9/11: a pilot explains why incompetent hijackers could not fly airliners

Votingisanillusion

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This the most detailed and most interesting analysis by a pilot of the 9/11 hijackings that I have read so far (found through the site where you can find daily updates about 9/11 research). I cannot comment much: I am not a pilot.

The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training

Nila Sagadevan | February 21 2006

Nila Sagadevan is an aeronautical engineer and a qualified pilot of heavy aircraft.

There are some who maintain that the mythical 9/11 hijackers, although proven to be too incompetent to fly a little Cessna 172, had acquired the impressive skills that enabled them to fly airliners by training in flight simulators.

What follows is an attempt to bury this myth once and for all, because I?ve heard this ludicrous explanation bandied about, ad nauseam, on the Internet and the TV networks?invariably by people who know nothing substantive about flight simulators, flying, or even airplanes.

A common misconception non-pilots have about simulators is how ?easy? it is to operate them. They are indeed relatively easy to operate if the objective is to make a few lazy turns and frolic about in the ?open sky?. But if the intent is to execute any kind of a maneuver with even the least bit of precision, the task immediately becomes quite daunting. And if the aim is to navigate to a specific geographic location hundreds of miles away while flying at over 500 MPH, 30,000 feet above the ground the challenges become virtually impossible for an untrained pilot.

And this, precisely, is what the four hijacker pilots who could not fly a Cessna around an airport are alleged to have accomplished in multi-ton, high-speed commercial jets on 9/11.

For a person not conversant with the practical complexities of pilotage, a modern flight simulator could present a terribly confusing and disorienting experience. These complex training devices are not even remotely similar to the video games one sees in amusement arcades, or even the software versions available for home computers.

In order to operate a modern flight simulator with any level of skill, one has to not only be a decent pilot to begin with, but also a skilled instrument-rated one to boot ? and be thoroughly familiar with the actual aircraft type the simulator represents, since the cockpit layouts vary between aircraft.

The only flight domains where an arcade/PC-type game would even begin to approach the degree of visual realism of a modern professional flight simulator would be during the take-off and landing phases. During these phases, of course, one clearly sees the bright runway lights stretched out ahead, and even peripherally sees images of buildings, etc. moving past. Take-offs?even landings, to a certain degree?are relatively ?easy?, because the pilot has visual reference cues that exist ?outside? the cockpit.

But once you?ve rotated, climbed out, and reached cruising altitude in a simulator (or real airplane), and find yourself en route to some distant destination (using sophisticated electronic navigation techniques), the situation changes drastically: the pilot loses virtually all external visual reference cues. S/he is left entirely at the mercy of an array of complex flight and navigation instruments to provide situational cues (altitude, heading, speed, attitude, etc.)

In the case of a Boeing 757 or 767, the pilot would be faced with an EFIS (Electronic Flight Instrumentation System) panel comprised of six large multi-mode LCDs interspersed with clusters of assorted ?hard? instruments. These displays process the raw aircraft system and flight data into an integrated picture of the aircraft situation, position and progress, not only in horizontal and vertical dimensions, but also with regard to time and speed as well. When flying ?blind?, I.e., with no ground reference cues, it takes a highly skilled pilot to interpret, and then apply, this data intelligently. If one cannot translate this information quickly, precisely and accurately (and it takes an instrument-rated pilot to do so), one would have ZERO SITUATIONAL AWARENESS. I.e., the pilot wouldn?t have a clue where s/he was in relation to the earth. Flight under such conditions is referred to as ?IFR?, or Instrument Flight Rules.

And IFR Rule #1: Never take your eyes off your instruments, because that?s all you have!

The corollary to Rule #1: If you can?t read the instruments in a quick, smooth, disciplined, scan, you?re as good as dead. Accident records from around the world are replete with reports of any number of good pilots ? I.e., professional instrument-rated pilots ? who ?bought the farm? because they screwed up while flying in IFR conditions.

Let me place this in the context of the 9/11 hijacker-pilots. These men were repeatedly deemed incompetent to solo a simple Cessna-172 ? an elementary exercise that involves flying this little trainer once around the patch on a sunny day. A student?s first solo flight involves a simple circuit: take-off, followed by four gentle left turns ending with a landing back on the runway. This is as basic as flying can possibly get.

Not one of the hijackers was deemed fit to perform this most elementary exercise by himself.

In fact, here?s what their flight instructors had to say about the aptitude of these budding aviators:

Mohammed Atta: "His attention span was zero."

Khalid Al-Mihdhar: "We didn't kick him out, but he didn't live up to our standards."

Marwan Al-Shehhi: ?He was dropped because of his limited English and incompetence at the controls.?

Salem Al-Hazmi: "We advised him to quit after two lessons.?

Hani Hanjour: "His English was horrible, and his mechanical skills were even worse. It was like he had hardly even ever driven a car. I?m still to this day amazed that he could have flown into the Pentagon. He could not fly at all.?

Now let?s take a look at American Airlines Flight 77. Passenger/hijacker Hani Hanjour rises from his seat midway through the flight, viciously fights his way into the cockpit with his cohorts, overpowers Captain Charles F. Burlingame and First Officer David Charlebois, and somehow manages to toss them out of the cockpit (for starters, very difficult to achieve in a cramped environment without inadvertently impacting the yoke and thereby disengaging the autopilot). One would correctly presume that this would present considerable difficulties to a little guy with a box cutter?Burlingame was a tough, burly, ex-Vietnam F4 fighter jock who had flown over 100 combat missions. Every pilot who knows him says that rather than politely hand over the controls, Burlingame would have instantly rolled the plane on its back so that Hanjour would have broken his neck when he hit the floor. But let?s ignore this almost natural reaction expected of a fighter pilot and proceed with this charade.

More...


 

jpeyton

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This is also covered in the excellent 9/11 Loose Change 2nd Edition.

There is way too much questionable information regarding what happened at the Pentagon on 9/11, and the pilot mentioned above is one of the things that needs to be examined. The guy couldn't qualify to rent a single-engined lightweight aircraft, yet he was doing near impossible (not my words, the words of airline pilots who have flown Boeing 757s) manuevers at high speeds with a large passenger plane and crashed it right into the bottom floor of the Pentagon without leaving a mark on the front lawn. Oh yeah, and the whole plane was vaporized upon impact by the jet fuel. :roll:

There were at least three cameras filming the crash at the Pentagon when it happened, but ZERO footage showing the plane has been released to the public to this day. What are they hiding?
 

1prophet

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If you look hard enough for a witch you will find them.

Question is do you burn them at the stake when you do so your beliefs may be justified?
 

Snoop

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When flying ?blind?, I.e., with no ground reference cues, it takes a highly skilled pilot to interpret, and then apply, this data intelligently. If one cannot translate this information quickly, precisely and accurately (and it takes an instrument-rated pilot to do so), one would have ZERO SITUATIONAL AWARENESS. I.e., the pilot wouldn?t have a clue where s/he was in relation to the earth. Flight under such conditions is referred to as ?IFR?, or Instrument Flight Rules.

I do agree that their is little chance that a highjacker could hand a plane like this is true IFR conditions (nightime, or complete cloud cover/fog), but from the pictures, it was clear blue skies and doesnt look like anything near IFR. Pic.



 

alchemize

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Mar 24, 2000
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
This is also covered in the excellent 9/11 Loose Change 2nd Edition.

There is way too much questionable information regarding what happened at the Pentagon on 9/11, and the pilot mentioned above is one of the things that needs to be examined. The guy couldn't qualify to rent a single-engined lightweight aircraft, yet he was doing near impossible (not my words, the words of airline pilots who have flown Boeing 757s) manuevers at high speeds with a large passenger plane and crashed it right into the bottom floor of the Pentagon without leaving a mark on the front lawn. Oh yeah, and the whole plane was vaporized upon impact by the jet fuel. :roll:

There were at least three cameras filming the crash at the Pentagon when it happened, but ZERO footage showing the plane has been released to the public to this day. What are they hiding?

They are hiding an entire planeload of people at the north pole. Santa Claus did it :roll:

Any of the intellectual left care to explain how an entire plane load of people vanishes?
 

jpeyton

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Originally posted by: 1prophet
If you look hard enough for a witch you will find them.

Question is do you burn them at the stake when you do so your beliefs may be justified?

No need to look hard if they released even one frame of video captured from the cameras aimed at the Pentagon showing the plane, instead of confiscating and locking away the tapes right after it occurred.

Why would a commercial airline pilot risk their crediblity by going on the record saying that the hijacker's manuevers were impossible to perform?

Why was there a hole punched through the reinforced walls of the internal rings of the Pentagon where the soft aluminum nose of the plane supposedly struck, but no holes where the steel and titanium engines struck the Pentagon (let alone any engine debris)?

I would like someone in the Bush administration to explain why the debris pattern of the flight that struck the Pentagon & Flight 93 (which crashed in PA) both defied conventional debris patterns for every other airline crash since the invention of modern commercial airliners? Was there special pixie dust in the fuel to make every piece of wreckage evaporate into thin air?
 

jpeyton

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Originally posted by: alchemize
They are hiding an entire planeload of people at the north pole. Santa Claus did it :roll:

Any of the intellectual left care to explain how an entire plane load of people vanishes?

Good question. If the plane disappeared into the Pentagon, shouldn't it be on video somewhere? :D We have tons of footage on the twin towers; what are they hiding in the Pentagon footage?
 

alchemize

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Mar 24, 2000
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: 1prophet
If you look hard enough for a witch you will find them.

Question is do you burn them at the stake when you do so your beliefs may be justified?

No need to look hard if they released even one frame of video captured from the cameras aimed at the Pentagon showing the plane, instead of confiscating and locking away the tapes right after it occurred.

Why would a commercial airline pilot risk their crediblity by going on the record saying that the hijacker's manuevers were impossible to perform?

Why was there a hole punched through the reinforced walls of the internal rings of the Pentagon where the soft aluminum nose of the plane supposed struck, but no holes where the steel and titanium engines struck the Pentagon (let alone any engine debris)?

I would like someone in the Bush administration to explain why the debris pattern of the flight that struck the Pentagon & Flight 93 (which crashed in PA) both defied conventional debris patterns for every other airline crash since the invention of modern commercial airliners? Was there special pixie dust in the fuel to make every piece of wreckage evaporate into thin air?

Heh you actually BELIEVE this garbage. Anything to feed your hate I suppose. You've been sprinkled with a bit too much Pixie dust yourself...answer my question, what happened to the passengers?
 

jpeyton

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Originally posted by: alchemize
Heh you actually BELIEVE this garbage. Anything to feed your hate I suppose. You've been sprinkled with a bit too much Pixie dust yourself...answer my question, what happened to the passengers?

I can tell you where they were not...and that is at the Pentagon on 9/11. Now you answer some questions...why do aviation officials say it is near impossible to pilot a commercial jetliner in the manner supposedly done by the hijackers in Washington DC on 9/11? Why did all the major structures of the plane vaporize? Why is there a single circular hole punched through the Pentagon (reminicent of a missile strike) but no holes where the wings or engines struck the Pentagon (in fact, windows were left in tact on either side of the single hole, suggesting that no wings or engines ever struck the building)?

Oh I'm sorry, you probably can't answer questions that require questioning your fearless leader.
 

RichardE

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Now now..everyone who saw what happened..and saw the evidence..you are all forgetting to use your doublethink..common now, get to it. :)
 

jpeyton

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Originally posted by: RichardE
Now now..everyone who saw what happened..and saw the evidence..you are all forgetting to use your doublethink..common now, get to it. :)

Actually we never saw what happened to the Pentagon, only the aftermath. Unless the FBI released the video footage of the missi...ahem...plane crashing into the side of the Pentagon to you.
 

Votingisanillusion

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Another pilot concurs:

Former Vietnam Combat and Commercial Pilot: 9/11 Was an Inside Job

http://www.arcticbeacon.com/17-Jul-2005.html

By Greg Szymanski

There was no fooling former Air Force and commercial pilot Russ Wittenberg the morning of 9/11. He knew it was an inside job from the get-go, knowing the ?big boys? were up to the same dirty tricks they played in the Kennedy assassination and Pearl Harbor.

The government may have fooled millions of Americans with its cockamamie official story, but the former fighter pilot who flew over 100 combat missions in Vietnam and who sat for 35 years in the cockpit for Pan Am and United, wasn?t one of them.

Now, almost four years later, Wittenberg is still shaking his head in disbelief, saying the country he loved and fought so bravely 40 years ago has fallen in the deep, dark and sinister hands of fascist leaders who are quickly turning America into a military state.

Although back in the beginning he seemed like a lone wolf in the hen house, he?s noticed, especially in the last six months, more Americans waking up to the cold reality that the U.S. government staged 9/1l, started an illegal war in Iraq and basically is criminally responsible for killing hundreds of thousands of innocent lives here and abroad.


Even though it?s a hard pill for some to swallow, Wittenberg says Americans need to ?wake up and wake up fast,? holding those in government responsible even though it may mean a total makeover of the American political system.

And for these despicable actions now taking place in the name of freedom, the former F-100 Vietnam fighter pilot, who knows what it?s like to be in harms way, directed a little military jab toward the Commander in Chief, saying: ?Oh, why doesn?t he wake up and just fall on his sword.?

Talking about his obvious disgust for the Bush administration, he bundles 9/11 into the neo cons' ?neat little contrived war package,? saying it was the linchpin needed to usher in a state of constant fear, a climate of war and a perfect setting for the unconstitutional Patriot Act and eventual martial law.

?If you would have told me back in the 1970s this was going to happen to America, I would have never imagined it. It?s just not the same country I grew up in as all our Constitutional freedoms are being stripped away right before our very eyes,? said Wittenberg in a telephone conversation from his home in Carefree Az., a picturesque and serene place near Scottsdale.

?The government story they handed us about 9/11 is total B.S., plain and simple. I also thoroughly went over the recent 9/11 Commission report, finding about 110 outright lies and numerous other half-truths and omissions in an obvious cover-up of not only the truth but of a criminal investigation.

?Condoleezza Rice lied through her teeth when she testified and if I would have had her on the stand for 10 minutes, I would have had her in tears.?

Concerning 9/11, Wittenberg knew right off the bat the hijackers - who couldn?t handle a Piper Cub - couldn?t fly the ?big birds? he flew for so many years, knowing the planes were also incapable of performing such high speed maneuvers as the government claimed.

He also knew the possibility of jet fuel bringing down the towers made no sense.

In fact, he knew the whole 9/11 story made about as much sense as crossing the Atlantic in a row boat.

And right after 9/11 when it was unpopular and considered almost treasonous to question the government, Wittenberg became the first commercial airline pilot with experience flying the jets used in 9/11 to publicly denounce the government story.

Although speaking publicly on many occasions about the fictitious government account of 9/11, it wasn?t until Sept. 16, 2004, his controversial remarks aired on Wing TV, sparking a heated debate among pilots and others clinging to the flimsy government account.

Knowing the flight characteristics of the ?big birds? like the back of his hand, Wittenberg convincingly argued there was absolutely no possibility that Flight 77 could have ?descended 7,000 feet in two minutes, all the while performing a steep 270 degree banked turn before crashing into the Pentagon?s first floor wall without touching the lawn.?

Wittenberg claimed the high speed maneuver would have surely stalled the jetliner sending it into a nose dive, adding it was ?totally impossible for an amateur who couldn?t even fly a Cessna to maneuver the jetliner in such a highly professional manner, something Wittenberg said he couldn?t do with 35 years of commercial jetliner experience.

?For a guy to just jump into the cockpit and fly like an ace is impossible ? there is not one chance in a thousand,? said Wittenberg, recalling that when he made the jump from Boeing 727?s to the highly sophisticated computerized characteristics of the 737?s through 767?s it took him considerable time to feel comfortable flying.

?I had to be trained to use the new, computerized systems. I just couldn?t jump in and fly one,? he added.

Finding more inconsistencies with the government story about Flight 77, Wittenberg recalled the recent statements made by a flight controller on an ABC 20/20 television program three months ago.

?If you listened to her carefully only an experienced pilot probably would have known that what she was saying was scripted,? said Wittenberg. ?Remember the transponder was turned off on Flight 77 and when this occurs, all the particular flight data like air speed and even the plane?s flight identification goes with it.

?All that?s left on the controller?s screen is a green blip, that?s it. But here you have this flight controller on 20/20 saying she was tracking the flight with specific air speed and other coordinates which was totally impossible once the transponder was turned off. How would she even have known the flight number? The whole story is a pack of lies and this is just another example.?


And from the moment Wittenberg called attention to the lies, he?s been in the cross hairs defending his story, defending it by using a little bit of psychology, a lot of history and asking critics to answer questions before drawing conclusions.

?I?ve learned over the years, it?s hard to change anybody?s mind when they really aren?t listening,? said Wittenberg. ?So, I just decided to fire back a lot of questions to those people who believe the government story.

?I ask them -- explain how Building No.7 collapsed? I ask them -- why haven?t the ?black boxes? been recovered? I ask them to explain how jet fuel ? fuel that burns cold not hot -- could bring down two high rise structures when more than 90% of the fuel on board burned outside the buildings??

And Wittenberg has hundreds of other tough questions ready, but said it?s also important to put 9/11 and the Iraq war in a historical prospective.

?Is 9/11 and the phony war on terror any different or more serious than Pearl Harbor and World War II?,? asks Wittenberg. ?The bottom line is all wars are contrived and it is these rich bankers and financiers who have pulled the strings and who have put these contrived events like 9/11 and Pearl Harbor into motion.?

Turning to the recent London bombings, Wittenberg said he?s tired of the ?talking heads? trying to analyze how to counter terror when ?the real cause and effect issues? about the root problems with America and the world are being ignored.

?It?s simply bizarre. Maybe our one-sided foreign policy that keeps getting us into all this trouble around the world should be seriously questioned,? said Wittenberg. ?If we are really fighting terror, why are our borders just to the south completely wide open? It?s a joke.?

Claiming the entire neo con scenario now playing out in America and around the world is based on the attempt to establish a one world government controlled by a select few, he said it?s difficult to figure out their true motives, adding he can only offer an educated guess based on what he?s studied and read.

?Power corrupts, money isn?t enough and these people want total control,? added Wittenberg. ?These elites actually think they are better than everybody else and basically want power and control over the diminishing resources by creating a one world government.

Regarding another terror attack on American soil coming on the heels of the London bombings, he said ?it?s not if but when,? claiming the unconstitutional Patriot Act is waiting in the wings to silence those Americans who may not fall in line with the government?s eventual takeover.

?They passed it for a reason. The problem with our two party system is that the same group of gangsters controls both parties,? said Wittenberg, who didn?t vote for Bush or Kerry in the last election and was the former Arizona state chairman for Pat Buchanon?s failed presidential run in 2000.

Although Wittenberg remains politically active and abreast of world affairs, he has left the political forefront, trying instead to raise public awareness about the danger of the neo con agenda.

?More people are listening now, but it doesn?t surprise me that still a lot of people just don?t want to get involved, thinking things are just fine in America,? he added. ?These people are perfectly content to play golf, watch the ballgame and not get involved.?

Wittenberg, who retired the day before 9/11 having a strange and unexplainable premonition, said high gas prices have led him to sell his private plane, saying it was getting too expensive to even ?fly for fun? anymore.



For more informative articles, go to www.arcticbeacon.com where donations are accepted to keep the news flowing.

ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED
http://www.lewisnews.com/article.asp?ID=106623

Former Vietnam Combat and Commericail Pilot Firm Believer 9/11 Was Inside Government Job
Posted on: 7/17/2005 7:54:00 AM - Columnist

By Greg Szymanski
 

jpeyton

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Knowing the flight characteristics of the ?big birds? like the back of his hand, Wittenberg convincingly argued there was absolutely no possibility that Flight 77 could have ?descended 7,000 feet in two minutes, all the while performing a steep 270 degree banked turn before crashing into the Pentagon?s first floor wall without touching the lawn.?

Wittenberg claimed the high speed maneuver would have surely stalled the jetliner sending it into a nose dive, adding it was ?totally impossible for an amateur who couldn?t even fly a Cessna to maneuver the jetliner in such a highly professional manner, something Wittenberg said he couldn?t do with 35 years of commercial jetliner experience.
But...but...but...e-jockeys like alchemize and RichardE swear that those manuevers were possible, with all their first hand knowledge of flying jetliners and all :roll:

Quickly guys, we need to start Vietnam Pilots For Truth ASAP and ship this guy back to Ho Chi Minh City in a crate.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
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Originally posted by: jpeyton

There were at least three cameras filming the crash at the Pentagon when it happened, but ZERO footage showing the plane has been released to the public to this day. What are they hiding?

Not one part of a plane either. Very odd indeed.
 

jpeyton

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Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: jpeyton

There were at least three cameras filming the crash at the Pentagon when it happened, but ZERO footage showing the plane has been released to the public to this day. What are they hiding?

Not one part of a plane either. Very odd indeed.

There are parts, just not parts from a Boeing 757. What happened to the nose, the entire cabin section, the tail, the rear stabilizers, the wings, and the engines? Poof, they're gone?
 

marvdmartian

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Apr 12, 2002
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Not taking one side or the other, I pose this question:

How difficult would it have been for a decently trained pilot to act incompetent in front of a flight school instructor, as though they were incapable of handling the aircraft?? Especially if they wanted to have that same instructor state later on as to how incompetent that person was at the controls of the aircraft??

Has anyone ever considered the real possibility of false intelligence?? :confused:

Also, realistically.....if someone knew enough about the workings of an aircraft, and were capable of monitoring the following:
1. airspeed
2. altitude
3. artificial horizon,
AND knew enough about the workings of the automatic pilot to be able to reprogram it, how difficult would it have been to simply plug in the gps coordinates for their targets (twin towers, pentagon, etc) and the altitude they wanted to be at when they got there, then take over the controls just long enough so they could hit their target??

Like I said, I'm not taking anyone's side here, I'm simply playing devil's advocate. If I can make even one person think by asking these questions, I've done my job. :)
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: alchemize
Heh you actually BELIEVE this garbage. Anything to feed your hate I suppose. You've been sprinkled with a bit too much Pixie dust yourself...answer my question, what happened to the passengers?

I can tell you where they were not...and that is at the Pentagon on 9/11. Now you answer some questions...why do aviation officials say it is near impossible to pilot a commercial jetliner in the manner supposedly done by the hijackers in Washington DC on 9/11? Why did all the major structures of the plane vaporize? Why is there a single circular hole punched through the Pentagon (reminicent of a missile strike) but no holes where the wings or engines struck the Pentagon (in fact, windows were left in tact on either side of the single hole, suggesting that no wings or engines ever struck the building)?

Oh I'm sorry, you probably can't answer questions that require questioning your fearless leader.

So your supremely superior leftist mind believes that somehow 4 jetliners of people did the following:

1) Were boarded (and seen off by many families, friends, business associates, etc.)
2) Took off, witnessed by ATC and many others.
3) INSERT LEFTIST TINFOIL EXPLANATION HERE>>> Then they vanished! Of course, Air Traffic Control was in on it, because they are under the mind control of the CIA. So they faked the tapes showing their course, transponder settings, etc. Of course, the pilots were under mind control also, so they had them fly them to the north pole and crash land and live with Santa forever. Then they faked those audio tapes also. Then they substituted military planes, because they figured that would be much cleaner that way. It's much easier to get a military pilot to kill himself than a commercial airliner pilot right? Then they fired a missile at the Pentagon, because that 4th pilot was having a bad hair day.<<<INSERT LEFTIST TINFOIL EXPLANATION HERE

And for your information, I'm a private pilot. Are you? I've flown a plane many times, have you? It ain't that hard once you are airborne. Landing and navigating are the hard part, and I did it in the old days via VOR and dead reckoning before they had GPS.

You haven't answered my question yet. What happened to the passengers, pilots and crew? Oh, I'm sorry you probably can't answer questions that require you to pull your head out of your a...
 

jpeyton

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Originally posted by: alchemize
E-Jackoff.
Well that answers the question why you're on the forums so late at night.

The crew, passengers, and pilots were dead one way or the other.

And for the record, you're saying that the hijacker was able to descend 7,000 feet in two minutes, all the while performing a steep 270 degree banked turn before crashing into the Pentagon?s first floor wall without touching the lawn?

Where did those hijackers learn to fly, Top Gun? :laugh: Keep it coming.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: alchemize
E-Jackoff.
Well that answers the question why you're on the forums so late at night.

The crew, passengers, and pilots were dead one way or the other.

And for the record, you're saying that the hijacker was able to descend 7,000 feet in two minutes, all the while performing a steep 270 degree banked turn before crashing into the Pentagon?s first floor wall without touching the lawn?

Where did those hijackers learn to fly, Top Gun? :laugh: Keep it coming.

You have no clue what you are talking about. You are a complete moron, but keep it coming!

1) There is no such thing as a "270 degree banked turn". Banked turns go from 0 to 90 degrees. IIRC plus 45 is considered a "steep turn". Try again? And yes, if you are saying the pilot turned 270 degrees while in a steep turn, big deal? Again, that was taught to me on one of my first lessons.
2) 7,000 feet in two minutes is a 3,500 FPM rate of descent. That's only 2x a STANDARD landing rate of descent (1,800 fpm) for a Boeing 757. Gee, really plunging to the earth there...

Now - what happened to the passengers? Or are you just going to continue trolling?
 

smashp

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Aug 30, 2003
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Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: alchemize
E-Jackoff.
Well that answers the question why you're on the forums so late at night.

The crew, passengers, and pilots were dead one way or the other.

And for the record, you're saying that the hijacker was able to descend 7,000 feet in two minutes, all the while performing a steep 270 degree banked turn before crashing into the Pentagon?s first floor wall without touching the lawn?

Where did those hijackers learn to fly, Top Gun? :laugh: Keep it coming.

You have no clue what you are talking about. You are a complete moron, but keep it coming!

1) There is no such thing as a "270 degree banked turn". Banked turns go from 0 to 90 degrees. IIRC plus 45 is considered a "steep turn". Try again? And yes, if you are saying the pilot turned 270 degrees while in a steep turn, big deal? Again, that was taught to me on one of my first lessons.
2) 7,000 feet in two minutes is a 3,500 FPM rate of descent. That's only 2x a STANDARD landing rate of descent (1,800 fpm) for a Boeing 757. Gee, really plunging to the earth there...

Now - what happened to the passengers? Or are you just going to continue trolling?

(devils Advocate) The bodies of the passangers of all four planes were never recovered.

They disapeered off the face of the earth.

 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
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by the way, the motivation of the pilot is clear, when you read this:

?Is 9/11 and the phony war on terror any different or more serious than Pearl Harbor and World War II?,? asks Wittenberg. ?The bottom line is all wars are contrived and it is these rich bankers and financiers who have pulled the strings and who have put these contrived events like 9/11 and Pearl Harbor into motion.?
Obviously he'll say anything. Let's get a panel of pilots together and query them, not some crackpot leftist who also flew planes at one time.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
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Originally posted by: smashp
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: alchemize
E-Jackoff.
Well that answers the question why you're on the forums so late at night.

The crew, passengers, and pilots were dead one way or the other.

And for the record, you're saying that the hijacker was able to descend 7,000 feet in two minutes, all the while performing a steep 270 degree banked turn before crashing into the Pentagon?s first floor wall without touching the lawn?

Where did those hijackers learn to fly, Top Gun? :laugh: Keep it coming.

You have no clue what you are talking about. You are a complete moron, but keep it coming!

1) There is no such thing as a "270 degree banked turn". Banked turns go from 0 to 90 degrees. IIRC plus 45 is considered a "steep turn". Try again? And yes, if you are saying the pilot turned 270 degrees while in a steep turn, big deal? Again, that was taught to me on one of my first lessons.
2) 7,000 feet in two minutes is a 3,500 FPM rate of descent. That's only 2x a STANDARD landing rate of descent (1,800 fpm) for a Boeing 757. Gee, really plunging to the earth there...

Now - what happened to the passengers? Or are you just going to continue trolling?

(devils Advocate) The bodies of the passangers of all four planes were never recovered.

They disapeered off the face of the earth.

They recovered bits and pieces. A fingertip here, a piece of tissue there, a bone fragment over there.

I think all these tinfoilies should go to all the homes of the families and ask them why they aren't outraged? See what kind of response they get. It's the ultimate in disrespect.