• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

90nm FX-55 and Athlon 64 4200+?

Ooooh... Quoting Heywood now?
Maybe on the next Intel preview of things to come, you can break out "Intel wasn't built in a day." 😉


Looks like AMD will be having the same high wattage numbers with their 90nm stuff, as well.
 
Good riddance to the Duron, I say...not having to build a whole 'nother line of processors will cut some of AMD's expenses, and to be perfectly honest the AXP or AXP-M are plenty fast-and cheap-enough.

Lol, basically all their 32 bit procs are Value 🙂
 
The 90nm process is SOI. Everything in AMD's future is SOI from Newcastle on.

The A64 "4200" has not been officially designated that, just >4000+ is what the roadmap says now. Originally we heard 4200 but maybe they changed their minds.

You guessed it, the current Athlon XP line = the new "Value" line. They arent even going to change the cores on some of them.

Kristopher
 
Originally posted by: jagec
Good riddance to the Duron, I say...not having to build a whole 'nother line of processors will cut some of AMD's expenses, and to be perfectly honest the AXP or AXP-M are plenty fast-and cheap-enough.

Lol, basically all their 32 bit procs are Value 🙂
Click to expand...

but many will miss the $39.99 duron/mobo combo which lets u build another comp out of ur old junk parts for almost nothing
 
Originally posted by: KristopherKubicki
The 90nm process is SOI. Everything in AMD's future is SOI from Newcastle on.

The A64 "4200" has not been officially designated that, just >4000+ is what the roadmap says now. Originally we heard 4200 but maybe they changed their minds.

You guessed it, the current Athlon XP line = the new "Value" line. They arent even going to change the cores on some of them.

Kristopher
Click to expand...

I am aware of that, what im saying is why are their numbers for consumption and heat up rapidly just like intel?

The general consensus among reviewers now was that its was .09 + Strained Silicon + a LACK of SOI that caused prescotts current issues.
 
Originally posted by: Acanthus
The general consensus among reviewers now was that its was .09 + Strained Silicon + a LACK of SOI that caused prescotts current issues.
Click to expand...
I don't think this is correct. Dothan using the same 90nm process, higher clock and 55+ Million transistors from the extra 1MB L2 cache is cooler than Banias. Prescott's problems probably problem stem from the large increase in pipeline stages, near tripling of non-cache transistors and high core voltage. The current implementations of SOI do virtually nothing to help the leakage issues that arise from smaller processes.
 
I believe that SOI only increases heat problems. The thermal conductivity of oxide is two orders of magnitude less than single crystal silicon. So it's more difficult getting rid of the heat, unless there's good methods for ridding out the top. But the numbers I've seen can only reach 50/50 out top/bottom.

SkipE
 
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Originally posted by: SkipE
I believe that SOI only increases heat problems. The thermal conductivity of oxide is two orders of magnitude less than single crystal silicon. So it's more difficult getting rid of the heat, unless there's good methods for ridding out the top. But the numbers I've seen can only reach 50/50 out top/bottom.

SkipE
Click to expand...

It seems as though not everyone would agree with you...
Click to expand...
Rule #1, Jeff... Don't listen to market analysts when it comes to technology. Many times, they are just salesmen trying to push their product (their favorite stock.)

Notice that Kristopher's article directly contradicts two of the analysts predictions... One, that AMD will ship 90nm parts ahead of schedule. And two, that AMD's 90nm parts will output less heat than Intel's offerings.
 
Originally posted by: Wingznut
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Originally posted by: SkipE
I believe that SOI only increases heat problems. The thermal conductivity of oxide is two orders of magnitude less than single crystal silicon. So it's more difficult getting rid of the heat, unless there's good methods for ridding out the top. But the numbers I've seen can only reach 50/50 out top/bottom.

SkipE
Click to expand...

It seems as though not everyone would agree with you...
Click to expand...
Rule #1, Jeff... Don't listen to market analysts when it comes to technology. Many times, they are just salesmen trying to push their product (their favorite stock.)

Notice that Kristopher's article directly contradicts two of the analysts predictions... One, that AMD will ship 90nm parts ahead of schedule. And two, that AMD's 90nm parts will output less heat than Intel's offerings.
Click to expand...

Oh I know... plus that article is over 6 months old... my point was that I don't belive for a second that SOI increases heat problems...

*EDIT* SOI reduces current leakage which will reduce heat... SOI also reduces capacitance which will allow higher clock speeds. To my knowledge, strained silicon does absolutely nothing to reduce current leakage or capacitance... so there's the difference between Intel's 90nm and AMD's 90nm process... although I have been wrong/uninformed before 🙂
 
Well, there's a lot of ideas out there. One of my colleagues proposed a kind of via approach for better cooling and received a patent for it.

I worked on the SOI heating problem for about a year.
It's been a while, but I'm not sure it is as bad as first thought because the duty cycle is low.

If you do DC measurements, it's really bad. In fact we had to design some of the IO sections differently because simulations predicted the heating would melt the silicon. The simulation leaves a lot to be desired when the temp gets real high, but it at least points out the rather significant heating problem.

The capacitance is indeed lower as someone else pointed out, primarily because you lose the rather large capacitance from the bottom of the source/drain diffusions. This is the major reason industry has pushed for SOI. Lower capacitance -> higher frequencies. It's typically 30% lower than bulk CMOS.

Then there is of course partially-depleted and fully-depleted SOI. But that goes way beyone this scope of this discussion...

Skip
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top