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A $35,000 MSRP Base Honda Civic (Gas Engine)

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Originally posted by: venkman

I remember playing around with a China car at least years auto show. Dear god, what a piece of junk. I could of literally ripped the side view mirror off of the car with just a little bit of effort. I would hate to be in that thing when another car hits it at 60mph.

It's funny you say that. My friend's wife had a Pontiac Grand Am (2001 I believe) where the mirror just fell off on its own when a door was shut (happened around 2003). This was completely unprovoked on a garage kept car. Talk about quality.

 
Originally posted by: shocksyde
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Another problem is that GM already has about five retired workers for every one worker on the production line, a problem expected to worsen. Nearly two-thirds of GM's current employees will be eligible to retire within five years, and about 30 percent will be eligible at Ford and Chrysler, says the UAW.

Wow.

This is why I feel pensions are just a ponzi scheme. I feel the same way about Social Security. They are talking your money and promising a return. Only they spend your money and just hope not everyone cashes out at once. Once that happens the whole thing falls apart.

It's illegal for me to do it, but legal for big corps and the government to do it.

I say let them fall. I work in michigan and if I said that there I would be killed, but it's true. Giving them money is not going to fix them any more then it would fix a drug addict. It just prolongs the death.

I looked hard at new cars when i bought my car a few months back. I bought a toyota. For the price and quality nothing came close.
 
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: venkman
This is the future you all wanted. Without the domestic competition and with suppliers dropping like flies, the foreign car companies will not be able to meet the demand of the new market share meaning prices will skyrocket for cars. Without the UAW around, the foreign car companies will go slash and burn on their own employees salaries and benefits.

Supply Goes Down, Demand Goes Up means car prices sky rocket.


Enjoy

We will be ok eventually, soon we will be able to afford the $8,000 cars coming from China. Wal mart is your new used car salesman.

EDIT: I want to make one thing clear, I hope this is a nominee for the ownage of the year thread with me being the one owned. If that happens, that means things will be ok, but right now, I just don't see it.

I would rather that unions here NOT cease and desist. It's the fact that they turned into pigs and started swimming in their own greed. The Auto unions need to concede some of the wealth, and get with what other companies have had to do to survive. For one, the overly generous retiree benefits have to be axed.

that was done in 2005 iirc.
Taken from an article written 9/2007

The automakers say health-care premiums add $1,200 to $1,500 to the cost of every car, much of that to pay for benefits for retired workers - a cost their competitors don't face because they have few retirees.

" Health care and other benefits for retired workers, not those for current workers, is what makes the U.S. companies noncompetitive, Harbour said.

Toyota, Honda and others offer comparable benefits to their employees" but not to retirees, he said. The American companies say they will need to spend up to $100 billion on future health insurance for retirees.

Another problem is that GM already has about five retired workers for every one worker on the production line, a problem expected to worsen. Nearly two-thirds of GM's current employees will be eligible to retire within five years, and about 30 percent will be eligible at Ford and Chrysler, says the UAW.

This growing legion of retired workers is living far longer than past actuarial studies predicted. And they are spending more on medical procedures
http://www.cleveland.com/onthe...092007_remedy_for.html

First of all, those republican senators said it added $2000 to the average car. The UAW says it is $600. The article you brought up says $1200-1500. Who has the real numbers?

They are right about healthcare for retirees, just about the only difference in pay between the foreign transplants and the UAW is this cost. It amounts to $16/hr. in the differential. After my union brothers "the pigs" negotiated their third concessionary agreement in the last 7 years they negotiated having the union run the healthcare. After a one time payment VEBA will run the retiree healthcare by itself. This was supposed to happen in 2010. After which "the pigs" will be paid about $3/hr. more then Toyota in fully loaded labor costs. I fully expect any bailout to hinge on this and the other concessions taking place immediately.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/...e/18267160/detail.html
 
Originally posted by: venkman
This is the future you all wanted. Without the domestic competition and with suppliers dropping like flies, the foreign car companies will not be able to meet the demand of the new market share meaning prices will skyrocket for cars. Without the UAW around, the foreign car companies will go slash and burn on their own employees salaries and benefits.

Supply Goes Down, Demand Goes Up means car prices sky rocket.


Enjoy

We will be ok eventually, soon we will be able to afford the $8,000 cars coming from China. Wal mart is your new used car salesman.

EDIT: I want to make one thing clear, I hope this is a nominee for the ownage of the year thread with me being the one owned. If that happens, that means things will be ok, but right now, I just don't see it.

Your post reaks of ignorance.
  1. No GM, Ford, or Chrysler = No unions. In otherwords, if the unions keep eating the hand that feeds it, there will be no hand left and everyone dies.
  2. Get rid of the unions and save the big three. Keep the unions and you kill (get rid of) the big three.
  3. It is high taxes, and overpaid underperforming union labor the is causing GM to spend more on labor than it does on raw material.
  4. Last I checked, the Civic came off assembly lines in Japan. It is the Honda Accord that is produced in Marysville, Ohio (I have driven past it a few times).
  5. IF you kill the unions, at least there are still jobs and cars produced by American Companies in American Factories.

    If the unions are gone, at least then you save GM and workers have some pay vs. no pay, welfare, and the unemployment line.
  6. In Brazil, Ford recently built one of the most modern high tech factories in the world. Ford execs said, they would have rather built it here in the US; but the Taxes would have cost them too much. (I can give you a link, if you request).
  7. The big three are forced to keep paying people even through they do not work for them anymore. That's just wrong. All other Car Companies do not have to do this.
  8. Union contracts often state that if a man punches in and off the clock and logs only 5min of labor, he's required to receive pay for a minimum of four hours of work. BS.
  9. I'll post more when I wake up and my mind is a bit fresher. Just hope by then the unions will be a thing of the past. Good bye.
 
I think Unions are a good idea, but not massive independent unions like this. The reason the South took off, to some extent, after World War 2, was because everyone came South to escape Union fees.

What needs to be done is some sort of intermediary, private union that can act as a spokesperson, but doesn't have such encompassing authority over the workforce. Apart from hardcore unionist, BoomerD, the people I work with right now are very disgruntled with their union, and unions in general.

I have said it before, and I'll say it again, Unions are nasty leeches, encouraged only by people who don't understand them, rich people who think they're supporting a good cause, and union mob thugs.
 
there are hundreds of auto manufacturers. Only 2 are in trouble. I don't understand why the other manufacturers would just fill the void?
 
The big three fucked up, you would think with all those SUV's they sold they would be able to survive, guess not. It's funny, the SUV/Big car trend that got American manufacturers sales ended up being part of their demise.
 
Originally posted by: PricklyPete
Originally posted by: venkman

I remember playing around with a China car at least years auto show. Dear god, what a piece of junk. I could of literally ripped the side view mirror off of the car with just a little bit of effort. I would hate to be in that thing when another car hits it at 60mph.

It's funny you say that. My friend's wife had a Pontiac Grand Am (2001 I believe) where the mirror just fell off on its own when a door was shut (happened around 2003). This was completely unprovoked on a garage kept car. Talk about quality.

There is a small difference between the bad luck of getting stuck with a damaged vehicle that a customer purchased compared to a vehicle that the manufacture can CHOOSE to show at an international auto show.
 
Originally posted by: venkman
There is a small difference between the bad luck of getting stuck with a damaged vehicle that a customer purchased and a vehicle that the manufacture can CHOOSE to show at an international auto show.

English please.
 
Originally posted by: sdifox
Originally posted by: venkman
There is a small difference between the bad luck of getting stuck with a damaged vehicle that a customer purchased and a vehicle that the manufacture can CHOOSE to show at an international auto show.

English please.

I'll try to use smaller words 😉

1)Customer buys car, car damaged, doesn't mean every car is like that.

2)Auto Company showcases their cars at internation auto show. They make sure to bring the best representation of their car. The best possible Chinese Car (I can't remember the name off the top of my head) is a horrible, underbuilt, piece of crap.
 
Originally posted by: venkman
Originally posted by: sdifox
Originally posted by: venkman
There is a small difference between the bad luck of getting stuck with a damaged vehicle that a customer purchased and a vehicle that the manufacture can CHOOSE to show at an international auto show.

English please.

I'll try to use smaller words 😉

1)Customer buys car, car damaged, doesn't mean every car is like that.

2)Auto Company showcases their cars at internation auto show. They make sure to bring the best representation of their car. The best possible Chinese Car (I can't remember the name off the top of my head) is a horrible, underbuilt, piece of crap.

Let me edit it for you.

There is a small difference between a customer being stuck with a lemon and a manufacturer hand picked for international auto show.


 
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