8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

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BFG10K

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
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8GB
Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.
pFJi8XrGZfYuvhvk4952je-970-80.png.webp
Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:
RE.jpg
Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:
CH.jpg

10GB / 12GB

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.
  1. It's the player's fault.
  2. It's the reviewer's fault.
  3. It's the developer's fault.
  4. It's AMD's fault.
  5. It's the game's fault.
  6. It's the driver's fault.
  7. It's a system configuration issue.
  8. Wrong settings were tested.
  9. Wrong area was tested.
  10. Wrong games were tested.
  11. 4K is irrelevant.
  12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
  13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
  14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
  15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
  16. It's an anomaly.
  17. It's a console port.
  18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
  19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
  20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
  21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.
According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!
 
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blckgrffn

blckgrffn

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jpiniero said:
Which shouldn't be surprising given the increase in costs going from cheap Samsung to expensive TSMC. That the 3060 Ti used x104 is an outlier.
Click to expand...
LMAO.

Nah. They just don't have to care about gamer gpus anymore, so they can charge what they need to keep margins growing. Aftermarket GPU sales could probably go to nothing right now and materially it wouldn't matter. AI/Datacenter is mega for them, and OEMs going to keep slinging nvidia because the sticker sells.

So we get what we get and we don't throw a fit.

Or... you don't buy/care what nvidia does? That's the direction I am going. They don't have a new GPU under (or really even close to) $500 I'd recommend right now outside of maaaaaybe the 3060. Most of the PCs I help create are sub/around $1k, so that means nvidia is a pass unless the preference is for brand over performance.
 
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blckgrffn

blckgrffn

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jpiniero said:
You're just seeing MLID in action. AMD is going to quit dGPUs if they can't get prices up.
Click to expand...
Insert name of publicly traded company here will slit their own throats in order to chase ever increasing quarterly profits. Profound.

I've got more, too.

nvidia will quit making consumer GPUs if they can because their margins are trash compared to their other ventures.

Intel will stop building fabs because in the short term its better for another company to spend their capital and take the technology risks.

Apple will quit making servers... wait, that already happened.

IBM will quit making personal... wait...

Google will cancel everything not related to ad revenue.

Microsoft will embrace SaaS as their primary revenue driver and windows will become a second class citizen just above their console business.

In the end, every company will do what makes them the most money in the short term unless they have a huge leash from their investors (see Amazon, first 10 or so years).

I expect the entire aftermarket PC scene to dry up at some point, but it keeps puttering along even though there wasn't a Comp USA or Circuit City for me to park my cold butt in front of on Friday morning.

Whatever. The world keeps spinning I guess.
 
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Thunder 57

Thunder 57

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SolidQ said:
Dont need create new thread, but i'm post here. I'm personally not agree with 3060/680(lol), where Geforce 2 or at least 3?

www.tomshardware.com

The five best Nvidia GPUs of all time: Looking back at over 20 years of Nvidia history

The best gaming GPUs from team green.
www.tomshardware.com www.tomshardware.com
Click to expand...

I wouldn't mind discussing this, but not in this thread. It is off topic. Wouldn't be a bad idea to make one. They did an AMD top 5 as well, and they are going to do worst 5 from both in the future. A thread including those four might be fun.
 
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jpiniero

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blckgrffn said:
Insert name of publicly traded company here will slit their own throats in order to chase ever increasing quarterly profits. Profound.
Click to expand...

It's not about expanding profits, it's about maintaining it. Or in AMD's case, actually making a profit.

Just don't be surprised at what AMD sells RDNA 4 for. Or tries to anyway.
 
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blckgrffn

blckgrffn

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jpiniero said:
It's not about expanding profits, it's about maintaining it. Or in AMD's case, actually making a profit.

Just don't be surprised at what AMD sells RDNA 4 for. Or tries to anyway.
Click to expand...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

We are waaaay past the point where you've been asked to post the data to back that up and it just never seems to happen. I am quite confident that their BoM allows for enough meat on the bone to keep the lights on and the paychecks flowing AMD orbital command center, not to mention continued development on the new stuff.

Nvidia moving prices north but being stingy on performance and capacity gives everyone room to grow margins. If RDNA3 had simply met the targets that were seemingly laid out, my eyes surely would have watered.

But they didn't and this is the timeline we're stuck with. I fully expect that both companies desire the entry-level "midrange" part to start at about $500 - or more - in 2024 and beyond.

If the spectre of AMD wanting to charge more but failing to do so because of their execution of RDNA3 helps you sleep at night, that's cool. But... if you want me to take you seriously about AMD margins I'd expect you to have some really juicy bits of information. Outsiders "guessing" at BoM costs are often laughably inaccurate in my experience.

In the meantime, nothing requires me to give nvidia a pass on a second consecutive generation of putting too little ram on its mainstream parts in order to artificially shorten/compromise their useful lifetimes.
 
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MrTeal

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Maybe tangentially related I guess, if you argue the decision to go with 12GB is what got it on the list.

An 8GB 3060 probably would have been ok if the bus had permitted it, but 6GB would have been pretty disastrous.
 
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Aapje

Aapje

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blckgrffn said:
Nvidia moving prices north but being stingy on performance and capacity gives everyone room to grow margins. If RDNA3 had simply met the targets that were seemingly laid out, my eyes surely would have watered.

But they didn't and this is the timeline we're stuck with. I fully expect that both companies desire the entry-level "midrange" part to start at about $500 - or more - in 2024 and beyond.
Click to expand...

On the positive side, whenever there is an outlier result, whether a company is overperforming (1080 Ti) or underperforming (RDNA3), you can normally expect a regression to the mean. So with patience and smart choices you can try to just pass the time until value for money becomes better again.

Although with these companies working two gens in advance, actual silicon fixes may take some time if there is a more fundamental problem, like what seems to be true for the chiplet design. Although low/mid-level monolithic RDNA4 chips may not have these issues and might already be good.

On the negative side, the price/performance of new production nodes seems poor, so that automatically means that price/performance of chips will not improve as fast. So perhaps we better get used to upgrading less often and expecting less progress than in the past.
In the meantime, nothing requires me to give nvidia a pass on a second consecutive generation of putting too little ram on its mainstream parts in order to artificially shorten/compromise their useful lifetimes.
Click to expand...
Indeed. Unlike AMD's relatively poor showing with RDNA3 or the poor pricing of newer Nvidia/AMD cards, where you can at least make an argument that this is either unintentional or (at least partially) out of their control, the low memory seems like it is an intentional choice to drive buyers to the pro cards, or to upgrade more often.
 
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mikeymikec

mikeymikec

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On my new PC build (Ryzen 7000, RX 6700 XT 12GB), I've just installed Horizon Zero Dawn (which was released in 2020), checked the default settings (Ultimate preset, 1080p, no upscaling), played it for a couple of minutes, and Task Manager / CPUID HwMonitor reported VRAM usage as going over 10GB (10.8 total). Not a brief spike either.

- edit - "Ultimate" rather than "Ultra" - the settings beneath the preset say "Ultra" as the max setting, whereas the max setting preset is named "Ultimate", because consistency(!).
 
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Thunder 57

Thunder 57

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mikeymikec said:
On my new PC build (Ryzen 7000, RX 6700 XT 12GB), I've just installed Horizon Zero Dawn (which was released in 2020), checked the default settings (ultra preset, 1080p, no upscaling), played it for a couple of minutes, and Task Manager / CPUID HwMonitor reported VRAM usage as going over 10GB (10.8 total). Not a brief spike either.
Click to expand...

You aren't using the "right settings".
 
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jpiniero

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blckgrffn said:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

We are waaaay past the point where you've been asked to post the data to back that up and it just never seems to happen. I am quite confident that their BoM allows for enough meat on the bone to keep the lights on and the paychecks flowing AMD orbital command center, not to mention continued development on the new stuff.
Click to expand...

Yah only have to look at N32's 6 month delay (and we now know there won't be any mobile deals) or the 7600 originally intending to be $329.

(Or Big Phoenix being basically delayed until Little Phoenix was ready. Pretty obv they needed Little Phoenix to have any real margin for the price point of Ryzen 5 with OEMs)
 
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igor_kavinski

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Timorous said:
Yea. 360p with upscaling is the only way to play anything these days.
Click to expand...
So true!

Bring back 1280x1024 max resolution supporting 19-inch monitors, using mini-LEDs for HDR. Stop making displays above 60 Hz. Higher resolutions and higher fps only foment disappointment and sleepless nights.

Let us all unite to destroy the 2K/4K/8K high fps gaming market. This is the way!
 
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Timorous

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igor_kavinski said:
So true!

Bring back 1280x1024 max resolution supporting 19-inch monitors, using mini-LEDs for HDR. Stop making displays above 60 Hz. Higher resolutions and higher fps only foment disappointment and sleepless nights.

Let us all unite to destroy the 2K/4K/8K high fps gaming market. This is the way!
Click to expand...

If we are going down to 19-inch screens might as well do CRTs again.
 
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psolord

psolord

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mikeymikec said:
On my new PC build (Ryzen 7000, RX 6700 XT 12GB), I've just installed Horizon Zero Dawn (which was released in 2020), checked the default settings (ultra preset, 1080p, no upscaling), played it for a couple of minutes, and Task Manager / CPUID HwMonitor reported VRAM usage as going over 10GB (10.8 total). Not a brief spike either.
Click to expand...
Thunder 57 said:
You aren't using the "right settings".
Click to expand...
Timorous said:
Yea. 360p with upscaling is the only way to play anything these days.
Click to expand...
BFG10K said:
Guys, guys, I'm working on a new tool to help with proper settings. Lemme know what you think, thanks!

Settings.png
Click to expand...
This is my run (non monetized) of Horizon Zero Dawn on a 8GB 3060ti and the ancient 2500K, at 4k, dlss quality, Ultimate preset. It runs fine, with both cpu and bus limits at play.


And this is my Horizon Zero Dawn run, on a 8GB GTX 1070 at 1080p, original preset. Decent run, with also cpu and bus limits at play.


Different cards, wildly different settings, same 8GB framebuffer, completely different results. The GTX 1070 could never do what the 3060ti can, so once again, it's a matter of gpu processing power and not vram.

Things are not so bad for 8GB cards as you like to think. No 360p or 240p needed. ;)
 
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psolord

psolord

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And here is a recent two day video, of a 12GB 4070ti vs a 24GB 3090. The 4070ti wins most runs and you will cry when you see the 0.1%/1% lows in Doom Eternal. Yeah vram ain't gonna save you friends.

 
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