900 students in Ottawa suspended for lack of vaccinations

[Murloc]

Some people are unprotected for whatever reason, for example if they can't take vaccines. It's your duty to vaccinate yourself to protect those people who don't have a choice.
Also since vaccines are not 100%, if there is ill people all the time, people who got vaccinated might get the illness anyway.
If everyone who can is vaccinated, the chance for that to happen is much lower, the disease can't spread and it can disappear almost completely from the population even if the vaccine is not 100% effective on everyone and not everyone is vaccinated.

 

[Brainonska511]

Except with a DUI people who choose not to drink and drive are at risk. That's a pretty important difference.

With a vaccine, if someone for whatever reason does not want to take it, or can't due to some medical reason, they are putting THEMSELVES at risk. Everyone else who is vaccinated is safe otherwise, what's the point of even having them if they don't actually work for the threat they are designed for? When you travel to a country where people don't take vaccines, you are safe, because you have the vaccine. That's why they say it's especially important to take the proper vaccines if going in 3rd world countries where people actually DO have all these diseases, so you wont contract them. Of course not all vaccines are 100%, but they still decrease the odds of catching stuff.

When people choose not to get a vaccine, they put others at risk. e.g. People too young to be vaccinated, immune compromised people where vaccination won't work, people for whom the vaccine has lost its effectiveness, and society itself, as you can become a breading ground for the next mutation in the disease to help it leap around the protections provided by vaccines.

 

[jaqie]

wow a whole lot of bad blood and monkeys flinging poo at eachother here. (not trying to insult anyone specific or in general, trying to use an analogy for what I see in the thread)

I do have two bits of information to add here:
I happen to have porphyria which means I can have a deadly reaction to many vaccines. Related is the one thing I have to deal with constantly is telling doctors that the standard treatment / vac for tetanus can kill me, do not give it to me. Some refuse to believe me so I have to be really persistent... I would rather not suffer from the affects of that thank you doc.

There is also a small population of which I am one that get autoimmune and autonomic function disorders from being vaccinated with so many things... vaccines do cause permanent harm to some people and it is difficult or impossible to know which people will get this from the standard vaccine regimen. Yes, this is rare. Yes, vaccines are worth it - this from someone that suffers from this problem daily and has for many years. I just wish there was a way to find out in advance those people that will have this kind of reaction before they are immunized and put on a global list of medical alert never to immunize them.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Except with a DUI people who choose not to drink and drive are at risk. That's a pretty important difference.

With a vaccine, if someone for whatever reason does not want to take it, or can't due to some medical reason, they are putting THEMSELVES at risk. Everyone else who is vaccinated is safe otherwise, what's the point of even having them if they don't actually work for the threat they are designed for? When you travel to a country where people don't take vaccines, you are safe, because you have the vaccine. That's why they say it's especially important to take the proper vaccines if going in 3rd world countries where people actually DO have all these diseases, so you wont contract them. Of course not all vaccines are 100%, but they still decrease the odds of catching stuff.

Quoted for stupidity.

Hey Red Squirrel, read Jaqie's post. She CAN'T get vaccinated against many diseases, so when someone else chooses not to be vaccinated, it puts her at risk of catching a disease. Your argument is completely wrong and nonsensical. It's been pointed out to you multiple times why it is wrong and why it is comparable to drunk driving.

 

[Brainonska511]

wow a whole lot of bad blood and monkeys flinging poo at eachother here. (not trying to insult anyone specific or in general, trying to use an analogy for what I see in the thread)

I do have two bits of information to add here:
I happen to have porphyria which means I can have a deadly reaction to many vaccines. Related is the one thing I have to deal with constantly is telling doctors that the standard treatment / vac for tetanus can kill me, do not give it to me. Some refuse to believe me so I have to be really persistent... I would rather not suffer from the affects of that thank you doc.

There is also a small population of which I am one that get autoimmune and autonomic function disorders from being vaccinated with so many things... vaccines do cause permanent harm to some people and it is difficult or impossible to know which people will get this from the standard vaccine regimen. Yes, this is rare. Yes, vaccines are worth it - this from someone that suffers from this problem daily and has for many years. I just wish there was a way to find out in advance those people that will have this kind of reaction before they are immunized and put on a global list of medical alert never to immunize them.

No one in this thread is saying that people like you should be forced to be vaccinated. The eligible population being vaccinated protects people like yourself from those nasty diseases of old. The main argument stems from morons who think it's some sort of personal affront that they are not being allowed to become personal vectors for diseases to spread through the population.

 

[yhelothar]

My university won't let you register for classes if you're not vaccinated. Seriously, this is something widely enforced. Why is this even news?

 

[crashtestdummy]

wow a whole lot of bad blood and monkeys flinging poo at eachother here. (not trying to insult anyone specific or in general, trying to use an analogy for what I see in the thread)

I do have two bits of information to add here:
I happen to have porphyria which means I can have a deadly reaction to many vaccines. Related is the one thing I have to deal with constantly is telling doctors that the standard treatment / vac for tetanus can kill me, do not give it to me. Some refuse to believe me so I have to be really persistent... I would rather not suffer from the affects of that thank you doc.

There is also a small population of which I am one that get autoimmune and autonomic function disorders from being vaccinated with so many things... vaccines do cause permanent harm to some people and it is difficult or impossible to know which people will get this from the standard vaccine regimen. Yes, this is rare. Yes, vaccines are worth it - this from someone that suffers from this problem daily and has for many years. I just wish there was a way to find out in advance those people that will have this kind of reaction before they are immunized and put on a global list of medical alert never to immunize them.

There are always people who we will be unable to immunize (including the very young and very old), but they are protected by those we can. When people elect not to immunize themselves even though they can be, they put those who can't at risk.

I'm afraid I'm not very familiar with porphyria, but it looks like vaccines are perfectly safe:

http://www.porphyriafoundation.com/news/flu-shot-in-acute-porphyria

http://www.wmic.wales.nhs.uk/pdfs/bulletins/Porphyria bulletin July 2008.pdf

http://www.porphyria-europe.com/01-for-patients/EN/acute-porphyria.asp#09

In fact, while many other drugs are contraindicated, I can't see any reference to vaccines being a problem. It's possible that you have an autoimmune problem separate from the porphyria, but it doesn't seem related to that particular disease.

 

[jaqie]

No one in this thread is saying that people like you should be forced to be vaccinated. The eligible population being vaccinated protects people like yourself from those nasty diseases of old. The main argument stems from morons who think it's some sort of personal affront that they are not being allowed to become personal vectors for diseases to spread through the population.

What I am trying to say is that I was vaccinated and it caused several permanent problems with me, an autoimmune disorder and autonomic system malfunction. These are permanent and systemic.

And I still think vaccines are worthwhile to be given everyone.

I just wish that people like me could be screened out before we are given the vaccine regimen and the damage is done.

 

[cbrunny]

Don't forget that Ontario has universal healthcare. Tax payers pay for the medical bills of bad parents with children who don't get vaccines.

 

[jaqie]

There are always people who we will be unable to immunize (including the very young and very old), but they are protected by those we can. When people elect not to immunize themselves even though they can be, they put those who can't at risk.

I'm afraid I'm not very familiar with porphyria, but it looks like vaccines are perfectly safe:

http://www.porphyriafoundation.com/news/flu-shot-in-acute-porphyria

http://www.wmic.wales.nhs.uk/pdfs/bulletins/Porphyria bulletin July 2008.pdf

http://www.porphyria-europe.com/01-for-patients/EN/acute-porphyria.asp#09

In fact, while many other drugs are contraindicated, I can't see any reference to vaccines being a problem. It's possible that you have an autoimmune problem separate from the porphyria, but it doesn't seem related to that particular disease.

No, not all are. an especially nasty one is, as I posted, the standard tetanus one.

Check my post just above yours, I do have autoimmune problems in addition to porphyria, but they were a reaction to the standard vaccination regimen prevalent in the early 80s. A rare one to be sure, but it does happen.

 

[Brainonska511]

What I am trying to say is that I was vaccinated and it caused several permanent problems with me, an autoimmune disorder and autonomic system malfunction. These are permanent and systemic.

And I still think vaccines are worthwhile to be given everyone.

I just wish that people like me could be screened out before we are given the vaccine regimen and the damage is done.

That would be great if people could be screened for such conditions prior and it is unfortunate in your case.

Regardless, the risk from disease is far, far greater than any risk posed by a vaccine.

 

[Texashiker]

It's amazing how people openly shun vaccines, arguably one of one the greatest medical advances in the last hundred years.

Shouldn't we also have a basic right to say what goes into our bodies?

My university won't let you register for classes if you're not vaccinated. Seriously, this is something widely enforced. Why is this even news?

What university is that?

 

[jaqie]

Shouldn't we also have a basic right to say what goes into our bodies?

When it comes to this? NO!

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Shouldn't we also have a basic right to say what goes into our bodies?




What university is that?

You DO have a basic right.

However, you don't have a basic right to access certain services that will put you into contact with many people.

If you don't want vaccines, and you don't have some weird autoimmune disorder, don't mingle with the rest of the population.

 

[Brainonska511]

Shouldn't we also have a basic right to say what goes into our bodies?

Shouldn't we have a right to not be infected with diseases of old because some ignorant asshat decided not to get vaccinated?

Don't want to get vaccinated? Live in the woods and never come into contact with society. We cannot have a funcitoning society where it is all about "me me me". There has to be a compromise between the good of society and the freedom of the individual. The tiny loss of freedom to an individual over something as trivial as mandatory vaccination is far outweighed by the benefits to society.

 

[Texashiker]

Shouldn't we have a right to not be infected with diseases of old because some ignorant asshat decided not to get vaccinated?

If you don't want vaccines, and you don't have some weird autoimmune disorder, don't mingle with the rest of the population.

You were vaccinated, so you have nothing to worry about.

 

[techs]

You were vaccinated, so you have nothing to worry about.

A small percentage of people who are vaccinated will still be able to get the disease.

Its insane that people are actually arguing against vaccinations. They are literally living in their own mental cave where reality and reason can't get in.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

You were vaccinated, so you have nothing to worry about.

Doesn't work that way. Vaccines are not 100% effective, usually about 90-95% effective. Herd immunity takes care of the rest.

Cite the case I posted a bit back, one unimmunized kid contracted a disease that spread to other immunized kids and even immunized kids and caused an outbreak that has been unheard of in decades.

 

[Texashiker]

Its insane that people are actually arguing against vaccinations. They are literally living in their own mental cave where reality and reason can't get in.

Not arguing against vaccines, arguing for individual rights.

The majority of these childhood diseases are not life threatening. If this had been TB or polio, then yea, require vaccination.

Cite the case I posted a bit back, one unimmunized kid contracted a disease that spread to other immunized kids and even immunized kids and caused an outbreak that has been unheard of in decades.

There was a local case of a fully vaccinated child who developed pertussis.

The vaccine record showed either 5 or 6 (I forgot which one) shots, but the child was fully vaccinated with Dtap and still got whooping cough.

 

[cbrunny]

A small percentage of people who are vaccinated will still be able to get the disease.

Its insane that people are actually arguing against vaccinations. They are literally living in their own mental cave where reality and reason can't get in.

People that argue against vaccines = people that want to pay more tax.

 

[techs]

Not arguing against vaccines, arguing for individual rights.

You have the right to endanger your child by not having them vaccinated. There are a lot of countries that don't require vaccinations. Feel free to move to smallpox island.

Extreme "libertarian" ideologies have never worked. And American was not founded on extreme libertarian values but on cooperation and the greater good.

We have virtually wiped out smallpox and polio in the US due to mandatory vaccinations. Anyone who wants bring them back is, in my book, a dangerous terrorist.

 

[IAteYourMother]

Not arguing against vaccines, arguing for individual rights.

The majority of these childhood diseases are not life threatening. If this had been TB or polio, then yea, require vaccination.




There was a local case of a fully vaccinated child who developed pertussis.

The vaccine record showed either 5 or 6 (I forgot which one) shots, but the child was fully vaccinated with Dtap and still got whooping cough.

Aren't you also someone who supports the bans on drugs?

 

[Jaskalas]

It's amazing how people openly shun vaccines, arguably one of one the greatest medical advances in the last hundred years.

Society's blessings create a blissful ignorance of harsh realities. We forget the knowledge our parents and grandparents had knowing the fear of such diseases... a lesson which forced them into action to prevent them.

These days we're toiling away on soft plushy cushions and think the risk from a needle is the worst thing. Thus knowledge is lost and humanity grows a little stupider.

If everyone stopped vaccinations and polio returned as an epidemic, the streets would lined with plush bottoms begging for the cure.

 

[Texashiker]

You have the right to endanger your child by not having them vaccinated. There are a lot of countries that don't require vaccinations. Feel free to move to smallpox island.

And that kind of mindset is dangerous. As in you treat all childhood diseases the same.

The truth is, few of the childhood diseases we vaccinate against are deadly, or even cause longterm effects. The vast majority of the time chicken pox, mumps, measles will pass in a matter of days.

But yet people like yourself would have us believe chicken pox is a killer.

Fear mongering should be left out of the vaccine debate.

Aren't you also someone who supports the bans on drugs?

Not sure I understand your post.

Society's blessings create a blissful ignorance of harsh realities. We forget the knowledge our parents and grandparents had knowing the fear of such diseases... a lesson which forced them into action to prevent them.

Fear childhood diseases such as chicken pox? That is laughable. I guess that is why parents used to bring kids over to homes where the children were sick?

Generation Y will probably be the last generation to remember childhood diseases.

 

[IAteYourMother]

Simply put: Do you support the war on drugs?