9600Pro vs 9800Pro...Disappointed

[49erinnc]

Okay, gonna run it.

HOWEVER, I think I may have come across an issue related to my problems.

I have noticed (didn't really bring it up earlier because I forgot about it) that when I install a new set of video drivers, that I always get an error message saying "Zero Display Service Error." I click out of that error message and then my drivers continue to load like everything is okay.

I did some research on that error and found where several people were having the same problem. Unfortunately, no one had a fix for this. But from what I could gather, this affected the AGP speed in some way. Don't know if it's supposed to be like this, but I do know that after I install new drivers/reboot and check my device manager, the properties for both my primary/secondary 9800 card are showing they're located in "PCI Bus 1". Is that okay or shouldn't they say AGP?? If anyone knows anything about this particular error message, then please let me know because I think it's part of my problem, if not all of it. Also, I don't know if t

I will go ahead and download/run 03 and see what my benches are there so you guys can tell me if I have other issues.

 

[49erinnc]

Okay, I know nothing about 3DMark03 but I ran it and got the following:

1024x768
Max Anisotropy: 4
Vertex Shaders: Optimal
Texture Filtering: Optimal
Bench score: 5,980
CPU Score: 357

So, how does 5,980 on 3DMark03 compare with the crappy 11K I was getting with 3DMark01? Should I still be concerned? 5,980 sound about right? Not good? C'mon people, please give me some good news for once (but don't lie). :laugh:

This was run with Catalyst 4.8 by the way, with 2200+ CPU set at 143MHz FSB and memory set at PC2100 speeds (133MHz). Video card OC'd to natural XT speeds and application preferences checked in control panel. Fast Writes On. That's all I can think of.

I still have the issue of that error message every time I install a new driver though but I'd at least like to know how my '03 benchmark compares to my '01 one.

Thanks

Edited to note that I just read through the 3DMark03 thread and from what I can tell, my bench was actually pretty good considering my low(er) end CPU, running memory at PC2100 speeds, no video card overclocking above XT speeds and factory VGA cooling and a generic 300W PSU in a case with NO exhaust fans....lol. I guess I should probably be happy with 5,980 considering all of that. Not much I can do about the CPU/Memory issue right now but the case/PSU is on the way and I can always OC the video card more. I feel a little better about my new card now...I think.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Rollo
Doom 3 runs poorly on all ATI cards except the X800XT PE.

how can you claim that doom3 run poorly on all ati cards except for the x800xt-pe when you claim your 5800 runs doom3 well and the 5800u doesn't doesn't run any better than a 9800xt?

double standards with a Nvidia bias here, eh Rollo?

Where have I ever said the 5800U ran Doom 3 "well"?!

This thread wherein I state:

Sweet! The 5800U turns out to be the functional equivalent of the 5950 and 9800XT at Doom3- gotta love it!

??????

I am impressed the 5800U with half the memory and much less memory bandwidth can play Doom 3 as well as 9800XTs and 5950Us. Aren't you?

But where have you ever seen me say a 5800U runs Doom3 "well" that you are making these accusations of bias???

As far as Apoppins' assertion that I'm a hardware snob because I don't think 10X7 0X0X with diminished texture quality is "reasonable" or 10X7 2x8X with crappy framerates is "good", oh well. I've been waiting for this game four years, and like the rest of the world I enjoy it, so it's worth $300 for a 6800NU to me to play it at some modern framerates and settings. I don't saddle myself with last gen cards and settle for lower quality gaming experiences when the game is important to me.

To each their own, it's fairly amusing to me how many people seem to think it's somehow their business when other people spend money they earn honestly on their hobbies.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: 49erinnc
Okay, I know nothing about 3DMark03 but I ran it and got the following:

1024x768
Max Anisotropy: 4
Vertex Shaders: Optimal
Texture Filtering: Optimal
Bench score: 5,980
CPU Score: 357

So, how does 5,980 on 3DMark03 compare with the crappy 11K I was getting with 3DMark01? Should I still be concerned? 5,980 sound about right? Not good? C'mon people, please give me some good news for once (but don't lie). :laugh:

This was run with Catalyst 4.8 by the way, with 2200+ CPU set at 143MHz FSB and memory set at PC2100 speeds (133MHz). Video card OC'd to natural XT speeds and application preferences checked in control panel. Fast Writes On. That's all I can think of.

I still have the issue of that error message every time I install a new driver though but I'd at least like to know how my '03 benchmark compares to my '01 one.

Thanks

Edited to note that I just read through the 3DMark03 thread and from what I can tell, my bench was actually pretty good considering my low(er) end CPU, running memory at PC2100 speeds, no video card overclocking above XT speeds and factory VGA cooling and a generic 300W PSU in a case with NO exhaust fans....lol. I guess I should probably be happy with 5,980 considering all of that. Not much I can do about the CPU/Memory issue right now but the case/PSU is on the way and I can always OC the video card more. I feel a little better about my new card now...I think.

you never did reinstall your 9600p. . . . that'd told you a LOT. 😛

Your 3DMark'03 score is fine . . . i'd be looking to reinstall my O/S (or setting up a small new partition on my HD) at this point instead of buying a bunch of new crap that may or may not help.

:roll:

 

[49erinnc]

you never did reinstall your 9600p. . . . that'd told you a LOT. 😛

Your 3DMark'03 score is fine . . . i'd be looking to reinstall my O/S (or setting up a small new partition on my HD) at this point instead of buying a bunch of new crap that may or may not help.

:roll:

I know. Like I said though, I guess I had so much confidence in the 9800Pro that I sold my 9600Pro before I even ensured myself that the 9800Pro was working fine. I had to ship out the 9600Pro today to the buyer and I just didn't want to risk doing anything to it because it ran fine when I took it out to put in the 9800Pro.

As for buying new crap. The only thing I bought was just a case that came with a 430W PSU. I needed both anyway since my current case is a sauna with no fan vents at all. I'll admit it was an impulse buy relating to my video card issues, but I can still justify needing it. You would too if you saw my current case which is about 7 years old and was never meant to be used for gaming purposes. Not to mention is't just flat out ugly.

😀

Seriously though....I appreciate all the help I received from everyone. I'm still not quite where I want to be with all of this and formatting my hard drive is still an option just to rid my rig of a ton of clutter, if nothing else.

 

[railer]

Your 3dmark 03 is fine. 03 is almost completely a GPU bench.
3dmark 01 is more of a system bench, it stresses both cpu/ram and GPU.

So that tells you there's nothing wrong with your card, which is good.

There's still something wrong with your D3 scores. I clocked my Barton down to 12.5x133, kept 1 gig ram at 133, and clocked my 9700 np to stock (275/270), and still got 32 fps in d3, at 1024x768 high quality, using demo1. I did do the Humus mod when I first got the game, but as I recall it didn't make a ton of difference. That game scales very well with GPU speed, so if I clocked my 9700 up to 380 like a 9800p, I KNOW I'd be breaking 40 fps. For you to be getting 27 fps indicates that there's still some funkiness going on.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: 49erinnc

you never did reinstall your 9600p. . . . that'd told you a LOT. 😛

Your 3DMark'03 score is fine . . . i'd be looking to reinstall my O/S (or setting up a small new partition on my HD) at this point instead of buying a bunch of new crap that may or may not help.

:roll:

I know. Like I said though, I guess I had so much confidence in the 9800Pro that I sold my 9600Pro before I even ensured myself that the 9800Pro was working fine. I had to ship out the 9600Pro today to the buyer and I just didn't want to risk doing anything to it because it ran fine when I took it out to put in the 9800Pro.

As for buying new crap. The only thing I bought was just a case that came with a 430W PSU. I needed both anyway since my current case is a sauna with no fan vents at all. I'll admit it was an impulse buy relating to my video card issues, but I can still justify needing it. You would too if you saw my current case which is about 7 years old and was never meant to be used for gaming purposes. Not to mention is't just flat out ugly.

😀

Seriously though....I appreciate all the help I received from everyone. I'm still not quite where I want to be with all of this and formatting my hard drive is still an option just to rid my rig of a ton of clutter, if nothing else.

you guess 'right' - your 9800p is fine . . . the 9600 would have told you about your system . . .

instead of a complete reinstall, why not set up a small partition on your HD where you can install just the minimum and THEN run some benchmarking tests - that'll tell you if you need to do the complete reinstall . . . 😉

good luck!

hey, no "crap" from me on the case . . . if you need (or want it) buy it! But you were talking about more or better RAM, a better CPU, etc. . . . another partition is "free" (THEN you can buy all the rest of the stuff) 😀

 

[Toro 45]

While reading through this thread I kept agreeing with the others saying "reinstall your 9600 pro" it sounds like your drivers got fubar'd. Since your 9600 is gone I would do a system restore to the day before you installed your 9800 and if that doesn't work, just do a fresh OS install and skip the Omega drivers. Good luck

 

[Manzelle]

Originally posted by: CraigRT

Originally posted by: Manzelle

Originally posted by: Rollo
Doom 3 runs poorly on all ATI cards except the X800XT PE.

Your 9800Pro is a HUGE upgrade from the 9600Pro, and will show huge gains on all other games. Hopefully you didn't buy a 9800Pro specifically for Doom3.

I wouldn't characterize its performance as poor but rather weak...69fps 1024x768 High Quality is certainly playable for me...

69 fps on an 9800 Pro? :Q

I got 40.

that's with an Athlon64 3200+ and 1GB of DDR400

how the hell did you get 69 fps? I am running 1024x768 medium detail, and humus tweak.

Overclocking...

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Manzelle

Originally posted by: CraigRT

Originally posted by: Manzelle

Originally posted by: Rollo
Doom 3 runs poorly on all ATI cards except the X800XT PE.

Your 9800Pro is a HUGE upgrade from the 9600Pro, and will show huge gains on all other games. Hopefully you didn't buy a 9800Pro specifically for Doom3.

I wouldn't characterize its performance as poor but rather weak...69fps 1024x768 High Quality is certainly playable for me...

69 fps on an 9800 Pro? :Q

I got 40.

that's with an Athlon64 3200+ and 1GB of DDR400

how the hell did you get 69 fps? I am running 1024x768 medium detail, and humus tweak.

Overclocking...

More like "fibbing".

That's one magic 9800Pro you've got there Manzelle! A 60MHz OC on the core and it outperforms a X800Pro on a faster processor than you have! Wowee!

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/pny_verto_6800gt/page16.asp
X800Pro on P4 3.4 =67fps at 10X7 HiQ

Pretty amazing how that 60MHz OC on an 8 pipe card is faster than a 12 pipe with much faster RAM and only slightly slower core! :roll:

Kind of strange how the X800Pro benched here at AT was around 50% faster than the 9800XT but you overcame that whole deficit with with a 20% core OC! Astounding!
More believable benches

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Manzelle

Originally posted by: CraigRT

Originally posted by: Manzelle

Originally posted by: Rollo
Doom 3 runs poorly on all ATI cards except the X800XT PE.

Your 9800Pro is a HUGE upgrade from the 9600Pro, and will show huge gains on all other games. Hopefully you didn't buy a 9800Pro specifically for Doom3.

I wouldn't characterize its performance as poor but rather weak...69fps 1024x768 High Quality is certainly playable for me...

69 fps on an 9800 Pro? :Q

I got 40.

that's with an Athlon64 3200+ and 1GB of DDR400

how the hell did you get 69 fps? I am running 1024x768 medium detail, and humus tweak.

Overclocking...

i don't get 69fps with my 9800xt (432Mhz o/c'd core/395Mhz Memory clock) in Doom TimeDemo1 . . . in HiQ (10x7 - 8xAF/0xAA) . . . or anywhere near that. 😛 . . . (edit) and my case was open and the card was cooled to the max, room temp was ~60 F . . . but it made it thru the demo w/o artifacting 😀

How high is YOUR o/c and are you referring to Doom III's TimeDemo1 . . . or just to a "peak" FPS you saw ingame?


?

edit: of course, i only have a 2.80c P4 o/c'd to 3.31Ghz, and 1GB PC3500. 😛

:roll:

 

[Manzelle]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Manzelle

Originally posted by: CraigRT

Originally posted by: Manzelle

Originally posted by: Rollo
Doom 3 runs poorly on all ATI cards except the X800XT PE.

Your 9800Pro is a HUGE upgrade from the 9600Pro, and will show huge gains on all other games. Hopefully you didn't buy a 9800Pro specifically for Doom3.

I wouldn't characterize its performance as poor but rather weak...69fps 1024x768 High Quality is certainly playable for me...

69 fps on an 9800 Pro? :Q

I got 40.

that's with an Athlon64 3200+ and 1GB of DDR400

how the hell did you get 69 fps? I am running 1024x768 medium detail, and humus tweak.

Overclocking...

i don't get 69fps with my 9800xt (432Mhz o/c'd core/395Mhz Memory clock) in Doom TimeDemo1 . . . in HiQ (10x7 - 8xAF/0xAA) . . . or anywhere near that. 😛 . . . (edit) and my case was open and the card was cooled to the max, room temp was ~60 F . . . but it made it thru the demo w/o artifacting 😀

How high is YOUR o/c and are you referring to Doom III's TimeDemo1 . . . or just to a "peak" FPS you saw ingame?


?

edit: of course, i only have a 2.80c P4 o/c'd to 3.31Ghz, and 1GB PC3500. 😛

:roll:

My 9800 Pro is overclocked to 441/396 and I run the game in HQ @ 1024x768 2xAF/0xAA - and this was using TimeDemo1...
I am running an Athlon XP-M 2600+ @ 2.665GHz and 1GB OCZ PC3700 EB...

 

[nRollo]

Forcing 2X AF is not running at High Quality Manzelle. "High Quality" in Doom 3 is 8X AF by default. What you're running is more like Medium Detail, 2X AF.

If you said that in the first place, I wouldn't have said anything.

I apologize for the misunderstanding.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Manzelle

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Manzelle

Originally posted by: CraigRT

Originally posted by: Manzelle

Originally posted by: Rollo
Doom 3 runs poorly on all ATI cards except the X800XT PE.

Your 9800Pro is a HUGE upgrade from the 9600Pro, and will show huge gains on all other games. Hopefully you didn't buy a 9800Pro specifically for Doom3.

I wouldn't characterize its performance as poor but rather weak...69fps 1024x768 High Quality is certainly playable for me...

69 fps on an 9800 Pro? :Q

I got 40.

that's with an Athlon64 3200+ and 1GB of DDR400

how the hell did you get 69 fps? I am running 1024x768 medium detail, and humus tweak.

Overclocking...

i don't get 69fps with my 9800xt (432Mhz o/c'd core/395Mhz Memory clock) in Doom TimeDemo1 . . . in HiQ (10x7 - 8xAF/0xAA) . . . or anywhere near that. 😛 . . . (edit) and my case was open and the card was cooled to the max, room temp was ~60 F . . . but it made it thru the demo w/o artifacting 😀

How high is YOUR o/c and are you referring to Doom III's TimeDemo1 . . . or just to a "peak" FPS you saw ingame?


?

edit: of course, i only have a 2.80c P4 o/c'd to 3.31Ghz, and 1GB PC3500. 😛

:roll:

My 9800 Pro is overclocked to 441/396 and I run the game in HQ @ 1024x768 2xAF/0xAA - and this was using TimeDemo1...
I am running an Athlon XP-M 2600+ @ 2.665GHz and 1GB OCZ PC3700 EB...

Thanks!

i was worried . . . for a bit. 😀

We aren't running the same settings - although our 9800 cores are almost identically o/c'd and ram timings the same; the only difference is i have 128MB more RAM . . .

you are running only with 2xAF . . . i am running with the default 8xAF 😉

BTW,

the CPU ALSO makes a difference in FPS in Doom

Choosing the Best CPU for Doom III Very interesting . . . from x-bit 😉

 

[Manzelle]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Manzelle

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Manzelle

Originally posted by: CraigRT

Originally posted by: Manzelle

Originally posted by: Rollo
Doom 3 runs poorly on all ATI cards except the X800XT PE.

Your 9800Pro is a HUGE upgrade from the 9600Pro, and will show huge gains on all other games. Hopefully you didn't buy a 9800Pro specifically for Doom3.

I wouldn't characterize its performance as poor but rather weak...69fps 1024x768 High Quality is certainly playable for me...

69 fps on an 9800 Pro? :Q

I got 40.

that's with an Athlon64 3200+ and 1GB of DDR400

how the hell did you get 69 fps? I am running 1024x768 medium detail, and humus tweak.

Overclocking...

i don't get 69fps with my 9800xt (432Mhz o/c'd core/395Mhz Memory clock) in Doom TimeDemo1 . . . in HiQ (10x7 - 8xAF/0xAA) . . . or anywhere near that. 😛 . . . (edit) and my case was open and the card was cooled to the max, room temp was ~60 F . . . but it made it thru the demo w/o artifacting 😀

How high is YOUR o/c and are you referring to Doom III's TimeDemo1 . . . or just to a "peak" FPS you saw ingame?


?

edit: of course, i only have a 2.80c P4 o/c'd to 3.31Ghz, and 1GB PC3500. 😛

:roll:

My 9800 Pro is overclocked to 441/396 and I run the game in HQ @ 1024x768 2xAF/0xAA - and this was using TimeDemo1...
I am running an Athlon XP-M 2600+ @ 2.665GHz and 1GB OCZ PC3700 EB...

Thanks!

i was worried . . . for a bit. 😀

We aren't running the same settings - although our 9800 cores are almost identically o/c'd and ram timings the same; the only difference is i have 128MB more RAM . . .

you are running only with 2xAF . . . i am running with the default 8xAF 😉

BTW,

the CPU ALSO makes a difference in FPS in Doom

Choosing the Best CPU for Doom III Very interesting . . . from x-bit 😉

51.3fps when settings are 0xAA/8xAF

 

[Avalon]

The high quality AF settings only do AF on some textures in the game, while forcing AF on in the CP will do AF on everything.

Back to the OP, I figured the card was fine. People keep saying that a PSU/heat issue isn't going to result in poor performance...I say it will if your system is having a hard time being stable and rebooting all the time. Good move on getting the new case with the new PSU. With a stronger PSU, your system *should* be stable now that it's got enough juice, and the airflow will help as well. You'll still get low 3dmark01 scores until you get a new CPU/memory, but at least you know hte system will be stable and the card isn't defective.

 

[49erinnc]

instead of a complete reinstall, why not set up a small partition on your HD where you can install just the minimum and THEN run some benchmarking tests - that'll tell you if you need to do the complete reinstall . . . 😉

good luck!

hey, no "crap" from me on the case . . . if you need (or want it) buy it! But you were talking about more or better RAM, a better CPU, etc. . . . another partition is "free" (THEN you can buy all the rest of the stuff) 😀

I'll try the small partition idea this weekend. Dumb question on that though: let's say I set up a 2GB partition and install a new set of drivers on that partition. If I already have any driver conflicts, would they influence the driver I installed on the new partition, or should there not be any conflicts there?

As for the other stuff, I was definitely about to jump on a new CPU as well but decided against it. I could use a new CPU, just to run my memory at 333MHz if nothing else, but I'm content for right now. I am however, looking forward to the case upgrade. I probably didn't really need the PSU that it comes with but it was a great buy and at least now I'm covered with power, for when I upgrade to a X800/6800 line card in the future.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: 49erinnc

instead of a complete reinstall, why not set up a small partition on your HD where you can install just the minimum and THEN run some benchmarking tests - that'll tell you if you need to do the complete reinstall . . . 😉

good luck!

hey, no "crap" from me on the case . . . if you need (or want it) buy it! But you were talking about more or better RAM, a better CPU, etc. . . . another partition is "free" (THEN you can buy all the rest of the stuff) 😀

I'll try the small partition idea this weekend. Dumb question on that though: let's say I set up a 2GB partition and install a new set of drivers on that partition. If I already have any driver conflicts, would they influence the driver I installed on the new partition, or should there not be any conflicts there?

As for the other stuff, I was definitely about to jump on a new CPU as well but decided against it. I could use a new CPU, just to run my memory at 333MHz if nothing else, but I'm content for right now. I am however, looking forward to the case upgrade. I probably didn't really need the PSU that it comes with but it was a great buy and at least now I'm covered with power, for when I upgrade to a X800/6800 line card in the future.

A clean install on a new partition is free from possible problems with your old install.

i am not one to judge . . . much . . . i got a 480w PS earlier this year . . . just 'in case' but never got that 6800u . . . yet . . . 😀