9-11 anomaly?

[ManyBeers]

I was reading this thread
and it got me to thinking about somehing I found hard to believe: which is the fact that the terrorists who planned these hijackings for many months would choose to use utility knives as their only means of defense and coercive force against the occupants of the planes(probably mostly male passengers and pilots). It is for me extremely bizarre. I mean how many grown men are going to be afraid of some guy threatening them with a utility knife when he is hijacking
a plane you are in, and you have no idea what his intentions with that plane are(probably not good though) Come on...utility knives!!! , and no guns, if this isn't an anomaly and a violation of physics I don't know what is.

 

[Todd33]

They also said they had bombs on board I think.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Well, since a 3/4" deep cut accross the windpipe and jugular vein(s) would be fatal in less than 2 minutes without
very sophisticated immediate attention, it proved to be quite effective in incapacatating the pilot and co-pilot.

 

[Future Shock]

Originally posted by: ManyBeers
I was reading this thread
and it got me to thinking about somehing I found hard to believe: which is the fact that the terrorists who planned these hijackings for many months would choose to use utility knives as their only means of defense and coercive force against the occupants of the planes(probably mostly male passengers and pilots). It is for me extremely bizarre. I mean how many grown men are going to be afraid of some guy threatening them with a utility knife when he is hijacking
a plane you are in, and you have no idea what his intentions with that plane are(probably not good though) Come on...utility knives!!! , and no guns, if this isn't an anomaly and a violation of physics I don't know what is.

Most of the on-board terrorists had been trained in martial arts as well.

They most likely killed a stewardess or passenger immediately to show that they were serious, maybe took another one hostage, and also claimed to have bombs.

Future Shock

 

[tweakmm]

Used properly a utility knife would f- someone up bad.

 

[Polish3d]

They also had mace or something similar that they sprayed into the passenger area according to a History Channel recreation... basically, no one really understood what was going on

 

[ManyBeers]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Well, since a 3/4" deep cut accross the windpipe and jugular vein(s) would be fatal in less than 2 minutes without
very sophisticated immediate attention, it proved to be quite effective in incapacatating the pilot and co-pilot.

I gues you have done this before and it's pretty easy, huh. So all the passengers and crew just stood by while thee terrorists slit their throats. I'll be damned. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

I gues you have done this before and it's pretty easy, huh.

MATS Commando

 

[ManyBeers]

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: ManyBeers
I was reading this thread
and it got me to thinking about somehing I found hard to believe: which is the fact that the terrorists who planned these hijackings for many months would choose to use utility knives as their only means of defense and coercive force against the occupants of the planes(probably mostly male passengers and pilots). It is for me extremely bizarre. I mean how many grown men are going to be afraid of some guy threatening them with a utility knife when he is hijacking
a plane you are in, and you have no idea what his intentions with that plane are(probably not good though) Come on...utility knives!!! , and no guns, if this isn't an anomaly and a violation of physics I don't know what is.

Most of the on-board terrorists had been trained in martial arts as well.

They most likely killed a stewardess or passenger immediately to show that they were serious, maybe took another one hostage, and also claimed to have bombs.

Future Shock

If they killed somebody right before their eyes on a hijacked plane don't you think the other passengers would immediately panic and all hell would break out.

 

[ManyBeers]

Originally posted by: tweakmm
Used properly a utility knife would f- someone up bad.

There were over 100 people on these planes. And you aren't going o die instantly from a utility knife wound there would be time to reraliate, wih a high adrenaline rush working in your favor.

 

[shrumpage]

No one expected the terrorist to crash the planes.

All other hijackings were, fly to an airport and make demands - maybe kill a few people.

If something like that happened today - passengers won't take the chance - they'd probably take 'em out any way they could.

 

[ManyBeers]

As far as I'm concerned the 2 most unbelievable facts about 9-11 is the subject matter of this thread and the fact that2 110 story buildings struck in completely different parts of there structure fell virtually straight down(so-called pancake effect ) I don't know what the odds of that are, but short of it being arranged by building demolition experts(which I don't think they were)
they must be pretty long.

 

[ManyBeers]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Well, since a 3/4" deep cut accross the windpipe and jugular vein(s) would be fatal in less than 2 minutes without
very sophisticated immediate attention, it proved to be quite effective in incapacatating the pilot and co-pilot.

But how many passengers can you do this to before the others decide "enough is enough"?
Who goes to hijack commercial airliners with POCKET KNIVES?

"Hey Mohammed, what are we gonna do if they try to stop us"?

"Oh, we will kill them with our pocket knives".

 

[McPhreak]

Originally posted by: ManyBeers
As far as I'm concerned the 2 most unbelievable facts about 9-11 is the subject matter of this thread and the fact that2 110 story buildings struck in completely different parts of there structure fell virtually straight down(so-called pancake effect ) I don't know what the odds of that are, but short of it being arranged by building demolition experts(which I don't think they were)
they must be pretty long.

Maybe the towers were designed to fall that way as a precaution against a major fire or earthquake or a ....plane strike. A 110-story building could do quite a bit of damage if it fell on it's side. I think the extra plane fuel also helped in this effect as it took out complete floors of the building rather than 1 side.

I dunno. Just complete speculation on my part.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Well, since a 3/4" deep cut accross the windpipe and jugular vein(s) would be fatal in less than 2 minutes without
very sophisticated immediate attention, it proved to be quite effective in incapacatating the pilot and co-pilot.

But how many passengers can you do this to before the others decide "enough is enough"?
Who goes to hijack commercial airliners with POCKET KNIVES?

"Hey Mohammed, what are we gonna do if they try to stop us"?

"Oh, we will kill them with our pocket knives".

All they had to do was enter the cockpit and take control - it went down faster than the passengers could react to it,
then over the intercom they said they were going to land. Who thought otherwise until 3 had been crashed ?
The one where the passengers did react was because someone on the plane was alerted by cell phone to what was happening.
The Hijackers were already in the cockpit of that one as well, and it crashed duting some inflight frackas.

A more sobering question would be - how many more were in flight when all planes were ordered to land,
and any hijack attempt had not yet commenced. They may have just walked away.
There were some 'passengers' that took a bus or train from Saint Louis to Texas that were picked up -
never heard much more about that. Or the bus driver that had his throat cut on the highway shortly after.

We still don't know anything about the Anthrax Plot - it's unexcusable that they don't have that one solved -
someone's still out there . . . waiting.

 

[ManyBeers]

Originally posted by: McPhreak

Originally posted by: ManyBeers
As far as I'm concerned the 2 most unbelievable facts about 9-11 is the subject matter of this thread and the fact that2 110 story buildings struck in completely different parts of there structure fell virtually straight down(so-called pancake effect ) I don't know what the odds of that are, but short of it being arranged by building demolition experts(which I don't think they were)
they must be pretty long.

Maybe the towers were designed to fall that way as a precaution against a major fire or earthquake or a ....plane strike. A 110-story building could do quite a bit of damage if it fell on it's side. I think the extra plane fuel also helped in this effect as it took out complete floors of the building rather than 1 side.

I dunno. Just complete speculation on my part.

Well I don't think buildings are designed to fall in any particular way, they are designed to stay up no matter what. It just seems to me for them to fall the way they did that all the supporting structures had to burn and fail at the same time but some parts were burning and melting more than others. I mean it looks like when they fell it was like watching a controlled demolition, and heck even with all the planning that goes in to one of those they still failproof I don't think there was any controlled demolition done on those buildings, I just think for both of them to collapse the way they did was highly unlikely, but they did.

In other words; 2 110 story buildings being struck at random buy airliners traveling somewhere over 400 mph.were able to fall in virtually there own footprints, yet a 300 foot tall grain elevator fails to fall after weeks of effort by demolition experts.

 

[kogase]

It doesn't really matter, as you weren't on any of those planes and neither were we.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: McPhreak

Originally posted by: ManyBeers
As far as I'm concerned the 2 most unbelievable facts about 9-11 is the subject matter of this thread and the fact that2 110 story buildings struck in completely different parts of there structure fell virtually straight down(so-called pancake effect ) I don't know what the odds of that are, but short of it being arranged by building demolition experts(which I don't think they were)
they must be pretty long.

Maybe the towers were designed to fall that way as a precaution against a major fire or earthquake or a ....plane strike. A 110-story building could do quite a bit of damage if it fell on it's side. I think the extra plane fuel also helped in this effect as it took out complete floors of the building rather than 1 side.

I dunno. Just complete speculation on my part.

Well I don't think buildings are designed to fall in any particular way, they are designed to stay up no matter what. It just seems to me for them to fall the way they did that all the supporting structures had to burn and fail at the same time but some parts were burning and melting more than others. I mean it looks like when they fell it was like watching a controlled demolition, and heck even with all the planning that goes in to one of those they still fail proof I don't think there was any controlled demolition done on those buildings, I just think for both of them to collapse the way they did was highly unlikely, but they did.

A study by Lincoln Electric, to find out if welding flaws were a contributing factor to the building collapse,
found that the heat generated in the confined space of the building and loss of the fireproof coating
on the steel structures lead to a sublimation of the steel - it simply evaporated away from the surface of the beams.
Where there had been 1/4" and 3/8" thick steel I-Beams they had been reduced to 0.050 - 0.060 thick webs.
Evaporated - like ice on a day that stays below freezing, the material just went away molecule at a time.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Well I don't think buildings are designed to fall in any particular way, they are designed to stay up no matter what. It just seems to me for them to fall the way they did that all the supporting structures had to burn and fail at the same time but some parts were burning and melting more than others. I mean it looks like when they fell it was like watching a controlled demolition, and heck even with all the planning that goes in to one of those they still failproof I don't think there was any controlled demolition done on those buildings, I just think for both of them to collapse the way they did was highly unlikely, but they did.

In other words; 2 110 story buildings being struck at random buy airliners traveling somewhere over 400 mph.were able to fall in virtually there own footprints, yet a 300 foot tall grain elevator fails to fall after weeks of effort by demolition experts.

And where, pray tell, did you get your engineering degree with a specialization in demolition.

Ahh?

Can't hear you...

You didn't?

Well STFU then. Thanks.

 

[morrisbj]

Originally posted by: ManyBeers
I was reading this thread
and it got me to thinking about somehing I found hard to believe: which is the fact that the terrorists who planned these hijackings for many months would choose to use utility knives as their only means of defense and coercive force against the occupants of the planes(probably mostly male passengers and pilots). It is for me extremely bizarre. I mean how many grown men are going to be afraid of some guy threatening them with a utility knife when he is hijacking
a plane you are in, and you have no idea what his intentions with that plane are(probably not good though) Come on...utility knives!!! , and no guns, if this isn't an anomaly and a violation of physics I don't know what is.

At the time, something like a utility knife would rarely be prevented from getting on the plane, while guns and larger knives would almost definitely be stopped. Once they got into the cockpit and handled the pilots, it isn't hard for 3-5 people to hold a space as small as a cockpit door against a bunch of unarmed civilians. It may not be much of a weapon, but it is definitely enough.

 

[RaDragon]

Originally posted by: shrumpage
No one expected the terrorist to crash the planes.

All other hijackings were, fly to an airport and make demands - maybe kill a few people.

If something like that happened today - passengers won't take the chance - they'd probably take 'em out any way they could.

Yup, that was probably what the passengers thought. Before 9/11, things were somewhat relaxed (esp. for domestic flights!)

For the other flight though (going to DC), weren't there passengers who attempted to fight the terrorists?

 

[ManyBeers]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Well I don't think buildings are designed to fall in any particular way, they are designed to stay up no matter what. It just seems to me for them to fall the way they did that all the supporting structures had to burn and fail at the same time but some parts were burning and melting more than others. I mean it looks like when they fell it was like watching a controlled demolition, and heck even with all the planning that goes in to one of those they still failproof I don't think there was any controlled demolition done on those buildings, I just think for both of them to collapse the way they did was highly unlikely, but they did.

In other words; 2 110 story buildings being struck at random buy airliners traveling somewhere over 400 mph.were able to fall in virtually there own footprints, yet a 300 foot tall grain elevator fails to fall after weeks of effort by demolition experts.

And where, pray tell, did you get your engineering degree with a specialization in demolition.

Ahh?

Can't hear you...

You didn't?

Well STFU then. Thanks.

What is your problem. i don't need a degree to think it was a highly improbable event dude. You stfu.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: shrumpage
No one expected the terrorist to crash the planes.
All other hijackings were, fly to an airport and make demands - maybe kill a few people.
If something like that happened today - passengers won't take the chance - they'd probably take 'em out any way they could.

Exactly. And, when the passengers did find out (the PA flight) they did revolt. But before that day, most people assumed that hijacking meant a flight to a neutral country and demands. I suspect alot of those folks thought they might be visiting Cuba (I suspect this is even true of most of the hijackers) until it became clear what the real purpose of the attacks where.

In other words; 2 110 story buildings being struck at random buy airliners traveling somewhere over 400 mph.were able to fall in virtually there own footprints, yet a 300 foot tall grain elevator fails to fall after weeks of effort by demolition experts.

There was really no other way for the builds to fall. It was the collapse of one floor that began the systematic collapse. Even if that one floor fails unevenly (and it most likely did) your talking about the upper stack of the builds (a few hundred feet) being twisted while falling about 12 feet. After that first floor, all of the other floors would fail in a similar way. They couldn't control the weight of the failed building above them.

Watch the video, watch the fall of the roofline itself, it clearly it turning to one side as it collapses.

Bill

p.s. Oh, and take a physics class would you.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: ManyBeers
As far as I'm concerned the 2 most unbelievable facts about 9-11 is the subject matter of this thread and the fact that2 110 story buildings struck in completely different parts of there structure fell virtually straight down(so-called pancake effect ) I don't know what the odds of that are, but short of it being arranged by building demolition experts(which I don't think they were)
they must be pretty long.

They both crashed above the Asbestos line.

 

[ManyBeers]

Originally posted by: bsobel

Originally posted by: shrumpage
No one expected the terrorist to crash the planes.
All other hijackings were, fly to an airport and make demands - maybe kill a few people.
If something like that happened today - passengers won't take the chance - they'd probably take 'em out any way they could.

Exactly. And, when the passengers did find out (the PA flight) they did revolt. But before that day, most people assumed that hijacking meant a flight to a neutral country and demands. I suspect alot of those folks thought they might be visiting Cuba (I suspect this is even true of most of the hijackers) until it became clear what the real purpose of the attacks where.

In other words; 2 110 story buildings being struck at random buy airliners traveling somewhere over 400 mph.were able to fall in virtually there own footprints, yet a 300 foot tall grain elevator fails to fall after weeks of effort by demolition experts.

There was really no other way for the builds to fall. It was the collapse of one floor that began the systematic collapse. Even if that one floor fails unevenly (and it most likely did) your talking about the upper stack of the builds (a few hundred feet) being twisted while falling about 12 feet. After that first floor, all of the other floors would fail in a similar way. They couldn't control the weight of the failed building above them.

Watch the video, watch the fall of the roofline itself, it clearly it turning to one side as it collapses.

Bill

p.s. Oh, and take a physics class would you.

Before 911 if you had a room full of physics professors and structural engineers assembled and told them you were going to take 2 airliners traveling at 400 mph and slam each of them into a tower of the WTC at different levels I wonder how many would agree with you they it makes perfect sense for both of them to fall straight down? My guess is they would have been surprised if they collapsed at all.

I guess what this boils down to is this: you watched the footage on tv (or wherever) as the buildings fell and were satisfied that they fell exactly as you thought they would , into a nice neat pile. I on the other hand was shocked how neatly they came down and was surprised when the first one collapsed and then the second I did not think they would completely fail like they did. I thought the top might fall off.