8x AGP MB for P4 Processor (overclocking)

[SammyXp]

I bought a Dell Dimension 2350 last year and foolishly just bought an 8xAGP (nVidia GeForce4) graphics card, assuming the Dell MB would have an AGP port. Not so. I considered returning the nVidia in exchange for a PCI video card but figured it would be a waste to limit myself.
What cheap (~$50) motherboard would you recommend for my system?
Current chipset is i845GL

System specs:
Intel P4 2.0GHz
100MHz FSB, 20x Multiplier
400MHz Bus
512K L2 Cache
640MB PC2100 (133MHz) DDR SDRAM
30GB HD (Ultra ATA)

Thanks in advance

 

[SammyXp]

Requirements changed. Listed below...

 

[imported_Kiwi]

Before investing in a new MB, make certain that the Dimension 2350 accepts ATX or mATX motherboards. Many Dell PC's use proprietary parts, particularly the MB's and PSU's. You might be able to use the new MB but end up needing either a new PSU or a few adapter pieces to allow it to work. For the most part, you want to be very cautious about buying ECS and/or PC Chips products. Quality control isn't a strong suit for either one.

Most certainly don't overlook the Shuttle motherboards. They are available at reasonable prices while being more bang for those bucks than anyone in that price range. For an AMD CPU, you can't go far wrong with Shuttle's AN35.

 

[SammyXp]

Kiwi, thanks for the response. I'll shy away from ECS and PCchips.
Looking inside the Dell 2350, I've definitely got a m-ATX MB and I think I would like to stick with that, to be able to retain Dell's fooling ducting and general layout to improve ease of assembly.
So that does limit me. The boards I listed above are all m-ATX.
There is a Shuttle MB I considered, but it is not m-ATX...
$57 - Shuttle AV49PN VIA PT800 P4 800FSB Skt478 DDR ATX Motherboard w/Audio, LAN, Serial ATA Retail 400/533/800FSB, ATA/133, AGP 8X, 2DDR DIMM, 4PCI, USB 2.0, Audio, LAN, SATA

I won't be able to fit a full size ATX MB into my case, will I?

As for proprietary parts, I might call Dell and confirm, but I would hope that my Socket 478 P4 should plug right into the new MB. What are you reffering to by PSU? Power Supply? Anything I should look for to determine whether or not it is standard or proprietary?

Thanks again for your help.

 

[SammyXp]

Well it appears that it will be too difficult to adapt a new MB to the Dell PSU and case so I decided to pick up a new case/PSU and free up my options for a new MB.

I'm contemplating the following right now:
$50 - Shuttle AV49VN P4X400
$63 - ASUS P4S800 SiS648FX
$64 - Gigabyte 8S648FX-RZ SiS648FX
$63 - Intel BOXD865PCDL i865P

Any of these I should stay away from? Any others you might recommend?
I currently have:
Intel P4 2.0GHz CPU
PC2100 DDR SDRAM
nVidia GeForce4 MX4000 8x AGP 128MB DDR Video
ATX or m-ATX

Thanks!

 

[stevennoland]

What are you going to be using this rig for? If your gonna do any SERIOUS gaming then you might want to scrap the whole thing and start new. If you want to continue upgrading, I would get a mobo that has at least support for SATA. Sorry you bought a DELL. Yuk!

 

[SammyXp]

Originally posted by: stevennoland
What are you going to be using this rig for? If your gonna do any SERIOUS gaming then you might want to scrap the whole thing and start new. If you want to continue upgrading, I would get a mobo that has at least support for SATA. Sorry you bought a DELL. Yuk!

I use this computer for basic web surfing, some work (Word, Excel) and occasional 3D modeling (Pro/Engineer), but I do some occasional gaming (Sims2, GTR, Half LIfe) and I'd like to make the machine competent. Scrapping the entire system isn't an option right now. I don't regret buying the Dell since it has been rocksteady reliable and quite competent until we installed Sims2 and the need for a T&L graphics card surfaced. So long as we can play the game smoothly, we're happy (my wife and I).

Man, SATA sounds nice. I may try to contact newegg and see if they'll let me upgrade to the P4P800S for another $6. Do you need a Hard Drive that specifically has SATA?

 

[SammyXp]

BTW, I went ahead and ordered an Asus P4S800 and a Dynapower case w/ 430w PSU (based on a few recommendations on this site). Total came to $100. It'll allow me to use the GeForce4 card and should play the games just fine. A friend of mine had their MB go bad on their Dell Dimension 2350 so I'm going to donate it to them so they can get back up and running.
I might just have a little fun trying my hand at overclocking again, too. It's been a while, but the basics seem to be the same (other than a few things like locked multipliers and fixed PCI). Any recommendations? The cooling duct system on the Dell is pretty impressive and I plan on switching it over to the Dynapower case.

 

[o1die]

I like those cooling ducts too. Don't know if the clips will work on your new case. If they don't, I suggest you get the stock Intel aluminum heatsink from arsenal computers (about $9 pricewatch). There are better ones out there, but the stock Intel is reasonably quiet and will allow for some modest overclocking. I have the copper version, but it's noisier. For overclocking, if your new asus board has no agp/pci lock, then I would try 150 fsb for your cpu setting, and run it awhile to see how stable it is at the default voltage setting. If you have any stability issues, try bumping up the voltage to 1.55. Without the agp/pci lock, I wouldn't run your cpu higher than 160 fsb.

 

[SammyXp]

I'm sure I can make the duct work with my new case. I'll give this Dell Heatsink a try for a while and if it doesn't keep temps down, I'm pretty impressed with the looks of those heat pipe Thermaltake heat sinks!

The ASUS P4S800 has AGP/PCI lock but I don't plan on going very high, anyway. The stock FSB setting for a P4 Northwood 2.0A is 100, right? I was planning on trying 133. With the multiplier locked at 20x, that would put the CPU at 2.6. I've got Kingston PC2100 DDR SDRAM, will that be able to handle 150MHz, or can you set the memory clock speed individually?

Here are the overclocking features I've got with the ASUS P4S800...
ASUS JumperFree
ASUS C.P.R.(CPU Parameter Recall)
CPU, Memory, and AGP voltage adjustable
SFS (Stepless Frequency Selection) from 100MHz up to 266MHz at 1MHz increment
Adjustable FSB/DDR ratio, Fixed AGP/PCI frequencies

Thanks for the help!

 

[DAPUNISHER]

To overclock you will probably need to use the divider so that the ram starts underclocked. Of course some 2100DDR will run 2700DDR no problem, I had Crucial that would do it on just a slight voltage bump. I would start with the divider and be certain the CPU will take it, then if it's stable try bringing the ram along for the ride.

 

[SammyXp]

Good idea. That way, if something goes wrong, I've only made one change that I can blame.

 

[SammyXp]

Well I swapped in the ASUS P4S800 motherboard with no glitches. Didn't even have to reinstall Windows XP or even get a new product key from Dell or Microsoft! I was warned that the key code might end up being a problem.
Ran a quick 3DMark with the new MB and Graphics Card and got a 152. Not bad, considering my score with the integrated graphics never exceeded 50, but I have to admit I was expecting more. I'll need to tune it a bit more and then look at overclocking.
This Dell Fan/Case Fan/Green Shroud thingie is buzzing and I'm not too confident in its abilities to keep it cool. It says 34C in BIOS but shows up a lot higher in MBM5. Dunno why.