980/970 6/8gb edition and 980ti?

[ballist1x]

I am obviously LESS than thrilled about anything Nvidia at the moment but a 970 w/ 8GB ram would be good.

Even if it would only turn out a "7GB+1GB" it would solve all the current problems with memory access in certain situations. It would also be the most economical and viable solution for NV without having to admit anything is wrong with the architecture of the 970s (which they will never do) or having to redesign their architecture. I therefore think that 8GB cards are likely to come VERY SOON.

The lack of ROPS isn't going to help...

 

[Headfoot]

Yeah it's totally the same because AMD sold Hawaii to super computer companies for 6 months before introducing a $1000 version of Hawaii called Hawaitan, which still wasn't the full verison, then waited another few months and finally launched the full version at $650.

Oh no wait, AMD launched Hawaii when it was done and significantly undercut the competition's price at the same performance level.

Totally the same.

 

[ocre]

You act like nvidia could have launched a full gtx780ti all along, when the gtx680 launched. You all fail to realize that their big die was short on volume and nvidia was forced to use cut down chips.

The oak ridge order, their super computer that used the very first gk100 teslas, all ended up being cut down gk110s.

The original Titan, tesla, quadros.....
All cut down chips.

Even at the high pricing, the Titan sold out. It was released months after oak ridge, if nvidia was just sitting on them just because you would think that there would have been loads and loads if them. But there wasn't.

At that time, nvidia was struggling with a cut down gk110.
The 780ti launched long after the earlier cards. A time when 28nm volume wasn't an issue for such a large chip. Also the luxury of a mature node can't be ignored. The full gk110 wasnt possible when the gtx680 was.

If you can see that then the rest plays out in the typical fashion.
Nvidia would have been quite aware that AMD was launching a new card. They may not have known exactly everything about it, but they would have known something was coming. And most likely something big. So what did nvidia do?

The same thing they did with the gk104. Wait till AMD launches so you can make sure that your flagship can beat it. Nvidia wanted to stay on top and because they already had the flagship, it was truly AMDs play. There is no doubt that nvidia knew AMD was launching something, and they were prepared for a counter strike.

That is how it all plays out, and it is fascinating. Hawaii had some really beefy looking specs, nvidia wasn't about to step out first. You got to remember, they already had the fastest single card.

People have to quit taking this things out of the context of the time the happened in.

 

[ocre]

Ocre, read my post again. Your 20-25% faster figures are BS. Taking a 1 day snapshot of a launch review when we have post-launch data is meaningless today. In the context of overwhelming review data, overclocking data, it is impossible to correlate 980 to a 7970 and conclude they were similarly as fast over the last gen flagships.

Your argument also fails completely because when you compare 980, you purposely use 290X's data at launch review instead of 780Ti.

You need to be consistent in your comparison. If you compare 980 at launch, it needs to be compared to the fastest card at launch -- that's the 780Ti. Otherwise, we might as well start pulling out benchmarks of 7970 vs. 6970.

As I said, launch reviews only matter at launch. Once newer reviews with latest games become available, we start getting a much better picture. Fast forward 5 months from 7970's launch vs. 580 and 980's launch vs. 290X, the 980 is total garbage in comparison. It barely beats the 780Ti/290X by 15%. Max overclocked 980 manages to beat a max overclocked 290X by 20-25%, and I bet that shrinks to 15-20% against the 780Ti.

HD7970 OC consistently mopped the floor with an overclocked 580 by 40-80% from day 1. You keep ignoring this. In fact an overclocked 7970 today is at least as fast as HD6970CF. Even a 1700mhz 980 won't match 295X2/290X CF in performance. I'll let that sink in for you.

All other factors of longevity, VRAM, you also missed. It's an insult to compare the midrange 980 to the 7970 that when all is said and done took out both the 680 and 770 in performance. 980 will forever be remembered as an overpriced mid-range card. This stigma will never be attached to the 7970.

Even the 680 outperformed 580 by 30-35%. 980 is hands down in the list of the most overpriced single chip next gen NV cards ever made, along with the Titan. Never in the history of NV has a true next gen gaming card (not a semi-pro card) provided so little performance gain for such a high price. Whether you want to admit it or not, the 980 is just a 960Ti. Once R9 300 and GM200 drop, it will become obvious that this is a fact. Once the true next gen flagship cards of this gen launch, GM204 or GM204B (rev2) will slot into its rightful mid-range market segment, unless you think 300 series will be a total flop and NV will launch GM200 at $800+, leaving 980 at $500-550 for another 12 months?

Since you love to keep sticking to launch reviews, keep this in mind then:

- It took a whopping 10 months for the 980 to beat the previous king 780Ti by only 7-10%, for $150 less.

I have a feeling for $150 more, 10 months from 980's launch GM200 and 300 series flagship will beat the 980 by more than 10%. That's why the original 980 at $550 was an overpriced product with too little performance. With prices of 290X and 970 where there are at today, one doesn't even need to wait for GM200/390X's performance to see that 980 is horrendously overpriced. Not even the 480/580 had such gross premiums attached to them against the 470/570.

ocre, it's 100% obvious that you could care less about $ or price/performance so you don't see how much of a rip-off the 980 is.

MSI Gaming 980 = $550 (2.12x more expensive)
MSI Gaming 290X = $260

For 10% more performance. This is the most ludicrous pricing disparity in ATI/NV/AMD GPU history. Never has any single-chip NV card had so little performance advantage at more than double the price! Uber fail.

I am being absolutely consistent. I am really having a hard time understand what your struggling with.

You cannot take things out of the context of the time at which they happened. It's freaky wonderful that the 7970ghz was faster than the 680 and that over time their drivers improved. But that has nothing to do with what I am talking about.

AMD launched the 7970, the original 7970, and put it up against their competitors flagship, the gtx580.

You know that.
It was priced similar and offered all the benefits I already listed.

But then you get backwards somehow, and insist when we look at the 980, it has to be compared with gtx780ti?

Surely you can make comparison to push what ever your trying to push. That is awesome!!!!
Paint whatever picture you want

But, I am telling you that n these companies, nvidia and AMD, are in competition with one another. Nvidia dropped the 980 with their sights on their competitors flagship.

If you can't grasp that, I am sorry but that is how it is.

The irony in all this is that the 980 vs 290x is a very similar situation compared to the 7970 vs 580 and its launch.

If you want to compare the ghz7970 to the 580 and completely ignoring time then you can make any story up you want. Just make it up.

But the 7970 launched in jan 2012, 20-25% faster than the 580 and priced like it. That was AMDs move. That is how they played the first hand in their 7000 series.

October 2014, nvidia launched the gtx980 in a very similar move against their competitors flagship.

You have to realize these are moves both are making as they compete in the GPU markets. Both nvidia and AMD are mindful of their competitions products and moves.

Nvidia could have priced the 980 so low to destroy any chance of AMD making money at all. And sometimes, i think that's really what it would take for you to be less critical about them. You don't realize that the same could be said about AMD and Tahiti, if someone really wanted to push that agenda. Why didn't AMD release the 7970 at 200bucks in 2012? I mean come on

I say this and now realize there is very little chance you will hear anything I am saying. It's a little bit deeper than the typical mud slinging. My point is, things are much more fascinating when you look at how it all really played out. You often ignore time completely and I guess that's why you are not getting it. Card launches are a moment in time to which they happen. They launch with regards to the market at that time. No matter if its nvidia or AMD, there is real planning behind it. Where they will slot it and how many they intend to sell. They figure all this up before hand. You probably don't know but the final price is often set at the very last minute. Because internally they are still watching the market till the last minute. They have a specific number of cards they want to move and price plays a huge factor in this. Sometimes they want to make a huge splash.

From the launch, anything can happen. After that moment, adjustments are made to try to keep sales on track if need be.

Take the time to see how things come to be and quit taking things out of the context of time

 

[Headfoot]

It is indisputable that the 680 / 780 Ti + Titan + 780 situation is NOT the same as the 7970 / 290(x) situation. There is no indication that at any point Hawaii was ready but was being held back purely to maintain high prices longer. The 290 wasn't delayed 6 months from the 290x.

 

[DownTheSky]

It is indisputable that the 680 / 780 Ti + Titan + 780 situation is NOT the same as the 7970 / 290(x) situation. There is no indication that at any point Hawaii was ready but was being held back purely to maintain high prices longer. The 290 wasn't delayed 6 months from the 290x.

What this guy said.