A bit sad and disappointed

[5150Joker]

I always felt HA's benchmarks were probably somewhat telling of reality (despite my parody page and his lower than usual numbers) and if you extrapolate Sander's benchmark percentage differences with the new info. about these cards (higher core + new drivers) then the percentage differences he listed between the 7800 GTX and X1800XT aren't too far off in some cases. Because of this information, I wasn't expecting much out of the R520 and while it did do nicely in some games like BF2 (my fav. game) and FEAR (overrated game) the rest of the results were just so-so. Where the disappointment really sets in is when you think about how most (or was it all?) these reviews used a standard clocked 7800 GTX against the R520. Most people here are probably well aware that the retail GTX cards are clocked at 450 and above now for the core and 1300 memory so if you take that into account, the GTX would likely have closed the gap in BF2/FEAR and widened it in other games where it was already leading.

My biggest disappointment with this card is the appalling OpenGL performance. Given that this is a fairly new and advanced architecture I was hoping ATi would start fresh with OpenGL and catch up to nVidia but alas that wish did not materialize. Not only is ATi behind, but it gets thorougly beaten by the 7800 series in all OGL titles. So for those of us that are avid id engine fans and waiting on Quake 4 and Quake Wars (I'm highly anticipating this title), the GTX/GT are the only choices for us since ATi isn't even a worthy competitor.

As for IQ enhancements, DriverHeaven (aka ATi Heaven) noted that the HQ AF provided no noticeable real world IQ gains so that seems like a fairly useless feature. I have yet to see any HDR+AA performance figures so can't say much about that yet although ATi's HDR figures aren't any better than the 7800 GTX thus far so I'm not expecting much. Adaptive AA is nice but still doesn't look better than TSAA so they're about even there with nVidia still taking the IQ win with 8X+SS.

Lastly, factor in price, availability, driver refinement, SLI flexiblity and availability of nforce 4 mainboards everywhere and we see that ATi just falls flat on its face. Well here's hoping for a better next round - ATi needs to get that 32 pp R580 out the door ASAP if it wants to remain competitive.

 

[Duvie]

Join the club....

All the hype and then this....

The only ppl revelling in this has to be die-hard Nvidiots at guru3d.com. I was hoping the AVIVO would have been better, since that is a feature I would be more inclined to use My PVP is broken by those #$%#% at Nvidia. I also would have liked better opengl performance for some of my CAD apps. I guess I will look to Nvidia still when I switch over to pci-express soon...

 

[SickBeast]

I'm not upgrading my x800pro to this; it doesn't make sense. Hopefully R580 will have 32 pipes and turn things around for ATI. That's unlikely IMO tho; nVidia surely has a 32 pipe card coming as well, and their core architecture has proven itself to be very solid.

Duvie, I heard mention about ATI rewriting their OpenGL drivers, but I'm guessing they just never ended up doing it. They have always sucked at OpenGL. I remember that my old ATI Xpression3D Rage2 couldn't even run Quake!

 

[ZobarStyl]

We can hope SickBeast...but the chances of a 32 pipe R580 being here before 07 are pretty much nil. If it took them this long to put out a 16 pipe card, doubling the pipes is going to be a long hard road.

 

[compgeek89]

Im just wanting that FEAR performance outta my GTX

 

[Hacp]

I think many of you had too much expectations.... Probably from the 2004 rumors of 32 pipes, etc. My expectations were far lower. I was expecting something like a X800XL vs 6800GT performance gap. Thats almost exactly what happened here.

The important thing is price now. The XLs are apparently subpar, although they do offer better IQ than the 7800GT. What people will be waiting for is the Xts, which is "supposed" to come out in the beginning of november. People should defenetly wait for prices to drop before they buy the r520 series right now.

 

[Killrose]

I'm going to give ATi at least 2 driver releases before exacting my final opinion, but my initial opinion is dissapointment. And Sassens H/A benchmarks were way off if you look at his High res AA/AF graphs.

 

[Elcs]

I only hope the 7800GTX isnt the best around (or only marginally defeated) when I upgrade mid to late 06.

I need choice, competition to drive down prices, make me choose!!!!

Used 3DFX (voodoo rush), TNT1 (Nvidia), Kyro2 (dunno), GF4 ti4400 (Nvidia) and 9800 Pro (ATI)....

So Im quite versitile in my choices for my PC.

Just dont make my choice too easy

 

[apoppin]

i'm neither sad nor disappointed . . . the r520 is a fine competitor to the 7800 series . . . as always: Pick one . . . you can't go way wrong either way.

i am still hoping for ANY top card in AGP.

 

[sandorski]

This generation is like the last, Competitive and late, but that's about it. I have a feeling both Nvidia and ATI are holding back some monster cards, although Nvidia will likely have them available right away and ATI, well, you know. Nvidia still needs to fill out their budget lines which I'd expect to happen soon.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: apoppin
i'm neither sad nor disappointed . . . the r520 is a fine competitor to the 7800 series . . . as always: Pick one . . . you can't go way wrong either way.

i am still hoping for ANY top card in AGP.

:beer::thumbsup:

 

[johnnqq]

we shouldn't judge anything untill a driver update or two

 

[Greenman]

Duvie, what cad apps do you use? The two I use don't even support Open gl, and they do alright. Even a very complex 3d model renders in just a few seconds. Raytracing is what brings my system to it's knees, thank God I almost never have a need to do it.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: Greenman
Duvie, what cad apps do you use? The two I use don't even support Open gl, and they do alright. Even a very complex 3d model renders in just a few seconds. Raytracing is what brings my system to it's knees, thank God I almost never have a need to do it.

I use ADT2004 w/ Viz renderer and 3dsmax 7....I also use a soft modded 6800NU to a Quadro FX4000....As far as I know I have opengl 2.0 support

 

[ubergeekmeister]

Getting a 7800GT now. ATI has dissapointed me.

 

[rise]

i think the HQ AF looks fantastic....in screenshots.

as said, how much will anyone notice that in gameplay?

 

[n7]

Honestly, i am disappointed too.

The way i see it, the cheaper of the two cards is basically the way to go, & i think the 7800GTX has more OCing headroom.

One thing that's becoming more & more a factor: picking the card based on what games you play/want to play :Q

The gap between ATi/nVidia performance on D3D vs. OGL is becoming larger & larger!

So for those wanting to play F.E.A.R., the X1800XT is clearly a better choice.
For those wanting to play Quake 4, the 7800GTX will be the best by far.

It's pretty much whatever games you play the most, or if you play lots of OGL & D3D games, well then it's whatever is cheapest.

 

[junkyardDawg]

Not so much disappointed as getting a dose of reality

x1800 was about what I expected. ATI nudged it's way to the top of the heap but you've got to think nVidia is ready with an answer. By the time XT is available nVidia's next gen will be just around the corner(hopefully r580 too).

x1600 was a BIG disappointment, almost a step backward

I don't see anything worth getting except x1800xt, and since I waited this long I'll go ahead and wait on r580 and g72. What's another 4 months?

 

[ayabe]

The only thing I'm bummed about is the XL, I've never bought "high-end" cards just whichever card was the best bang for the buck. That's what I expected the XL to be, instead we get a barely par with the competition card that is(or will be.. :thumbsdown: ) more expensive. NVIDIA already has strong market penetration with the 7800GT and you can get one for less than $350 if you know where to look. ATI needs to get these XL cards to retail with an MSRP of $350 or this card is a complete dud.

 

[hans030390]

Considering the cards have less pipes...they do perform well, though the prices are very questionable.

Still, I was disappointed at the benchies...Oh well. Not like I can afford 7 series or x1000 series cards anyways

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Duvie
Join the club....

All the hype and then this....

The only ppl revelling in this has to be die-hard Nvidiots at guru3d.com. I was hoping the AVIVO would have been better, since that is a feature I would be more inclined to use My PVP is broken by those #$%#% at Nvidia. I also would have liked better opengl performance for some of my CAD apps. I guess I will look to Nvidia still when I switch over to pci-express soon...

Head over to Rage3d, those guys are pretty happy!

 

[monster64]

You people just dont frickin get it. The only, and I repeat ONLY reason the X1800XT beat the 7800 GTX in F.E.A.R. by such a large amount is because of it's 512MB of memory, just like X800XL 512MB would also be almost as good as a 7800 GTX in F.E.A.R. When 512MB 7800 GTXs come out, you will see the same kind of results. I mean be serious, in some cases (1600x1200 x4 aa/x8 af) the X1800XT was about 200% better. I mean without that extra 256MB of memory you can't even dream about it winning by more than 20%.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Duvie
Join the club....

All the hype and then this....

The only ppl revelling in this has to be die-hard Nvidiots at guru3d.com. I was hoping the AVIVO would have been better, since that is a feature I would be more inclined to use My PVP is broken by those #$%#% at Nvidia. I also would have liked better opengl performance for some of my CAD apps. I guess I will look to Nvidia still when I switch over to pci-express soon...

Head over to Rage3d, those guys are pretty happy!

Yeah for some reason, much excitement over the "performance crown"

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

i think what we've seen in this product cycle from Nvidia and Ati is how much Nvidia as a whole has matured. no paper launches, great cards at decent prices, and a good product line from the high end to the lowend. they are simpling running on all cylinders at this point, and you know what they deserve the praise they are getting this time around. they have made a good line of products and have had stellar support the whole way through. Ati has just stumbled, and they deserve a lot of criticism they are getting right now. This product is too little to late, there is no compelling reason for anyone who owns a 6800 or higher to upgrade at this point IMHO.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: monster64
You people just dont frickin get it. The only, and I repeat ONLY reason the X1800XT beat the 7800 GTX in F.E.A.R. by such a large amount is because of it's 512MB of memory, just like X800XL 512MB would also be almost as good as a 7800 GTX in F.E.A.R. When 512MB 7800 GTXs come out, you will see the same kind of results. I mean be serious, in some cases (1600x1200 x4 aa/x8 af) the X1800XT was about 200% better. I mean without that extra 256MB of memory you can't even dream about it winning by more than 20%.

Um actually that AND the fact the DEMO leans toward X series and X1 series. Monolith and Nvidia said, the final results will differ ALOT from what you people are seeing right now. The 7 series and probably the 6 series will be optimised for the final "finished" version.

The only thing 512mb is giving massive advantage is CoD2, and BF2 where you will likely to see performance boosts from 512mb GTXs.