8800 and Vista stutter...

[SexyK]

Recently I've noticed occational stutters in 3d apps under vista. Were talking about a 2-3 second catastrophic drop in framedafes every 5 minutes or so. It happens no matter the app, or the detail settings. It's definitely annoying fo be crusing along at 60+ fps then have everything go to hell at the most inopportune time. I think this may be a known nVidia driver issue, if so, is there a known solution? Tried rolling back to an old driver set with no luck. E6600 and 8800GTS 640. Anyone got any tips? Thanks.

 

[Matt2]

This issue has been floting around for a long time. I dont think there are any fixes, but I believe Nvidia has said that they're "working" on it.

Sorry I cant help you, but I've been noticing the same thing with moH:A and my 2900XT.

I'll be getting a solid 50fps at 1920x1200 and then all the sudden the frames go down to single digits for a couple of seconds and then go right back to 50fps.

 

[MarcVenice]

It's probably because right then and there it dumps the memory and refreshes it. Not sure what to do against it. Perhaps lower the textures to medium ?

 

[SexyK]

I'd say lowering texture detail makes sense, but it happens even in a simple game like WoW with all details turned down, I tested it. I dont think mant games are over 640m of textures anyway at anything under 1920x1080. The fact that you have a similar problem with an AMD card makes me think this is a Vista issue and not an nVidia issue.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: SexyK
I'd say lowering texture detail makes sense, but it happens even in a simple game like WoW with all details turned down, I tested it. I dont think mant games are over 640m of textures anyway at anything under 1920x1080. The fact that you have a similar problem with an AMD card makes me think this is a Vista issue and not an nVidia issue.

my HD2900XT has not ever done that.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Wasn't this the texture memory issue where users sometimes experience sudden drops in FPS? or was that the alt tabbing issue.

The texture issue was fixed in the driver 163.67.

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: SexyK
I'd say lowering texture detail makes sense, but it happens even in a simple game like WoW with all details turned down, I tested it. I dont think mant games are over 640m of textures anyway at anything under 1920x1080. The fact that you have a similar problem with an AMD card makes me think this is a Vista issue and not an nVidia issue.

my HD2900XT has not ever done that.

That could be because you play at a low resolution and Vista isnt using any virtual memory.

 

[SexyK]

Just installed the 163.67's last night and the issue is still there. Maybe I should go just for a clean install and see if that resolves the issue. Not sure what else to try at this point. I'm on 32-bit Vista Home Premium by the way...

EDIT: 1000th post, only took 6 years lol.

 

[n7]

Hmm, i haven't encountered this.

I used to have an issue in UT2k4 where the game paused (locked up) for a couple seconds & then chugged back to normal, but that was apparently fixed in the newer drivers...

 

[Mr Fox]

Originally posted by: SexyK
Recently I've noticed occational stutters in 3d apps under vista. Were talking about a 2-3 second catastrophic drop in framedafes every 5 minutes or so. It happens no matter the app, or the detail settings. It's definitely annoying fo be crusing along at 60+ fps then have everything go to hell at the most inopportune time. I think this may be a known nVidia driver issue, if so, is there a known solution? Tried rolling back to an old driver set with no luck. E6600 and 8800GTS 640. Anyone got any tips? Thanks.

1,)ASUS under Auto PEG Configuration will overclock the PEG Buss sometimes causing an issue like this.

2,)The other thing is Page File Size and Utilization profiles.

3,)Also your Hard Drives are hard pressed. You are running two 8800's you need to be able to feed them... Remember the hard drives are the slowest hardware on your computer...

 

[Heinrich]

163.67 is a 'holy grail' for me in LoTRO - I have 2 8800 GTS 640MB SLI and I could not run very high textures until these drivers because of lagging stuttering etc, smooth as butter!!

 

[Keysplayr]

You guys don't happen to be using USB flash drives and "Ready Boost", are you?

 

[SexyK]

No Ready Boost but I do have an ASUS board so I will check the PEG configuration in the BIOS and report back. Thanks for all the tips guys.

 

[heymrdj]

I use 8600GS M, and i run all high at 1440 res on BF2 and UT2k4, never had this issue. And thats a 5400rpm HD. Vista Ultimate

 

[Ylurien]

I say this without trying to incite anything:

Have you thought about going back to XP for the meantime?

 

[chizow]

Just curious what games you're experiencing this in? I know this isn't the fix you're looking for, but I'd highly recommend adding 2GB of RAM and moving to Vista 64, especially at the resolution you're running (1920+) with 2x 8800 GTS. 2GB of RAM in Vista really doesn't cut it due to the increased virtual memory usage detailed in AT's 2GB Wall article. I'd guess that SLI only compounds the problem, although there is a hot fix available (official release won't be until SP1 in January '08) that supposedly fixes the problem.

Problem with adding 2GB of RAM is not only the increased cost of the RAM and 64-bit Vista disc, but you may run into problems running 4 x 1GB on your P5N-E SLI. I couldn't get 4GB to run reliably on that board (killed 3 kits of RAM actually), although I had a very early revision. Still, 4GB at high resolutions on Vista 64 has been a vast improvement over 2GB in XP or Vista, with 3GB and 2GB configurations exhibiting some slow downs, but not nearly the extent you're seeing.

 

[SexyK]

Okay sorry for the confusion - not sure how I got 2x8800's in my system rig profile and I'm getting an error now trying to update it. Anyway, I have a single 8800GTS 640MB. I'm running at 1680x1050 in all apps. Should have laid all this out explicitly before. The hiccup didn't exist for the first several months I was on Vista but I've been noticing it more lately and that's why I posted. It happens in everything from WoW to Bioshock to the ET:QW demo. To be sure all drivers were fresh, I just uninstalled all the nVidia software on the machine including nTune and the 163.37 drivers. Went to safe mode and reinstalled nVidia software and the problem seems to be much, much more infrequent now. I've only had about 90 minutes to test it out, but it seems like the bulk of the problem was resolved with a fresh driver install. I will report back more later once I've had a chance to get more time under my belt.

As a side note, I also run a second monitor at 1280x1024 and considered the possibility that powering the secondary screen was causing the issue. Before the driver reinstall I disabled the second monitor before firing up a 3d app and the issue persisted, so it seems that the secondary monitor was not related to the issue.

Thanks for all the great suggestions everyone. Chizow - do you know if the P5N-E SLI has similar problems with a 2x2GB configuration, or was your experience limited to 4x1GB? I'm considering the move to Vista x64 but will hold off if it means a new MB also - I'd rather invest in 2GB sticks than 2 more 1GB sticks at this point.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Mr Fox

Originally posted by: SexyK
Recently I've noticed occational stutters in 3d apps under vista. Were talking about a 2-3 second catastrophic drop in framedafes every 5 minutes or so. It happens no matter the app, or the detail settings. It's definitely annoying fo be crusing along at 60+ fps then have everything go to hell at the most inopportune time. I think this may be a known nVidia driver issue, if so, is there a known solution? Tried rolling back to an old driver set with no luck. E6600 and 8800GTS 640. Anyone got any tips? Thanks.

1,)ASUS under Auto PEG Configuration will overclock the PEG Buss sometimes causing an issue like this.

2,)The other thing is Page File Size and Utilization profiles.

3,)Also your Hard Drives are hard pressed. You are running two 8800's you need to be able to feed them... Remember the hard drives are the slowest hardware on your computer...

The HD should not be the limiting factor at all in 3d operation.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: SexyK
Thanks for all the great suggestions everyone. Chizow - do you know if the P5N-E SLI has similar problems with a 2x2GB configuration, or was your experience limited to 4x1GB? I'm considering the move to Vista x64 but will hold off if it means a new MB also - I'd rather invest in 2GB sticks than 2 more 1GB sticks at this point.

Not sure about the 2x2GB config, although I know larger modules can have their own inherent problems (slower timings, hit or miss with some boards/BIOS etc). My problems were limited to 4 x 1GB, or even 2 x 1GB and the Yellow Dimm slots (first two). Many other users reported various problems with the Yellow slots in the massive P5N-E thread over in the mobo forum and with early BIOS revisions it was recommended to simply not use them if at all possible. My guess is that the first two dimm slots intermittenly spike voltage to the RAM modules, eventually killing them over time. The scariest part is it doesn't seem like its a problem limited to just the Asus P5N-E, but many of the early 650i/680i boards.

If you're willing to spend the slight premium on 2x2GB I think its worth it. Vista with 2GB is just extremely sluggish with my set-up. 3GB is a bit better, but still lots of thrashing and slow responsiveness with a game open while trying to multi-task. 4GB is just a dream as it gives Vista all the leg-room it needs to run multiple apps, cache data, and reserve excessive amounts of virtual memory for its video driver (for now annyways).

Also if it helps any, here's a link to a HOCP review with LOTRO that came to mind. Was linked on the LOTRO forums and shows frames for both the 8800 GTS and 2900 XT dropping into the single digits with Vista and 2GB. I've never seen frames drop that low with 4GB under the same conditions, although they can consistently get that low in big PvP and Raid fire fights. LOTRO is a very texture/memory intensive game with settings cranked up and increasing the amount of system RAM (along with some client tweaks) has vastly improved performance for many users including myself.

 

[cputeq]

You might want to check to see if you've added any newer hardware or hardware drivers (other than video).

For instance -- I know there are some printer driver-apps (the little bastards that sit in the system tray) that will constantly poll the status of the printer. Depending on how the system's set up, etc. etc. it'll cause random micro-pauses in the computer operation and drive you absolutely batty until you figure it out.


Just a suggestion -- Perhaps it's something other than video drivers. Hardware or software additions to the system, etc.


Also, Extremetech links 4 great Vista hotfixes not yet part of Windows Update (I think)
http://www.extremetech.com/art.../0,1697,2177716,00.asp

one of these is the memory leak problem in Vista. See if that helps.


--------------

As for moving up to 4GB, it's nice, but it may not be a cure-all.

Even if you move to 4GB and Vista-64, you're still running into a 2GB user-mode space limitation from the app itself because it's not a 64-bit compiled app. Only if the app is "LargeAddressAware" is 64-bit going to help, but in that case a /3GB switch may help a normal Vista-32 installation.

http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewth...2005/06/01/423817.aspx


http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms791558.aspx

---------------

I'm currently running my 8800GTS, Vista-32, and have yet to experience any sort of performance you're describing. I'm using current BETA drivers from Nvidia. So, I'm thinking it has to do with either a faulty/corrupt Vista installation or some other interfering software/hardware that's been added.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: SexyK
I'd say lowering texture detail makes sense, but it happens even in a simple game like WoW with all details turned down, I tested it. I dont think mant games are over 640m of textures anyway at anything under 1920x1080. The fact that you have a similar problem with an AMD card makes me think this is a Vista issue and not an nVidia issue.

my HD2900XT has not ever done that.

That could be because you play at a low resolution and Vista isnt using any virtual memory.

The problem is though, that almost every single new game that has been released lately tanks at really high resolution. The cards required to play these games are expensive anyway but I would expect playable fps at high resolutions. It's quickly becoming normal for someone to have a monitor that supports 1920x1200 and maybe even more. I wonder if sometimes a hardware manufacturer (NV or ATI) didn't think about people playing beyond 1280x1024 or whatnot. There was a time I remember when playing at 1600x1200 was impossible because no card could do it. Now we need cards that can handle all the new games at 1920x1080. Especially since you bought a DX10 card and expect to play DX10 games right? There aren't many games that take advantage of DX10 and I just hope that the cards today don't take a complete nose dive in the dirt running an API they were ment to run. I'm crossing my fingers for that. Obviously I play at 1280x1024 so almost every game will be playable for me on high, but again they need to get performance up at higher resolutions.

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: SexyK
I'd say lowering texture detail makes sense, but it happens even in a simple game like WoW with all details turned down, I tested it. I dont think mant games are over 640m of textures anyway at anything under 1920x1080. The fact that you have a similar problem with an AMD card makes me think this is a Vista issue and not an nVidia issue.

my HD2900XT has not ever done that.

That could be because you play at a low resolution and Vista isnt using any virtual memory.

The problem is though, that almost every single new game that has been released lately tanks at really high resolution. The cards required to play these games are expensive anyway but I would expect playable fps at high resolutions. It's quickly becoming normal for someone to have a monitor that supports 1920x1200 and maybe even more. I wonder if sometimes a hardware manufacturer (NV or ATI) didn't think about people playing beyond 1280x1024 or whatnot. There was a time I remember when playing at 1600x1200 was impossible because no card could do it. Now we need cards that can handle all the new games at 1920x1080. Especially since you bought a DX10 card and expect to play DX10 games right? There aren't many games that take advantage of DX10 and I just hope that the cards today don't take a complete nose dive in the dirt running an API they were ment to run. I'm crossing my fingers for that. Obviously I play at 1280x1024 so almost every game will be playable for me on high, but again they need to get performance up at higher resolutions.

I agree with your above statement and sadly, nvidia and ATi's official response is SLI/CF.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: SexyK
I'd say lowering texture detail makes sense, but it happens even in a simple game like WoW with all details turned down, I tested it. I dont think mant games are over 640m of textures anyway at anything under 1920x1080. The fact that you have a similar problem with an AMD card makes me think this is a Vista issue and not an nVidia issue.

my HD2900XT has not ever done that.

That could be because you play at a low resolution and Vista isnt using any virtual memory.

The problem is though, that almost every single new game that has been released lately tanks at really high resolution. The cards required to play these games are expensive anyway but I would expect playable fps at high resolutions. It's quickly becoming normal for someone to have a monitor that supports 1920x1200 and maybe even more. I wonder if sometimes a hardware manufacturer (NV or ATI) didn't think about people playing beyond 1280x1024 or whatnot. There was a time I remember when playing at 1600x1200 was impossible because no card could do it. Now we need cards that can handle all the new games at 1920x1080. Especially since you bought a DX10 card and expect to play DX10 games right? There aren't many games that take advantage of DX10 and I just hope that the cards today don't take a complete nose dive in the dirt running an API they were ment to run. I'm crossing my fingers for that. Obviously I play at 1280x1024 so almost every game will be playable for me on high, but again they need to get performance up at higher resolutions.

I agree with your above statement and sadly, nvidia and ATi's official response is SLI/CF.

It's really making me think about a time when I have to upgrade my monitor or the current one I have fails. I don't want to get a big monitor, and then not be able to play any games because they're all slow. I'm not a fan of dual GPU solutions but it looks like the only way to get it done. I hope soon that this will all be fixed or found to be untrue. Maybe Crysis will run well on the high end systems with high resolution. Maybe it will bomb in that area, but I'm sure hoping it runs well.

 

[nullpointerus]

I have been gaming at 1280x800 for a month or two as an experiment (Oblivion, NFS, Fable).

The options were basically maxed, or whatever could be used at nearly constant 60fps in most areas of the games. High IQ settings and levels of AA that can be used at this resolution cut down on the aliasing, blurring, and moire effect (somewhat) although there will always be some aliasing when upscaling on a LCD.

I'm actually enjoying the responsiveness of fluid rendering more than the crispness of native resolution.

Maybe this monitor's upscaling just works better than my old monitor's upscaling?

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: nullpointerus
I have been gaming at 1280x800 for a month or two as an experiment (Oblivion, NFS, Fable).

The options were basically maxed, or whatever could be used at nearly constant 60fps in most areas of the games. High IQ settings and levels of AA that can be used at this resolution cut down on the aliasing, blurring, and moire effect (somewhat) although there will always be some aliasing when upscaling on a LCD.

I'm actually enjoying the responsiveness of fluid rendering more than the crispness of native resolution.

Maybe this monitor's upscaling just works better than my old monitor's upscaling?

It's an option, but not many people find it appealing.