9800GX2 vs 512mb 8800GTS in SLI

[MTDEW]

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: MTDEW
Just for reference for people doing a search later on, the MSI P7N SLI Platinum will still have a PCI slot free if you're using single slot cards like a reference 8800GT cards.LINK

Of course as i mentioned earlier, i'd be using 512mb 8800GTS cards which are dual slot cards, so the MSI P7N Diamond isnt a choice for me.

Ive come down to two choices, the ASUS P5N-T Deluxe or the MSI P7N Diamond.

I'm leaning toward the MSI P7N Diamond because i like idea that it comes with a X-Fi Xtreme tha uses a PCI Express x1 slot for just $10 more than the asus board and the MSi gets good reviews.

I may already have a PCI X-fi card, but i'll bet that X-Fi PCI Express x1 card will come in real handy for future upgrades where usable PCI slots seem to becoming less and less.

Im reading a thread at the Xtremesystems forum about the MSI P7N Diamond to see how others are doing with the board b4 i decide.

Hmmmm out of all 3 of those choices the P7N SLI Platinum is actually your best bet for running an X-Fi with dual or single cards. As long as you can run SLI in PCI-E slots 1 and 2, that last PCI slot will be free even if you have a dual-slot card in PCI-E 2. But if you go with 750i, that kinda eliminates the option of going 2x GX2 in the future as I'd guess the chipset goes to 2 - 8x slots in SLI.

The P7N is almost identical to the layout of my P6N Plat except it adds a PCI-E slot and removes one PCI. Eye-balling my case now, I can easily fit a 2nd GTX in there for SLI and still retain the X-Fi. Things get tighter in front of each card for air intake, but clearance wouldn't be a problem at all.

The other two boards would require you to run single slot cards or use PCI-E slot 3 or 4 instead of slot 2. Not sure if this is entirely possible or not, most likely BIOS-dependent by vendor.

Also, I wouldn't pin your hopes too much on that included X-Fi. Unfortunately its only the PCI-E daughter board equivalent of the X-Fi XtremeAudio, which is a software X-Fi that does not have the 20k1 X-Fi processor.

Thnx for the info on the included x-fi, didnt know that.
Actually, i posted earlier, the MSI P7N Diamond requires you to use the two light blue slots for sli, and that will block all the pci slots.(now whether you can ignore that and use the 1st and 2nd slot anyway...i have no clue....but MSI says to use the dark blue for one card and the two light blue for two cards.)

We know the Asus P5N-T can run two dual slot cards and an x-fi, thanks to SteelSix and his setup. (he has link to a pic of his setup in a post above)

And if you read the link i posted to the Xtreme forum, the MSi P7N Diamond can actuallly run a seperate pci X-fi .
Its on page 1 , read theYipsers post.
theYipster on the xtreme forum posted this...

Note: The P7N manual states that a 2-card SLI setup must use the blue PCI-E 2.0 slots to function properly. I used one blue slot and one PCI-E 1.1 x16 slot (the white one,) so that I have room to install my PCI X-Fi card, which is better than the included PCI-E card (although the PCI-E card is still very good for included audio.) Note that I had no issue enabling SLI and that it appears to be working properly.

Now that has me wondering if you could do the same on the P7N Diamond 750i. (i wish i knew)
I see the Diamond comes with those soft/flexible sli connectors and the Platinum comes with the non-flexible, so the platinum may not be able to simply because of that since the slots distances vary.

chizow How do you like your P6N SLi Plat, would you recommend it to others?

 

[chizow]

Ah ok, looks like someone did the research I wasn't sure about with different PCI-E slots, so that's good news and looks to be a good option.

As for the P6N-SLI, I've been satisfied with it for the most part but overall I've been disappointed with NV chipsets. Its my second 650i board, the first being the Asus P5N-E which had a nasty habit of killing RAM kits. Overall I've found NV chipsets a bit of a PITA to deal with, underperforming relative to reviews especially with low FSB speeds with lots of annoying bugs/annoyances.

Many of the bugs/annoyances have been fixed along the way or have workarounds, but there's still a handful of problems that make me wish I waited for Intel when I got this board (around July). The BIOS updates have been timely and significant, like 1.2 for 2GB or more RAM, 1.5 for Quad Core support, and now 1.6 which for me has added OC'ing stability and allowed me to lower Vcore. Also seems to be slightly less Vdroop under load, which can be pretty signifcant on this board (0.04-0.06V), forcing you to run hot idle just to maintain stability under load.

Although I'm 90% satifisfied with this board now, I wouldn't recommend it to new buyers for a few reasons. 1) FSB OC'ing is highly suspect, with many unable to break 400MHz. 2) Uncertain support for 45nm parts. Some parts work, but the MSI site says 45nm Quad parts do not look to be supported. Again this looks to be a case by case situation with 650i boards and makes. 3) NV chipsets just aren't as good as Intel's. The only reason to buy this board, or any NV chipset, is if you're running SLI imo.

 

[MTDEW]

Originally posted by: chizow
Ah ok, looks like someone did the research I wasn't sure about with different PCI-E slots, so that's good news and looks to be a good option.

As for the P6N-SLI, I've been satisfied with it for the most part but overall I've been disappointed with NV chipsets. Its my second 650i board, the first being the Asus P5N-E which had a nasty habit of killing RAM kits. Overall I've found NV chipsets a bit of a PITA to deal with, underperforming relative to reviews especially with low FSB speeds with lots of annoying bugs/annoyances.

Many of the bugs/annoyances have been fixed along the way or have workarounds, but there's still a handful of problems that make me wish I waited for Intel when I got this board (around July). The BIOS updates have been timely and significant, like 1.2 for 2GB or more RAM, 1.5 for Quad Core support, and now 1.6 which for me has added OC'ing stability and allowed me to lower Vcore. Also seems to be slightly less Vdroop under load, which can be pretty signifcant on this board (0.04-0.06V), forcing you to run hot idle just to maintain stability under load.

Although I'm 90% satifisfied with this board now, I wouldn't recommend it to new buyers for a few reasons. 1) FSB OC'ing is highly suspect, with many unable to break 400MHz. 2) Uncertain support for 45nm parts. Some parts work, but the MSI site says 45nm Quad parts do not look to be supported. Again this looks to be a case by case situation with 650i boards and makes. 3) NV chipsets just aren't as good as Intel's. The only reason to buy this board, or any NV chipset, is if you're running SLI imo.

Thanks for your honesty.
Your post/opinion goes right back to the original question of whether an Intel Chipset mobo and a 9800GX2 would be better than a Nvidia sli mobo and two 512mb 8800GTS cards.

I would assume you'd choose the Intel Mobo/ 9800GX2 option of the two.

 

[MTDEW]

I give up, i feel like its a no win situation.
Every time i think i know whats the best option, some bit of info makes me think i should do the other option.

I added a poll, im interested to see the results.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: MTDEW
Thanks for your honesty.
Your post/opinion goes right back to the original question of whether an Intel Chipset mobo and a 9800GX2 would be better than a Nvidia sli mobo and two 512mb 8800GTS cards.

I would assume you'd choose the Intel Mobo/ 9800GX2 option of the two.

Np, I actually recommended an Intel board to my brother recently for his Q6600 build, but he's not planning to go SLI. As for the Intel vs NV call....again still hard to say. As someone who has never seriously considered SLI as worth it, I'd probably go with Intel. But you're looking at SLI performance as your solution, just a matter of which kind, so having that option with an NV chipset is nice to have. As many reviewers state nowadays, you go with NV for the best graphics options, you go with Intel for the best CPU options. Typically the difference in performance achieved going with the best graphics options surpass the sacrifice of going with the best CPU option, provided you're willing to go SLI.

From what I've seen the 7-series is everything the 6-series *should* have been. But I have to take anything review sites print about NV chipsets with a grain of salt, as my experiences (and others on these forums) with NV chipsets vary from theirs greatly. I've also seen many of the same reviewers partially retract or add addendums to their reviews after the fact, saying the board wasn't as stable as they would've liked etc at certain FSB speeds. Nowadays I try to ask them to clarify when possible as I don't think review sites do a good job of publishing problems they have, or if they do run into problems they blame it on immature BIOS/drivers; even if the problem isn't fixed months later or easily fixable. Latest problem I've run into with NV chipsets is with the well-documented problem of Samsung F1 drives locking up and crashing. Since the SB MCP is essentially the same (since the NF4) I asked to see if AT ran into the problem in their 320GB WD preview. We'll see if they reply, or recant.

As you're leaning towards high-end and already have 2xGTS in-hand, I'd probably go with the NV solution first. If its not enough for you or you still get the upgrade itch, you can go with a GX2 later and even double it up in the future.

 

[MTDEW]

I think i may just go with the Asus P5N-T and be done with it.
I know it works with my ram.
I know i can use my X-fi card with two 512mb 8800GTS cards.
I Know it will work with my e8400.
I know its more durable than the Nvidia reference boards.
I know its had recent bios updates that fix most issues.

All that info thanks to SteelSix :thumbsup: and WHOLE LOT of reading, reading and more reading on hardware forums about the choices.

 

[Hauk]

"..which is a software X-Fi that does not have the 20k1 X-Fi processor."

What Chizow said here about the MSI x-fi card is a big factor. As you said the Asus board meets all your requirements. Last bit of advice on memory settings:

The last bios update added support for the G.Skill we have. With all memory timings set to auto, CPU-Z correctly reports memory timings of 5-5-5-18 45, 2T at the memory's rated 1000mhz. Prior to latest bios, auto timings at 1000 were like 5-6-7-25 or something and setting manually resulted in a BSOD.

I tried with an Asus x38 and this Asus 780i board to go over 1000 but this memory doesn't oc well. Shoot for 950-1000 with default timings. Lastly, 2.07 volts should be enough. That with good airflow and you'll be set!

 

[theYipster]

The P7N manual is incorrect. You can do two card SLI with one card in the blue PCI-E 2.0 x16 slot and one card in the white PCI-E 1.1 x16 slot with no issues or performance loss. I'm typing from such a machine. 18300 in 3DMark O6 with the proc at 3.6ghz and performance in games is exactly on par with what you can expect from an SLI'd GTX setup.

 

[MTDEW]

Originally posted by: theYipster
The P7N manual is incorrect. You can do two card SLI with one card in the blue PCI-E 2.0 x16 slot and one card in the white PCI-E 1.1 x16 slot with no issues or performance loss. I'm typing from such a machine. 18300 in 3DMark O6 with the proc at 3.6ghz and performance in games is exactly on par with what you can expect from an SLI'd GTX setup.

Saw your post about that on the xtreme forums, just didnt know if the P7N Platinum could do the same, especially with the type of sli connector the Platinum comes with.

I think im still going with the Asus to ensure ram compatability and i like the fact the Asus has options to deal with Vdroop, my current Abit IP35-E has vdroop issues also, and i hate having to run higher voltages than i actually need just to compensate.

Thnx for adding to the thread theYipster , your thread on the Msi P7N Diamond on the Xtreme forums was VERY informative and really showed how the MSI bios has matured so far and still is.
The P7N Diamond is a nice board, no doubt i'd be happy with either it or the Asus.

I still have some time to decide since newegg wont process my order until tomorrow anyway, but i think the Asus is my safest bet at this point.

 

[theYipster]

Thanks MtDew,

I didn't catch that you were looking at the Platinum. I'm don't have any experience with that board unfortunately, but I expect it shares similar traits. The ASUS P5N had some significant compatibility issues when it came out, but lately I've heard that its BIOS has matured significantly.

Good luck with the build.

 

[panfist]

I voted for SLI because I think you'll get better support and overclocking (your GPUs) for it. If you want to overclock your CPU an insane amount I think the intel chipset would be better, though.

I think nvidia's SLI is not as robust as AMD's crossfire (because the 3870x2 actually works on a single pcb), although nvidia has a lot more experience with the traditional 2 card setup and and they are pretty good at it.

 

[MTDEW]

UPDATE ON THE MSI P7N PLATINUM!!

It seems the info i gathered on other forums was wrong.
With the MSI P7N Platinum, it seems you CAN use Sli cards with dual slot coolers and still have a free PCI slot!

I trust this info more since there are actual pics of the setup with two cards in sli showing both pci slots are usable when running two cards with single slot coolers.

Now if you look at the pic closely and read the info, the first card goes in the Dark blue slot, and the second card goes in the last light blue slot.

As you can clearly see, even with dual slot cards, the pci slot directly above the last light blue slot will be free to add a soundcard.
Because the distance between that pci slot and the first dark blue PCI-E slot is greater than a dual slot cooler will take up.

This actually works better than having the last pci slot free since a card in the upper pci slot wont block the airflow to the top GPU as much as it would the bottom GPU if a card was in that pci slot instead.

LINK In this pic you can see the pci slot directly above the lower card is free. (so is the last pci slot in this pic, but thats only because hes using cards with single slot coolers, with dual slot coolers, the last pci slot will be unusable)

Link to pic so you can see the distance between the first dark blue pci-e slot and the 2nd light blue pci-slot in this pic you can clearly see, the pci slot that is between the two light blue PCI-e slots will be free even when using cards with dual slot coolers, theres plenty of space between the first PCI-E slot and the pci slot thats between the two light blue slots.

 

[Captante]

Originally posted by: panfist

Originally posted by: Captante
Easy decision ... you have the GT's in-hand & given Nvidia's crappy driver support the last couple years, the two-card SLI will be much more reliable.

Personally I'm skipping the 9800's completely & will suffer through with my 8800GTX while waiting for the real next-gen cards.

If by "suffer through with my 8800GTX" you mean "laugh at everyone else who's purchasing downgraded hardware when I've had the only real next-gen card in my hand for months already," then I have absolutely no sympathy for you.

Actually I've had it since November of '06 & it hasn't let me down yet!

 

[panfist]

Originally posted by: Captante

Originally posted by: panfist

Originally posted by: Captante
Easy decision ... you have the GT's in-hand & given Nvidia's crappy driver support the last couple years, the two-card SLI will be much more reliable.

Personally I'm skipping the 9800's completely & will suffer through with my 8800GTX while waiting for the real next-gen cards.

If by "suffer through with my 8800GTX" you mean "laugh at everyone else who's purchasing downgraded hardware when I've had the only real next-gen card in my hand for months already," then I have absolutely no sympathy for you.

Actually I've had it since November of '06 & it hasn't let me down yet!

Well I've had an x1900XT for which I paid $250 for about that long. For gaming at 1680x1050 I wish I could have had a little bit more juice but I do have a CRT sitting next to my widescreen LCD just in case I want to play at 1024x768 with 4xAA and max details.

So I am jealous...but I have stretched my video card dollar far, too.

 

[MTDEW]

Decision made.
My ASUS P5N-T DELUXE 780I is on the way from Newegg.

I liked the MSI P7N- Platinum 750i board, but i was too afraid of a performance hit when running in sli with future cards, so i decided to stick with a 780i.

 

[imported_wired247]

Congrats, have fun that's what it's all about anyway.

 

[Captante]

Originally posted by: panfist


Well I've had an x1900XT for which I paid $250 for about that long. For gaming at 1680x1050 I wish I could have had a little bit more juice but I do have a CRT sitting next to my widescreen LCD just in case I want to play at 1024x768 with 4xAA and max details.

So I am jealous...but I have stretched my video card dollar far, too.

I actually had a HIS X1900XTX crap out on me in Oct of 2006 & HIS let me down on warranty support so I had to return it to Newegg & they graciously allowed me to credit my full original purchase-price towards the GTX or I wouldn't have gottten it myself, but at this point considering how long its performance has held up gaming at 1920x1200 I'm completely satisfied despite its high price!

Originally posted by: MTDEW
Decision made.
My ASUS P5N-T DELUXE 780I is on the way from Newegg.

I liked the MSI P7N- Platinum 750i board, but i was too afraid of a performance hit when running in sli with future cards, so i decided to stick with a 780i.

You made the right choice ... have fun with the new toy & be sure to report back when your up & running!

 

[MTDEW]

Got my Asus P5N-T Deluxe installed with ZERO issues so far.

I installed Vista 64 with all 8gb of ram in place, my X-FI and a single 8800GTS 512.

No problems installing Vista 64 (yes, with all 8gb installed)
Installed the latest 780i drivers from the Nvidia website.
Installed the latest forceware drivers from the Nvidia website.
Installed Marvell raid controller driver from Asus cd
Installed latest X-Fi drivers from Creative website
Installed all updates from Microshaft. (including any Nvidia ones for the chipset. (just in case)
Installed SP1

I'm amazed, after reading so much about the 680i/780i mobo issues, i actually had NONE, ZERO , ZIP , NADA!

Of course im not fully on sli yet
And im not overclocked yet

Vista 64
Corsair HX620 PSU
Pineer 111D DVD-RW
e8400
MSI 8800GTS 512
8gb Gskill DDR2 1000 (4 sticks of 2gb each)
x-fi Xtreme music
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 SATA
Arctic Freezer 7 Pro (sucks, my Tuniq tower wouldnt fit!...It hits the capacitors around the cpu socket preventing me from tightening the screws or i'll crush those capacitors)

All my settings are at stock on bios v.0703 date 1/18/2008
So im not currently running the latest bios either!

So far, everything has went just as smooth as any of my Intel chipset installs.

Ive managed to get all my programs installed also with no issues.
Ran a few benches with no issues and burnt a few movies.

Next up, i'll try sli first.
Then overclocking.

I havent owned a Nvidia board since the Nforce 4.

I like this. :thumbsup:

 

[Hauk]

So far so good it sounds. You're running an older bios too. I think most of the revisions since 0703 were to get quads running right, and also added memory compatibility. Pay attention to what cpu-z reports on memory timings though (if set to auto in bios). As I mentioned the latest bios adjusts timings right on the mark with the G.Skill.

Bummer about the Tuniq! Not a bad substitue, but that's a bummer. Thermalright 120 Extreme fits...

 

[MTDEW]

The default bios settings put me at 800mhz (5:6 ratio)
1.8v
15-5-5-5
2T
With TRC at 24

That looks about right for 800mhz.

My SPD is
2.1v
500mhz
15-5-5-5
2T
TRC - 45

I have a Q6600 in my other pc, but im not so sure im ever gonna go through the trouble to take this apart and test bios's in this board.
Im more likely to take apart that pc and replace the Gigabyte DS3 with my Abit IP35-E board.

Since its been so far so GREAT.
Im gonna test everything with this bios.
Then flash to 1001 and test.