9700 am I this stupid? what am I doing wrong?

[etrin]

Ok I have a p4 board with a 1.8G processor and 512 megs of mem

I went from a TI 4600 to a Radeon 9700.

Never had any problems with the 4600 and the drivers NO matter what
version of drivers.

On to the 9700...win98se
installed 3.2 cat drivers new install.
Wow it works fine. but 60hz locked in all freqs.
After half a day searching ok here we go, need to fix the bios well I patch
it and it works now at any res.
Games are working as planned and everything is AOK...well until I drop in
MW4 a D3D game. It just flashes black screen on boot. then errors out.
I try dxdiag and well the d3d is not fully installed in drivers. Reinstall and get
it to work.. BUT now 60hz and NO WAY to get anything else.
Some say this some say that some say try 3.4 fixed it for me.
remove drivers, install 3.4 NOPE still 60 locked.

On to XP new install .... newest cat drivers...install 60 locked...BUT there is a way
now to fix that. so every thing is fine in XP .....NOPE
seems that desktop is set to whatever and it works fine.
In games,,,set them to 1280 x 1024 and I get 60HZ
WTF

a person that says he works for ati on rage3d told me they are doing this to get
ms certs on their drivers and some people will fry their monitors if they go over 60hz

true or now are ATI drivers a junker or is it just me.
This is my first ATI radeon card and I can't see paying good money for headaches that
I have not seen in Nvidia since the TNT cards.


Any ideas, I uninstalled the 3.4 in XP and went to 3.2. BAD thing is not matter what os and drives IF I get one thing to work in one driver its broken in another.
I have not seen either system or driver combo that had NO problems with refresh rates and/or D3D problems or high clock problems.

AND yes I have the inf files for my monitor and it stored all the info..
and I look under the ATI setup it list all the resolutions and refresh rates for my monitor and they are all correct.

The closest was XP with 3.4 no problems with desktop but games are something else.
Why when it will set the desktop to 1280x1024 at 120HZ with no problems.. I go into a game at this setting and get 60hz in the game.

Should I go back to nvidia and get the niceness of not having to hack/patch/pray for something to work???


thanks for any ideas/pointers/suggestions

Etrin

 

[Mem]

RefreshForce should fix your problem,if not try RefreshLock for the 60HZ Win2K/XP fix.

 

[MrColin]

RefreshForce should fix your problem,if not try RefreshLock for the 60HZ Win2K/XP fix.

He's right. Powerstrip will also fix the refresh rate problem (sometimes). The problem is caused by . . . that's right Microshaft not ATI. For whatever reason microsoft decided that XP users should always run thier monitors at 60Hz. :|

 

[Tab]

Are you using the proper drivers for your moniter? That could be a possiblity.

 

[squidman]

60 hz on win98 SE??! Are u sure u did a clean install? Why 98Se and Me remain my favorite OS's, is that they use the maximum possible refresh rate a monitor/vga could handle.
Dont forget monitor drivers - they get reset once u install another VGA (thou should be unnecessary - still supposed to work fine)
And good, clean install wouldnt hurt.
THE BEST refresh rate util - is called AtiRefreshratefix (search for it on google). It doesnt install unnecessary crap onto your pc...heck, it doesnt install at all (whic is good) - it just alters the necessary parameters in the registry. Then, just lock the refresh rates - and bam! reboot. I dunno which ones can yo monitor handle, but i locked 640x480 at 200, 800x600 @ 160, and 1024x768 @ 100 (dont play bigger res's cuz mnitor is a 17 inch).
I hate rage 3d tweak - it installs hella crap, and it doesnt work.
RivaTuner doesnt work either
Powerstrip pissed the hell outta me and friggin gave me "Windows recovered from a serious error" upon boot.

 

[LegionX]

all i do is set the settings in the advance mene/display? to same as desk top. havent had a problem. used to bugf the hell out of me before that. on my kyro2 board i set the defualt in dxdiag to 85. only opengl games i have a problem with but have been able to fix those through the game.

before that i used a refresh program and i forget the name but when it asked to confirm it would say it in german.

 

[etrin]

Well after running every program you people said try I was stumped.
I fixed the desktop problems but still all games would default to 60hz.

Ok to make a long story short I scratched my head ( I think it was my head LOL)
and remembered one thing. Since I purchased my monitor I have always ran BNC
connectors. Could that be it. Took me an hr to find the std cable and boom it works now.
It was something that I never thought of. Nvidia never cared (and ATI should not) I give it my
monitor settings and thats that.
BUT NOT ATI
why will it default every setting to 60hz no matter what setup or configs I use?
IS ATI GOD and we are all idiots?

Well when Nvidia gets going again I believe this is my only ati product. I am not paying money
to be hasseled with sorry drivers that know more than I do.

BY the way thanks BIG TIME for all the people who posted help here.
And only after seeing everything NOT work did I look and try to find another answer.

WAKE UP ATI....I know as much as you do. I don't need this crap.

Thanks again
Etrin

 

[Ketchup]

Ok, have you tried this?

In WinXP, Go to display properties -> Settings -> Advanced -> Displays. Clcik on you monitor. At the bottom of the page, set you Maximum Refresh to 100 or whatever your monitor's max is. You may also need to check DirectX Override Refresh Rate. Other than that, I am stumped as well, for the moment.

 

[oldfart]

You hit it one the head about the BNC. BNC does not provide any DDC info. That is the problem. To fix it go to display properties, and go to the displays tab. Click on the monitor button and set the max res and refresh rate that will be allowed. You will notice t is set to 60 Hz by default. That will fix you up.

 

[Pete]

Yes, I use BNC as well and had the same problem with my Rage 128 until I found the solution: go to Display Properties > Settings > Advanced > ATi Attributes and manually enter your monitor's max resolution and refresh rate (not the max refresh at max res--these are two separate values, the max monitor res, and the max refresh, achievable only at the lowest resolutions).

 

[etrin]

Sorry I logged in on the post and got a blank....it always does that


Well it cleared up everthing in 98. It works fine.
In XP no matter what I set unless I remove the bnc cable and replace
with a std 15 pin cable it refuses to run over 60 hz in any game.
I get 1024x768 in any res up to 120 but go into a game at same resolution
and I am back to 60hz.
I know with a bnc cable the system can't get all the info from the monitor
but with me telling it the monitor and setup with the correct drivers and inf
files. The drivers know what it is but refuse to use the information.

I talked to a LOT of people on rage3D (where they all think that ATI is God )
and there are 100's of post about the refresh problems in all os's.
On one hand ATI says there is nothing to fix.
When asked why this is done they refuse to say there is a question
much less a problem. I guess what they are saying you can't fix perfection ROFL

I just noticed one thing. The CD that came with the card, I first installed it on a 98se
system. I got cat 3.2 drivers. Ok no biggie.
BUT I flipped over and looked at the XP os and it says 2.4 drivers ?
can someone give me the info on XP drivers 2.4 on the cd with the card.
Is this correct 2.4 ????

I guess its time to remove all drivers and do an install of the 3.2 or 3.4 cat drivers.
Does everyone remove all drivers and controlls, set to pci card and reboot to
install/update drivers

Well let me see so far 4 days time lost messing with ATI drivers and timing issues.
Nvidia 5 minutes..
Yep ATI makes some fine drivers NOT

Etrin

 

[Pete]

?

 

[oldfart]

This is a very simple fix. I posted it a couple of posts up. It should take about 10 seconds to do. Its just a simple setting in the display properties.

 

[Ketchup]

Well etrin,90% of the people here will help dig your grave if you start bad-mouthing ATI, so you may not find a lot of sympathy here.

Even though I am using an ATI card, I bought it because it was the best card available at the time I bought it. My ti4400 was getting too slow for the newer games, and the 5800 was a lot more expensive than the 9700 PRO and hard to find, so the choice was clear.

Having had both, I do find that nVidia's drivers were much more user-friendly, and I reaslly don't understand why you have to install drivers AND a control panel with the ATI. I mean, I can't think of any reason you would install one without the other, so why are they separate? I also liked that you could force the refresh rate for each resolution with the latest detonator drivers. But from a hardware aspect, I think ATI is a little better. My 9700 is smaller, quieter, and faster than my ti4400, and it overclocks better on top of that. I hope you aren't one of those that gets burned by a video card or whatever and desides to boycott that company for five years (I have read several active members in this forum make that statement.) In my opinion, you are going to miss a lot of good hardware along the way.

Good luck with your card, but don't be afraid to sell it and get something else if you don't like it. By buying one video card, you are not proclaiming loyalty to any company. The only loyalty you have is to by what you think is the best card for the best money. If ATI doesn't do it for you, then get something else that will.

 

[oldfart]

Honestly, I cant fathom why people have such a hard time getting a video card to work. I've owned many nVidia cards inc GF2, GF3, GF4 and a couple of Radeons. Never had any issue getting any of them to work.

It's not that much different from one to the other. With ATi, the control panel is separate. One more setup.exe.

With BOTH nV and ATi, you have to put in a refresh rate force for Win2K/XP. No difference there.

The BNC thing is very simple to fix. I saw the same thing with my BNC monitor. A couple of mouse clicks is all it takes. Why not try it?

 

[rbV5]

90% of the people here will help dig your grave if you start bad-mouthing ATI, so you won't find much sympathy here, except from me.

BS, oldfart has given concise method of "fixing" this minor issue and he's not digging any graves and seems his usual sympathetic self. What a jerk Mem is for suggesting you try a refresh rate fix, and Tabb an a$$ for suggesting monitor *inf file, and what is LegionX thinking "Kyro2", why, isn't that off-topic thread crapping ? Yea 90% ATI fanboi a44holes here ketchup79. For crying out loud..its a non-issue, just using a VGA connection shows that. I ran into this issue when I started using BNC cables a couple years ago, oldfarts "fix" has worked for me since.

Edited for clarity

 

[Mem]

Mem, I believe rbV5 was being sarcastic

I hope you`re right .

 

[Pete]

Mem, I believe rbV5 was being sarcastic.

 

[Ketchup]

Originally posted by: rbV5

90% of the people here will help dig your grave if you start bad-mouthing ATI, so you won't find much sympathy here, except from me.

BS, oldfart has given concise method of "fixing" this minor issue and he's not digging any graves and seems his usual sympathetic self. What a jerk Mem is for suggesting you try a refresh rate fix, and Tabb an a$$ for suggesting monitor *inf file, and what is LegionX thinking "Kyro2", why, isn't that off-topic thread crapping? Yea 90% ATI fanboi a44holes here ketchup79. For crying out loud..its a non-issue, just using a VGA connection shows that. I ran into this issue when I started using BNC cables a couple years ago, oldfarts "fix" has worked for me since.

Well, I can see who is the the 90% bracket I really don't appreciate it when people only participate in a thread in attempt to crap on somebody else.

rbV5 and anybody else who was offended by my statement, take a look at any threads that involve and ATI vs. nVidia discussion, and I still think my statement is justified, although I have revised my statement because I didn't express myself the way I wanted to the first time. I know I am not the only person around here who doesn't worship ATI, but I have participated in quite a few threads where it seems that way.

And yes, we are thankful for people like oldfart who know how to be helpful without being a jerk. I think we all could learn something from that.

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: oldfart
Honestly, I cant fathom why people have such a hard time getting a video card to work. I've owned many nVidia cards inc GF2, GF3, GF4 and a couple of Radeons. Never had any issue getting any of them to work.

It's not that much different from one to the other. With ATi, the control panel is separate. One more setup.exe.

With BOTH nV and ATi, you have to put in a refresh rate force for Win2K/XP. No difference there.

The BNC thing is very simple to fix. I saw the same thing with my BNC monitor. A couple of mouse clicks is all it takes. Why not try it?

nahh it's slightly more difficult on ATI...if your monitor has no DCC information... then YOU MUST INSTALL the control panel...

in the display settings, you have to set what the display modes the monitor is capable of....

what's the point of that? stupid things ATI has to add into their drivers to confuse people..
don't they know that not everyone looks through every single setting of their drivers?

haha i'm surprised that the people at rage 3d doesn't have a fricken clue and starts blaming it on the os...

i'd have to say the people here are becoming rage3d zealots too...

 

[Pete]

The point is, what if you're clueless and you have a 19" monitor connected via BNC cables, but you use the wrong inf, for a 21" with higher max resolution and refresh than yours. ATi's defaulting to 60Hz prevents you from blowing it up, whereas if nVidia allows you to use the inf without making you take the extra (double-check) step of manually entering your max res and refresh, you may damage your monitor if you select too high a res or refresh.

True, most monitors today just display a blank screen with an "out of range" warning if you do that, but ATi may be looking toward older ones. And this 60Hz issue will disappear once more ppl move to LCD's.

Just another way of looking at it. Heck, Windows locks you into 60Hz by default in D3D, so ATi can say they're merely following MS' lead, given how much ATi stresses its WHQL cert.

 

[rbV5]

take a look at any threads that involve and ATI vs. nVidia discussion, and I still think my statement is justified

I guess we can make EVERY video thread ATI vs Nvidia then

I saw nothing but helpfull posts in this thread save the original poster...who just wants to get his card/rig working right. Having been there ourselves, most of us can understand that, and give helpful suggestions despite the (deserved) ranting. That is, right up untill "Well etrin,90% of the people here will help dig your grave if you start bad-mouthing ATI, so you may not find a lot of sympathy here." WTF did that come from? No wonder these threads go to crap in 0 to 60 seconds. Seems someone like you can always find the ATI vs Nvidia component I guess.

Mem, I believe rbV5 was being sarcastic.

I guess my sarcasm is slipping, but I absolutely meant no offense to Mem, Tabb nor LegionX for their helpfull suggestions. It seemed they were SO OBVIOUSLY NOT threadcrapping, it would illustrate my point.
virtualgames0, read the readme files and installation tips that come with the drivers...suprising the amount of frustration they can reduce.

 

[oldfart]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0nahh it's slightly more difficult on ATI...if your monitor has no DCC information... then YOU MUST INSTALL the control panel...

You always need the control panel if you want the ATi display properties. Has nothing to do with DCC.

in the display settings, you have to set what the display modes the monitor is capable of....

No, just the monitors max resolution and refresh rate. Looks like you have never done this yourself.

what's the point of that? stupid things ATI has to add into their drivers to confuse people..
don't they know that not everyone looks through every single setting of their drivers?

I didn't find it at all confusing. Its not exactly rocket science.

haha i'm surprised that the people at rage 3d doesn't have a fricken clue and starts blaming it on the os...
i'd have to say the people here are becoming rage3d zealots too...

I find it odd that someone can try to make a very simple display setting into an "ATi sucks" or ATi Vs nVidia argument. There are zealots in this thread, but they certainly are not from the ATi camp.

You seem to be more interested in bashing ATi than providing an answer to a question.

 

[yhelothar]

You always need the control panel if you want the ATi display properties. Has nothing to do with DCC.

uhh yeah but you don't need the display properties if the card properly detected your DCC... duhh...

No, just the monitors max resolution and refresh rate. Looks like you have never done this yourself.

you just reworded what i said.. looks like you don't understand english

i didn't find it at all confusing. Its not exactly rocket science.

yeah you don't, cuz you are a computer nerd... 90% of the people that own ati cards aren't computer nerds, and usually don't bother with the settings, or even bother to install the ati control panel...

You seem to be more interested in bashing ATi instead of looking for a solution to your problem.

i was just agreeing with etrin

 

[Pete]

"in the display settings, you have to set what the display modes the monitor is capable of...."

is not the same thing as

"No, just the monitors max resolution and refresh rate."

The former implies entering every single res and its corresponding max refresh, while the latter implies entering just two figures. It's not a matter of lack of understanding, but lack of clarity of expression.