8800 GT w/New Cooler vs 8800 GTS G92

[1ManArmY]

Originally posted by: ManWithNoName

Originally posted by: Herrterror
Got an 8800 GT for Christmas; it was ordered on BestBuy.com and picked up in-store. Was going to put it in my HTPC. The thing is loud. I figured it would be, but not like a this, a lawnmower.

Should I invest in an aftermarket cooler (like HR-03GT) or exchange for an 8800 GTS G92?

It's already opened. I can't seem to get a clear answer over phone from Best Buy support regarding my return/exchange options. I know what the site says, but I'm sure with pressure your options broaden. I just want to mitigate the sound, but the aftermarket coolers look like they take up so much space that they block further PCI slot use...

You have 30 days to return you card to Best Buy without penalty, I did the same with a X1950 Pro I bought form them. There is no restocking fee, see return policy ...

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/ol...7177044087&id=cat12098

I have a 8800GTS 512MB and I have it set to run at 60% and I can't tell the difference between that and the default 29%. It's very quiet. Performance wise it's also outstanding and overclocks well. So, if you're not comfortable changing out the cooling solution on your GT this is a good option. Although it is a dual slot cooler.

If you choose to keep the GT, you could try replacing the cooler with a Vantec VF900CU which you can get at newegg for $32. Does a very good job and doesn't take up too much space.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835118001

Here's a thread with some excellent pics of the GT with the Zalman fitted ...

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=102371

I'm about to slap a Zalman VF1000 LED on my evga 8800GT SC, the Zalman only comes with 8 RAM heatsinks, is it necessary to find heatsinks for those 12 additional RAM modules or will the Zalman VF1000 cool them passively? Where would I even be able to buy them?

 

[ManWithNoName]

Originally posted by: 1ManArmY
I'm about to slap a Zalman VF1000 LED on my evga 8800GT SC, the Zalman only comes with 8 RAM heatsinks, is it necessary to find heatsinks for those 12 additional RAM modules or will the Zalman VF1000 cool them passively? Where would I even be able to buy them?

Those extra 12 are not ram modules, I believe some of those are the VRMs and Zalman recommends that use use ramsinks for them. They make what's called a ZM-RHS88 which fits the older 8800 series, I don't know if it's designed to fit the new 8800GT or GTS though. See link ...

http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/pr...?idx=318&pr_name=rhs88

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=497

Here, just found a picture of the older 8800's PCB ......

http://www.pcper.com/images/re.../497/21-8800-naked.jpg

And here's the New 8800GT PCB ....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/ATOJAR/Naked.jpg

It doesn't look like the ZM-RHS88 will fit and you should get additional ramsinks....

 

[1ManArmY]

Originally posted by: ManWithNoName

Originally posted by: 1ManArmY
I'm about to slap a Zalman VF1000 LED on my evga 8800GT SC, the Zalman only comes with 8 RAM heatsinks, is it necessary to find heatsinks for those 12 additional RAM modules or will the Zalman VF1000 cool them passively? Where would I even be able to buy them?

Those extra 12 are not ram modules, I believe some of those are the VRMs and Zalman recommends that use use ramsinks for them. They make what's called a ZM-RHS88 which fits the older 8800 series, I don't know if it's designed to fit the new 8800GT or GTS though. See link ...

http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/pr...?idx=318&pr_name=rhs88

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=497

Just found a picture of the older 8800's PCB, it's a very different design ....

http://www.pcper.com/images/re.../497/21-8800-naked.jpg

So it doesn't lookl like the ZM-RHS88 will fit. So it looks like you should get additional ramsinks....

will the VF1000 cool them passively?, ZM-RHS88 is only for the GTX/GTS (G80) Where would I purchase them? The Hardcorp review of the Zalman VF1000 didn't use any additional ramsinks on there 8800 GT?

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: 1ManArmY
I'm about to slap a Zalman VF1000 LED on my evga 8800GT SC, the Zalman only comes with 8 RAM heatsinks, is it necessary to find heatsinks for those 12 additional RAM modules or will the Zalman VF1000 cool them passively? Where would I even be able to buy them?

The guy in the nvnews.net thread used these:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search...iteria=A36GF&DOY=28m12

if you live in the US, you have lots of options for something similar:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835425005
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835118220

Sidewinder has a couple of different options.

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/memandvidcar.html

This forum post might interest you also:

http://www.maximumpc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=69297

 

[ManWithNoName]

Originally posted by: 1ManArmY

Originally posted by: ManWithNoName

Originally posted by: 1ManArmY
I'm about to slap a Zalman VF1000 LED on my evga 8800GT SC, the Zalman only comes with 8 RAM heatsinks, is it necessary to find heatsinks for those 12 additional RAM modules or will the Zalman VF1000 cool them passively? Where would I even be able to buy them?

Those extra 12 are not ram modules, I believe some of those are the VRMs and Zalman recommends that use use ramsinks for them. They make what's called a ZM-RHS88 which fits the older 8800 series, I don't know if it's designed to fit the new 8800GT or GTS though. See link ...

http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/pr...?idx=318&pr_name=rhs88

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=497

Just found a picture of the older 8800's PCB, it's a very different design ....

http://www.pcper.com/images/re.../497/21-8800-naked.jpg

So it doesn't lookl like the ZM-RHS88 will fit. So it looks like you should get additional ramsinks....

will the VF1000 cool them passively?, ZM-RHS88 is only for the GTX/GTS (G80) Where would I purchase them? The Hardcorp review of the Zalman VF1000 didn't use any additional ramsinks on there 8800 GT?

It's possible that it could work passively, but I wouldn't count on it. You can get the ramsinks nitromullet linked you to very cheaply, so better safe than sorry. As far as HardOCP goes, that was the first place I looked when you asked the question. They just did a quick measurement to see how well the Zalman cooled, I'm sure they didn't do any long term testing for stability.

 

[1ManArmY]

thanks for the heads up I'll see if I can find VGA RAM Heatsinks this weekend locally or otherwise I will delay the installation of VF1000 until I get them from newegg. So are those VRM being cooled with the adhesive thermal tape still attached to the plastic stock cooler?

 

[SlickSnake]

WARNING!

The BFG 8800 GT OC 512 card has problems with cooling due to a bios problem AND the fan itself can be defective!

BFGR88512GTOCE BIOS - Update Version: 62.92.00.18 Posting Date: 12/18/2007 File Size:272KB Description: Update the the thermal senor fan control to reduce the operating temperature of the GPU. This is recommended only for users with thermal- related concerns and an older BIOS version.

BFG Tech 8800 GT OC link: Go to SUPPORT for Bios Update!

On mine which I attempted to install today, the fan motor itself appears to be defective, and it feels like when turning by hand that something metallic in the fan motor is scraping something. It makes a horrible metal scraping sound when installed, too. It's amazing it did not burn up upon installing it. I just hope BB has another one in stock!

(Yes, I know I posted this in multiple threads, but it needed to be posted, me thinks.)

 

[Syntax Error]

You probably just had a dud fan, I don't hear others with BFG 8800GTs having their cards erupt into flames now.

The 8800GT is a hot card. Monitor the temperatures and raise the fan speeds, or buy an aftermarket cooler. Please stop cross posting this in many threads, I don't think it's a widespread issue, but local and isolated. We all know that the 8800GT fan speed was set at 29% at default.

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: Syntax Error
You probably just had a dud fan, I don't hear others with BFG 8800GTs having their cards erupt into flames now.

The 8800GT is a hot card. Monitor the temperatures and raise the fan speeds, or buy an aftermarket cooler. Please stop cross posting this in many threads, I don't think it's a widespread issue, but local and isolated. We all know that the 8800GT fan speed was set at 29% at default.

DUD fans, DUDE. Other posters reported fans going out! Other posters reported fan speeds stuck after bios upgrades and unable to increase fan speeds! Other posters reported fans MAKING NOISE! Other posters reported fan stickers coming off and stopping the fan! Sounds like a LARGE problem, and not an ISOLATED one. Imagine that!

And buying an after market cooler voids the warranty. Poor idea if the card does not work out of the box!

And it was only posted in recent threads about this card.

 

[shabby]

Use rivatuner to increase the fan speed... and relax.
Thats what the bios update basically does.

 

[1ManArmY]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: 1ManArmY
I'm about to slap a Zalman VF1000 LED on my evga 8800GT SC, the Zalman only comes with 8 RAM heatsinks, is it necessary to find heatsinks for those 12 additional RAM modules or will the Zalman VF1000 cool them passively? Where would I even be able to buy them?

The guy in the nvnews.net thread used these:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search...iteria=A36GF&DOY=28m12

if you live in the US, you have lots of options for something similar:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835425005
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835118220

Sidewinder has a couple of different options.

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/memandvidcar.html

This forum post might interest you also:

http://www.maximumpc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=69297

well so far I haven't been able to find any locally but I did dust off my old 9800 ATI and it only had 1 ramsink that I could use. I guess I will have to order from newegg and delay the installation until I have them.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: Syntax Error
You probably just had a dud fan, I don't hear others with BFG 8800GTs having their cards erupt into flames now.

The 8800GT is a hot card. Monitor the temperatures and raise the fan speeds, or buy an aftermarket cooler. Please stop cross posting this in many threads, I don't think it's a widespread issue, but local and isolated. We all know that the 8800GT fan speed was set at 29% at default.

DUD fans, DUDE. Other posters reported fans going out! Other posters reported fan speeds stuck after bios upgrades and unable to increase fan speeds! Other posters reported fans MAKING NOISE! Other posters reported fan stickers coming off and stopping the fan! Sounds like a LARGE problem, and not an ISOLATED one. Imagine that!

And buying an after market cooler voids the warranty. Poor idea if the card does not work out of the box!

And it was only posted in recent threads about this card.

Dude, exactly what Syntax just said to you, you may want to re-read it. I frequent several forums and there are no widespread issues of stickers falling off BFG cards, fans aren't failing right and left, and the sky isn't falling either. I also just went through the BFG BIOS thread and the majority of the people are either saying it works great or I'll just keep on using Rivatuner. Dude, please ....

 

[John]

Originally posted by: 1ManArmY

Originally posted by: ManWithNoName

Originally posted by: 1ManArmY
I'm about to slap a Zalman VF1000 LED on my evga 8800GT SC, the Zalman only comes with 8 RAM heatsinks, is it necessary to find heatsinks for those 12 additional RAM modules or will the Zalman VF1000 cool them passively? Where would I even be able to buy them?

Those extra 12 are not ram modules, I believe some of those are the VRMs and Zalman recommends that use use ramsinks for them. They make what's called a ZM-RHS88 which fits the older 8800 series, I don't know if it's designed to fit the new 8800GT or GTS though. See link ...

http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/pr...?idx=318&pr_name=rhs88

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=497

Just found a picture of the older 8800's PCB, it's a very different design ....

http://www.pcper.com/images/re.../497/21-8800-naked.jpg

So it doesn't lookl like the ZM-RHS88 will fit. So it looks like you should get additional ramsinks....

will the VF1000 cool them passively?, ZM-RHS88 is only for the GTX/GTS (G80) Where would I purchase them? The Hardcorp review of the Zalman VF1000 didn't use any additional ramsinks on there 8800 GT?

I have the VF1000 on my BFG8800GTOC and purchased 2x Thermaltake copper BGA ramsink kits for the memory and VRM clusters. I wanted everything to match. 😛

Here's a pic of where I placed the heatsinks on the VRM's :camera:

 

[Obsoleet]

Originally posted by: nitromullet
All I'm saying is that NVIDIA could have put a few extra dollars into putting a cooler on the 8800GT that was a tad bit quieter. Obviously, it doesn't need a cooler like the GTX, but even at $220 (which is a lucky find for a 512MB version), it still isn't exactly a cheap piece of hardware for most people. The OP in this thread isn't the first person to mention the noise on this card, and I'm sure he won't be the last.

I've been researching to decide between the 8800GT and 8800GTS512, and have decided on the GTS.

You are correct and found these testaments in other threads while searching AT.

Originally posted by: Snooper
Well, after playing with the 8800GT for a couple of days, I can definitely say that air cooler is GOING this weekend.

I'm really surprised at how much it makes my case fans spin up during gaming due to all the heat being dumped in the case. With my old watercooled X1900, all that heat was being dumped out of the case (in my closet to be exact), so the case temperatures never came up enough to cause Speed Fan to crank up the case fans from the default 55% even during heavy, extended game sessions. I do have the temperature threshold set fairly low. so the case temps don't have to go up much before the fans would spin up.

Hopefully, by this weekend the new card will be fully burned in and I can trust it enough to start unscrewing the stock cooler...

Oh, and all the people that say the fan is not that loud must either be deaf, or they have never spun it up all the way. At 100% speed, the thing sounds like a hair dryer!

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...AR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

Originally posted by: angry hampster

Originally posted by: Belles Toaster
Thanks for the quick reply! I basically saw two variants of the 8800gt design:
a) the sleek one slot look with shroud ( with revised fan) and b) the open dual
slot heatpipe or gpu heatsink with central fan (with heatsinks optional on other
components). Sleek ones run hot; the open design requires good case evacuat
ion of heat. Is the open design a better value since you do not need to get an after-
market cooler ?

Depends how much you feel like spending, IMHO. I paid $220 for my BFG last week and after I gave the fan a custom profile in Rivatuner, it stays reasonably cool and isn't loud at idle. During gaming, it's like a little jet though. I'll be spending another $40 on a Zalman VF900 to stick on it to keep it super cool and quiet. $260ish for extreme gaming performance is not a bad deal at all.

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...key=y&keyword1=8800gts

I usually game online with a headset on (ETQW only), and other games offline (Witcher ect) I use the speakers. Either way, for $100 I get a better cooler with two slot design pushing the hot air out, a faster card (30% in Crysis according to one site@1920), and got a copy of Crysis. So if someone is angry about the noise, which I would be, because I thought my 7800/7900GTs were too loud (once I tried an upper end dualslot card that is). You'll spend $40 on a new cooler to quiet the GT down anyway.

So the $60 premium to have a full two-slot design pushing the hot air out, and having a faster stock clocked card makes a lot of sense to me. Crysis for free (I don't like Farcry nor Crysis but it's still a new game for free), makes it easily a better value than a $250 8800GT with no game (which you'd be lucky to find on a random day).
Just my thought process while trying to make this decision. Those little single slot coolers are for 'everymans cards', and great for people who don't care about the noise ever, but the 8800GT is a little bit too pedestrian for me.

I'm coming from a 8800GTX, which I sold 2 weeks prior to the GT launch (by chance) for $510. The GTX is a quiet card IMO, and in my case it never needed to spin up anyway (Antec 900 with side fan attached).

 

[BlueAcolyte]

Do I need RAMsinks? I used an accelero and needless to say, at least 6 of 8 fell off. So I have two RAMsinks on there.

 

[1ManArmY]

Originally posted by: John

Originally posted by: 1ManArmY

Originally posted by: ManWithNoName

Originally posted by: 1ManArmY
I'm about to slap a Zalman VF1000 LED on my evga 8800GT SC, the Zalman only comes with 8 RAM heatsinks, is it necessary to find heatsinks for those 12 additional RAM modules or will the Zalman VF1000 cool them passively? Where would I even be able to buy them?

Those extra 12 are not ram modules, I believe some of those are the VRMs and Zalman recommends that use use ramsinks for them. They make what's called a ZM-RHS88 which fits the older 8800 series, I don't know if it's designed to fit the new 8800GT or GTS though. See link ...

http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/pr...?idx=318&pr_name=rhs88

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=497

Just found a picture of the older 8800's PCB, it's a very different design ....

http://www.pcper.com/images/re.../497/21-8800-naked.jpg

So it doesn't lookl like the ZM-RHS88 will fit. So it looks like you should get additional ramsinks....

will the VF1000 cool them passively?, ZM-RHS88 is only for the GTX/GTS (G80) Where would I purchase them? The Hardcorp review of the Zalman VF1000 didn't use any additional ramsinks on there 8800 GT?

I have the VF1000 on my BFG8800GTOC and purchased 2x Thermaltake copper BGA ramsink kits for the memory and VRM clusters. I wanted everything to match. 😛

Here's a pic of where I placed the heatsinks on the VRM's :camera:

Well I've decided not to pursue adding the ramsinks for the Voltage regulator Modules (VRMs) because the difference in cooling will be insignificant. I will rely on the VF1000 to cool them passively and if my reduction in temps is insufficient I will look into to adding some BGA ramsinks at a later date.

 

[BlueAcolyte]

bump?

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: 1ManArmY
Well I've decided not to pursue adding the ramsinks for the Voltage regulator Modules (VRMs) because the difference in cooling will be insignificant. I will rely on the VF1000 to cool them passively and if my reduction in temps is insufficient I will look into to adding some BGA ramsinks at a later date.

The problem is that you can't monitor the VRMs' temperature. The temperature reading you get from Rivatuner (or whatever you're using) is only the core temp. I'm interested to know how this works out for you... Keep us posted, and good luck.

 

[Jules]

Originally posted by: Obsoleet

Originally posted by: nitromullet
All I'm saying is that NVIDIA could have put a few extra dollars into putting a cooler on the 8800GT that was a tad bit quieter. Obviously, it doesn't need a cooler like the GTX, but even at $220 (which is a lucky find for a 512MB version), it still isn't exactly a cheap piece of hardware for most people. The OP in this thread isn't the first person to mention the noise on this card, and I'm sure he won't be the last.

I've been researching to decide between the 8800GT and 8800GTS512, and have decided on the GTS.

You are correct and found these testaments in other threads while searching AT.

Originally posted by: Snooper
Well, after playing with the 8800GT for a couple of days, I can definitely say that air cooler is GOING this weekend.

I'm really surprised at how much it makes my case fans spin up during gaming due to all the heat being dumped in the case. With my old watercooled X1900, all that heat was being dumped out of the case (in my closet to be exact), so the case temperatures never came up enough to cause Speed Fan to crank up the case fans from the default 55% even during heavy, extended game sessions. I do have the temperature threshold set fairly low. so the case temps don't have to go up much before the fans would spin up.

Hopefully, by this weekend the new card will be fully burned in and I can trust it enough to start unscrewing the stock cooler...

Oh, and all the people that say the fan is not that loud must either be deaf, or they have never spun it up all the way. At 100% speed, the thing sounds like a hair dryer!

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...AR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

Originally posted by: angry hampster

Originally posted by: Belles Toaster
Thanks for the quick reply! I basically saw two variants of the 8800gt design:
a) the sleek one slot look with shroud ( with revised fan) and b) the open dual
slot heatpipe or gpu heatsink with central fan (with heatsinks optional on other
components). Sleek ones run hot; the open design requires good case evacuat
ion of heat. Is the open design a better value since you do not need to get an after-
market cooler ?

Depends how much you feel like spending, IMHO. I paid $220 for my BFG last week and after I gave the fan a custom profile in Rivatuner, it stays reasonably cool and isn't loud at idle. During gaming, it's like a little jet though. I'll be spending another $40 on a Zalman VF900 to stick on it to keep it super cool and quiet. $260ish for extreme gaming performance is not a bad deal at all.

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...key=y&keyword1=8800gts

I usually game online with a headset on (ETQW only), and other games offline (Witcher ect) I use the speakers. Either way, for $100 I get a better cooler with two slot design pushing the hot air out, a faster card (30% in Crysis according to one site@1920), and got a copy of Crysis. So if someone is angry about the noise, which I would be, because I thought my 7800/7900GTs were too loud (once I tried an upper end dualslot card that is). You'll spend $40 on a new cooler to quiet the GT down anyway.

So the $60 premium to have a full two-slot design pushing the hot air out, and having a faster stock clocked card makes a lot of sense to me. Crysis for free (I don't like Farcry nor Crysis but it's still a new game for free), makes it easily a better value than a $250 8800GT with no game (which you'd be lucky to find on a random day).
Just my thought process while trying to make this decision. Those little single slot coolers are for 'everymans cards', and great for people who don't care about the noise ever, but the 8800GT is a little bit too pedestrian for me.

I'm coming from a 8800GTX, which I sold 2 weeks prior to the GT launch (by chance) for $510. The GTX is a quiet card IMO, and in my case it never needed to spin up anyway (Antec 900 with side fan attached).

I was thinking of picking up a 8800GTS 512MB because of the cooling but its gonna cost me way more then $60 since i got my BFG 8800GT for under 200 bucks. Also the fan noise never bothers me since i can't even hear it while i play games. I ended up just sticking with my card.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: 1ManArmY
Well I've decided not to pursue adding the ramsinks for the Voltage regulator Modules (VRMs) because the difference in cooling will be insignificant. I will rely on the VF1000 to cool them passively and if my reduction in temps is insufficient I will look into to adding some BGA ramsinks at a later date.

The problem is that you can't monitor the VRMs' temperature. The temperature reading you get from Rivatuner (or whatever you're using) is only the core temp. I'm interested to know how this works out for you... Keep us posted, and good luck.

Exactly what Nitro said. Also, ramsinks are so cheap, I'd really reconsider if I were you. If you're not doing it because you want to use your card right away, then I would say fine. Use it as is now, but order the ramsinks anyway and slap them on later. Anyway, good luck with it and let us now how it goes.

 

[Obsoleet]

Originally posted by: MyStupidMouth
I was thinking of picking up a 8800GTS 512MB because of the cooling but its gonna cost me way more then $60 since i got my BFG 8800GT for under 200 bucks. Also the fan noise never bothers me since i can't even hear it while i play games. I ended up just sticking with my card.

Yeah if you got it under $200 that's awesome. I'm considering getting the GT but only if it's the EVGA then I can step-up to the GTS if I'm unhappy with it. I haven't heard these in person but from past experience with crappy single slot coolers and the youtube videos dispalying the 8800GT makes me wonder.

The GT is good stuff cuz it's eventually going to be a $200 card that's equal to a 8800GTX/GTS512 and nothing is really going to outclass it besides the upcoming G92 highend.

The 256mbit memory interface neutered the GTS512 enough that beyond the cooler no one is really interested. If the noise level of a GT annoys me, I'm more inclined to just get the GTS instead of nearing the price (at todays market prices) of a GT+decent HS/fan + work involved.

 

[1ManArmY]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: 1ManArmY
Well I've decided not to pursue adding the ramsinks for the Voltage regulator Modules (VRMs) because the difference in cooling will be insignificant. I will rely on the VF1000 to cool them passively and if my reduction in temps is insufficient I will look into to adding some BGA ramsinks at a later date.

The problem is that you can't monitor the VRMs' temperature. The temperature reading you get from Rivatuner (or whatever you're using) is only the core temp. I'm interested to know how this works out for you... Keep us posted, and good luck.

So I got my Zalman VF1000 installed and the temps have dropped >= 10 degrees. I have the fan plugged into to MOBO chasis as opposed to the original card because it is 3 pin vs 4 pin how do I know if riva tuner is actually controlling the fan? I went into my bios and set my fan to run at 90% all the time and did not load riva tuner. I don't know if my temps are accurate at all when I try to monitor it with Nvidia monitor, suggestions

Right now I have the bios fan control disabled and I'm using RT but I am not sure if I can believe what RT says because the fan is plugged into the MOBO. It's getting late and I'm not making any sense so I will revisit this issue tomorrow.

I enabled my chassis Q-FAN control in the bios and set the fan to spin at 90% because after my last gaming session with it disable my temps got to 72. What if anything is riva tuner controling? Does it have the capability to control the fan speed even though it is plugged into the MOBO?

 

[1ManArmY]

Which ramsinks are better? Thermaltake or
Enzotech

 

[shabby]

I wouldnt touch thermaltake products with a 10 foot clown pole...

 

[1ManArmY]

Originally posted by: shabby
I wouldnt touch thermaltake products with a 10 foot clown pole...

Roger DAT!