8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[Ranulf]

Ok, with Rigg's settings aka Ultra but High textures, no upscaling etc.. Game definately looked better. I instantly got a warning about high memory usage. Est usage is 6.04GB as in first screenshot. Lows were much like the dlss version, maybe a bit lower at 17 or so. Playable at 36.78fps according to game.

Spoiler: No AI, No RT, Ultra but high textures

 

[Ranulf]

Would have been good to see how much vram you guys are using on those runs.

What version of Afterburner is best to use these days?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

What version of Afterburner is best to use these days?

I am using the recent iteration on the official MSI site.

 

[Rigg]

Ok, with Rigg's settings aka Ultra but High textures, no upscaling etc.. Game definately looked better. I instantly got a warning about high memory usage. Est usage is 6.04GB as in first screenshot. Lows were much like the dlss version, maybe a bit lower at 17 or so. Playable at 36.78fps according to game.

Spoiler: No AI, No RT, Ultra but high textures

View attachment 125339


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I looked at them side by side and the rocks section looks basically identical to my eye. On the closeup of the raptor it looks like textures might be slightly blurry in comparison. I'm not sure if there really is a difference here. Anything I am noticing could be because my screenshots are 2560x1440 vs yours being at 1920x1080. That shouldn't really matter though since the scene is rendered at 1920x1080. Either way it looks way better than TPU guy's screenshots. Hell, the FSR images look better than those.

Spoiler: Raptor Comparison

 

[Ranulf]

Thanks, that is where I went, beta version5 or whatever. I don't know why frametimes didn't show up, thought I put them in OSD but here are a few shots. It seemed to hover at 7.5GB vram usage most of the time, mostly 6.5Gb to 7.5GB. I saw it hit 8GB briefly on a scene transition.

Edit to add shot of ram estimation with ultra textures at 7.48GB (these shots are with high textures not ultra to be clear):

Also edit2: Notice the system ram usage, 17.6GB.

Spoiler: vram pics

 

[Rigg]

Would have been good to see how much vram you guys are using on those runs.

@Rigg - His video looks blurry too. He has no idea what it can look like...

If I could figure out how to turn on the damn performance overlay on bazzite gnome I would have. Sorry about that. I think you might need to run bazzite deck or the KDE version to use this.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Leo obviously hasn't been reading the 8GB defense force wars. He added this infographic to his latest CPU testing 😂

 

[jpiniero]

^^^^

They are going to have to if they buy a sub-Entry Level GPU.

 

[maddie]

^^^^

They are going to have to if they buy a sub-Entry Level GPU.

What in the world is this class? Sounds a lot, in spirit at least, as Nvidia's die size shrinkflation.

 

[Rigg]

@Rigg

Following up our discussion in the RDNA4 thread.

After reading the post by the member you were conversing with at TPU, I used their high settings at 1080 with high ray tracing. I also used FG, which obviously does not improve IQ. So it is certainly not responsible for the drastic difference you are about to see. Homie claimed there are "no borked textures" You can't miss what was never there LOL! 🤣 Here are our respective screenshots in the same part of the bench.

EDIT: I almost nailed where they took the SS. You were right the first time, w1z's testing is poor.

Well that's swell. Now we are dealing with different levels of texture degradation. Good catch.

They deserve the vaseline graphics they happily paid for!

i think it's pretty clear the high textures look considerably worse on his setup than mine. The blurriness seen in his video and screenshots appears to be from nerfed textures.

So it turns out the blurriness found in the TPU member's video, and the screenshots that were taken from it, appear to be a result of the video capture. Once I realized he was taking screenshots from the captured video(s) I asked him to take a set of screenshots directly from the benchmark while it was running. After comparing his new screenshots to my own and @Ranulf 's the IQ looks the same to me. I think I feel pretty safe saying at this point that the texture issues in this game on 8 GB cards are exclusive to the hi-res texture pack DLC.

Spoiler

 

[blckgrffn]

^^^^

They are going to have to if they buy a sub-Entry Level GPU.

Seems like a harsh way to characterize all 8GB gpus at this point, but if that's how we are rolling I'll get on that bus.

 

[Golgatha]

Seems like an accurate way to characterize all 8GB gpus at this point, but if that's how we are rolling I'll get on that bus.

FTFY

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I think I feel pretty safe saying at this point that the texture issues in this game on 8 GB cards are exclusive to the hi-res texture pack DLC.

Before you call the ball, pixel peep a bit closer like I did. I downloaded this one from @Ranulf with ultra settings but high textures and compared it to the one I took at high with high textures. Zoom in on both images and look at the little dude's helmet that is riding on the back.

Spoiler: No AI, No RT, Ultra but high textures

View attachment 125340

Spoiler: screenshots

View attachment 125304

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Seems like a harsh way to characterize all 8GB gpus at this point, but if that's how we are rolling I'll get on that bus.

$400 is sub entry level. Seems legit.

 

[Rigg]

Before you call the ball, pixel peep a bit closer like I did. I downloaded this one from @Ranulf with ultra settings but high textures and compared it to the one I took at high with high textures. Zoom in on both images and look at the little dude's helmet that is riding on the back.

I see what you mean. It's kind of weird though. I can see the extra detail in your screenshot but it still looks pretty much identical to mine. Pretty sure this a LOD thing. The camera is much closer to the characters in your screenshot. I'll try to get one that's more comparable on my rig.

Spoiler

 

[Rigg]

I'll try to get one that's more comparable on my rig.

@DAPUNISHER

It was tough to get screenshot in the exact same spot that didn't look washed out because of motion blur. This was as close as I could get. I also took one from earlier in the scene where you can more clearly see the texture details. I also switched to FSR native AA.

Spoiler

 

[DAPUNISHER]

LOLz It increases my respect for pros like Aussie Steve doing this stuff; that's for certain!

 

[Ranulf]

LOLz It increases my respect for pros like Aussie Steve doing this stuff; that's for certain!

Steve gave a shout out to the people noting the vram thing over the past few years in the pci-e video. I don't envy reviewers with a lot of this stuff, especially now where you really need to do more in depth looks at performance then basic benchmarks.

 

[Rigg]

LOLz It increases my respect for pros like Aussie Steve doing this stuff; that's for certain!

Absolutely. Game testing is not easy. It's an absolute minefield of variables. Especially when testing VRAM limitations. I really like the recent shift to video with a performance overlay over bar graphs that HUB has made for testing 8 GB cards. Daniel Owen does a great job with this as well. I wish I would have paid more attention to his stuff previously. I've only been subscribed to his channel a few months. I'm tempted to try and reach out to him about the hi-res texture pack DLC thing in Monster Hunter Wilds. I'd hate to see it used as a way to discredit him.

 

[Iron Woode]

I tried out the MHW benchmark:



No upscaling, no RT and aniso of 8x everything was left to default.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Click bait title, but good examples of 8GB making sad trombone noises

 

[blckgrffn]

Click bait title, but good examples of 8GB making sad trombone noises

Sub entry level trombone noises? Pretty sad bad.

 

[marees]

Snowdrop engine — star wars outlaws
VRAM bottlenecked at 1080p quality upscaling

there is some VRAM limiting going on in this game on 8GB cards, even at 1080p. Note also that the upscaling performance doesn’t scale well because we are running into VRAM limitations on the RTX 5060.​

MSI GeForce RTX 5060 8G GAMING OC Video Card Review - Page 3 of 8

The MSI GeForce RTX 5060 8G GAMING OC provides a performance upgrade in a small package, with overclocking potential, 1080p, 1440p, Upscaling, RT, tested.

www.thefpsreview.com

 

[Ranulf]

I don't get why they have such peformance issues in Outlaws. Snowdrop engine runs quite well on older hardware in Division 1 and 2.

 

[marees]

I don't get why they have such peformance issues in Outlaws. Snowdrop engine runs quite well on older hardware in Division 1 and 2.

No idea.
A google search brought this up

Character models, objects, and the environment as a whole are constructed from considerably more polygons, increasing the accuracy of smaller parts. Textures contain a lot more detail too – for example, cloth in Valhalla displays the weave of the material, and the only way that this is possible is by using higher-resolution textures.​

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This is especially noticeable in the textures used for the landscape, allowing for the ground and walls of buildings to look richer and more life-like. To enhance the realism of foliage, textures that have transparent sections to them (such as grass, leaves, ferns, etc.) are much larger in size, which aids in the blending with objects behind them.​

Why Are Modern PC Games Using So Much VRAM?

With the best graphics cards now sporting more RAM than an average PC, we look at just why games are using ever more video memory to create...

www.techspot.com

I also think that the hardware compression/decompression engines which allow fast streaming from SSDs in modern consoles encourages game devs to prioritize vram heavy gameplay for open world games