos Mencia took a HUGE nose-dive after he was accused of copying jokes.

I think there's a subtle distinction between monetary arguments and arguments about credit and 'respect'. Of course they blur into each other. It gets more complicated again when it gets mixed up with power differences, where some groups feel they've been collectively ripped-off for a long time.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Everyone loves to mock Vanilla Ice for ripping off Queen but honestly, who freaking cares? It's a different song that millions of people enjoyed, most of them probably never having heard the Queen song. I've always hated this shit. Get rid of copyrights entirely.

Queen cares.

Artists should be able to protect their creations, which are their brand and IP. Inspiration vs plagiarism is a fine line.

Take the OP example. The first time I heard that Sam Smith song, I was like, this is fvcking Tom Petty. The same thing with that Lady Gaga song that was almost beat for beat Madonna.

 

[Zorba]

Queen cares.

Artists should be able to protect their creations, which are their brand and IP. Inspiration vs plagiarism is a fine line.

Take the OP example. The first time I heard that Sam Smith song, I was like, this is fvcking Tom Petty. The same thing with that Lady Gaga song that was almost beat for beat Madonna.

Ice Ice Baby is a good example of why copyright should end after some reasonable time period. That song added more to the culture of the US than Under Pressure did. Of course, those were so close together that Under Pressure would still be under copyright under any reasonable law, but it does illustrate how art is cumulative.

 

[Blackjack200]

Queen cares.

Artists should be able to protect their creations, which are their brand and IP. Inspiration vs plagiarism is a fine line.

Take the OP example. The first time I heard that Sam Smith song, I was like, this is fvcking Tom Petty. The same thing with that Lady Gaga song that was almost beat for beat Madonna.

Artists imitate each other all the time. Hell they imitate themselves all the time. Cue the Nickelback jokes. Ice Ice Baby does nothing to Queen's ability to perform and market Under Pressure. That song did nothing to Queen's brand. How many musicians use the same chord progression, similar beats, etc. It's insane.

 

[darkswordsman17]

You guys really need to update your knowledge. Suge Knight took care of the Ice Ice Baby issue.

As for the OP, nice thought but I have a hunch that it won't matter in a court, nor will it matter when the music industry works other routes to push their bullshit. They're still trying to get State AGs to do their bidding. And they're still trying to push arbitrary bullshit (see MQA) to try and rope people back into DRM.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Ice Ice Baby is a good example of why copyright should end after some reasonable time period. That song added more to the culture of the US than Under Pressure did. Of course, those were so close together that Under Pressure would still be under copyright under any reasonable law, but it does illustrate how art is cumulative.

Depends on who you ask. Under Pressure was a collaboration between two of the most iconic artists of the 70s. I don’t see Hollywood ever creating a Vanilla Ice biopic.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Artists imitate each other all the time. Hell they imitate themselves all the time. Cue the Nickelback jokes. Ice Ice Baby does nothing to Queen's ability to perform and market Under Pressure. That song did nothing to Queen's brand. How many musicians use the same chord progression, similar beats, etc. It's insane.

Given the proximity of Ice Ice Baby to Under Pressure, its fair for them to expect some royalties.

Compare Vanilla Ice to say the collaboration between Aerosmith and Run DMC or Anthrax and Public Enemy.

 

[fskimospy]

Depends on who you ask. Under Pressure was a collaboration between two of the most iconic artists of the 70s. I don’t see Hollywood ever creating a Vanilla Ice biopic.

Never say never:

Vanilla Ice Biopic Happening with Dave Franco in the Lead?

A new production listing suggests that Dave Franco is set to play Vanilla Ice in a new biopic chronicling the rapper's career.

movieweb.com

 

[Starbuck1975]

Never say never:

Vanilla Ice Biopic Happening with Dave Franco in the Lead?

A new production listing suggests that Dave Franco is set to play Vanilla Ice in a new biopic chronicling the rapper's career.

movieweb.com

Goddamnit

 

[Atreus21]

I'm not sure if you know this but we will be testing your theory relatively shortly, haha.

Mickey Mouse will be public domain soon—here’s what that means

The Internet stopped another copyright extension without firing a shot.

arstechnica.com

So that's why Iger resigned.

 

[hal2kilo]

My sweet lord!

 

[Vic]

Artists should get copyright protections for their original work for a reasonable period of time. What they should NOT get is copyright protections that 1) act as if their work was 100% original, and 2) last for their lifetimes plus another 70 years for their heirs.

 

[nakedfrog]

Ice Ice Baby is a good example of why copyright should end after some reasonable time period. That song added more to the culture of the US than Under Pressure did. Of course, those were so close together that Under Pressure would still be under copyright under any reasonable law, but it does illustrate how art is cumulative.

The fuck did you just say? Meet me by the flagpole, 3PM.

 

[Zorba]

The fuck did you just say? Meet me by the flagpole, 3PM.

Not at saying it's better, but I think it is more ingrained into culture than Under Pressure.

Sampling of beats is also extremely common in rap.

 

[Zorba]

So that's why Iger resigned.

Iger leaving will probably significantly hurt any extension push, since he was pretty connected politically.

 

[BUTCH1]

Ice Ice Baby is a good example of why copyright should end after some reasonable time period. That song added more to the culture of the US than Under Pressure did. Of course, those were so close together that Under Pressure would still be under copyright under any reasonable law, but it does illustrate how art is cumulative.

"Ice ice baby" is a perfect example of going too far, it takes the entire bass line, note for note and then robs the piano hook as well. It's not for anyone to accurately judge how much "culture" it add's, I'd say not much, if Vanilla ice actually credited Queen/Bowie from the get-go the whole thing might have been avoided. The OP's example of Petty's "don't back down" I consider trivial, only a couple of similar cord changes should not even be close to "stealing" anything, Smith's song does not sound at all like Petty's.