All I can say is that he would probably try to take everything he could from you if it were the other way around. But then again I live in California.
How do you know that? Are you the OP? Lots of haters in this thread.
Listen, Lucky and his girlfriend have a significant amount of pain that may or may not go away. He's out the $$ for a rental car through no fault of his own. If the old man can't handle his sh!t he doesn't need to be out on the road. What ever happened to good ol' personal accountability? Is Lucky to assume that if/when he ever crashes into someone, they'll just "get to know him", and "take it easy on him"?
I'm not going to sit here and say that the tort law system in this country hasn't been abused at times, because it has. But many people have been utterly convinced that it is an inherently evil and useless system when it most certainly is not. Only Lucky knows what it is going to take to make him feel better about this bad situation that WAS NO FAULT OF HIS OWN. He came here looking for advice, not a fvckin flamewar.
Lucky, I'm not an expert but if I were you I'd ask around and find an honest personal injury lawyer. Not the ambulance chasers on TV, but a friend of a friend or something - someone you can trust. Just sit down and have a chat about the situation - someone like that should be able to tell you if you can go it alone on this deal or not. Good luck to you.
No problem whatsoever here; I think I was pretty insulting in that other post anyway, so right back at you with an apology. Anyway, some good points were brought up, including the fact that in the UK your society provides for you much better than ours does here in the states. Here we're expected to do everything ourselves, and if we can't pay for everything (including auto and health insurance) we can quite easily wind up on the street.
I feel like the old guy shouldn't have been on the road, but he might not have a choice. That's bad from a societal standpoint.
I think that taking dishonest advantage of the situation to make money would be bad (although I don't think it's happening here necessarily).
Back pain is hard to prove, and it's hard to disprove. It can definitely ruin your life, though. Lucky may have a legitimate complaint. Sometimes people are like cockroaches, but sometimes people die from being shot in the toe.
The old man is liable due to his faulty driving. The fact that he's old and probably lovable doesn't change that fact, sadly. (And he may not be so lovable; although it's a natural human reaction to bluster when one's in trouble, if he really did claim that he skidded out to the street on a sheet of ice, it seems to me that he's lying.)
A lot of other silliness has come up in this thread, including definitions of the word "ice" and whatnot, but it's still an interesting one. I hope that Lucky and sig other get what they rightfully deserve (whatever that is), and that the old man is okay afterwards.
Maybe he shouldn't have been driving in the first place. Hmm? What if he came out at 25mph and hit a pedestrian on the sidewalk?
EDIT: Looked at the pic and didn't see a sidewalk. I retract my statement.
1sikbITCH
Diamond Member
- Jan 3, 2001
- 4,194
- 574
- 126
I am a paralegal for a Personal Injury attorney. Luckily my firm is somewhat respectable. You have to actually be hurt or you won't even get both feet in our door.
Your expectations are unrealistic. You cannot claim losses which you cannot prove. If you want Pain and Suffering, you'll need a doctor to put it in writing. And even then chances are the insurance company will call "BS", and tell you to file suit. Then you've got to pay the doctor or other "expert witnesses" to come to court and testify. All this for a fender bender.
If you want $100 a day for whatever other reason, you have to show where you lost $100 a day because of this accident.
The laws in each state are different, but some general points will hold true:
1. If you don't get a lawyer, at least get some vaseline. The insurance company is just PRAYING you don't get a lawyer.
2. You are entitled to be made "whole", and that's it. You get your car fixed, your lost wages reimbursed, your medical expenses paid, and any other cash you had to outlay due to this accident. You do not get compensated for simply being inconvenienced, or for any losses which you cannot prove.
3. If your car is drivable, than no, you get no rental car. If your car is NOT drivable, they will be on the hook for the rental car. I don't see how they can get around that. But again, with no lawyer, how will you file suit against them when they refuse to pay?
4. You have a responsibility to mitigate damages. You cannot drive a rental car for 2 weeks without getting your car fixed and expect them to pay for it. Your car should be fixed right away, so costs don't keep building up.
Get a lawyer, not to rake this poor guy over the coals, but to ensure you get your medical bills paid and your car fixed. The lawyer will bargain with the insurance company, get a settlement that will pay all your bills and lost wages, and then maybe if you're lucky a little something extra.
Your expectations are unrealistic. You cannot claim losses which you cannot prove. If you want Pain and Suffering, you'll need a doctor to put it in writing. And even then chances are the insurance company will call "BS", and tell you to file suit. Then you've got to pay the doctor or other "expert witnesses" to come to court and testify. All this for a fender bender.
If you want $100 a day for whatever other reason, you have to show where you lost $100 a day because of this accident.
The laws in each state are different, but some general points will hold true:
1. If you don't get a lawyer, at least get some vaseline. The insurance company is just PRAYING you don't get a lawyer.
2. You are entitled to be made "whole", and that's it. You get your car fixed, your lost wages reimbursed, your medical expenses paid, and any other cash you had to outlay due to this accident. You do not get compensated for simply being inconvenienced, or for any losses which you cannot prove.
3. If your car is drivable, than no, you get no rental car. If your car is NOT drivable, they will be on the hook for the rental car. I don't see how they can get around that. But again, with no lawyer, how will you file suit against them when they refuse to pay?
4. You have a responsibility to mitigate damages. You cannot drive a rental car for 2 weeks without getting your car fixed and expect them to pay for it. Your car should be fixed right away, so costs don't keep building up.
Get a lawyer, not to rake this poor guy over the coals, but to ensure you get your medical bills paid and your car fixed. The lawyer will bargain with the insurance company, get a settlement that will pay all your bills and lost wages, and then maybe if you're lucky a little something extra.
SunSamurai
Diamond Member
- Jan 16, 2005
- 3,914
- 0
- 0
pain Audio pronunciation of "pain" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pn)
n.
1. An unpleasant sensation occurring in varying degrees of severity as a consequence of injury, disease, or emotional disorder.
2. Suffering or distress.
3. pains The pangs of childbirth.
4. pains Great care or effort: take pains with one's work.
5. Informal. A source of annoyance; a nuisance.
suf·fer Audio pronunciation of "suffering" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sfr)
v. suf·fered, suf·fer·ing, suf·fers
v. intr.
1. To feel pain or distress; sustain loss, injury, harm, or punishment.
2. To tolerate or endure evil, injury, pain, or death. See Synonyms at bear1.
3. To appear at a disadvantage: ?He suffers by comparison with his greater contemporary? (Albert C. Baugh).
You are obviously entitled to have his insurance company supply youre medical and car repair bills in full.
n.
1. An unpleasant sensation occurring in varying degrees of severity as a consequence of injury, disease, or emotional disorder.
2. Suffering or distress.
3. pains The pangs of childbirth.
4. pains Great care or effort: take pains with one's work.
5. Informal. A source of annoyance; a nuisance.
suf·fer Audio pronunciation of "suffering" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sfr)
v. suf·fered, suf·fer·ing, suf·fers
v. intr.
1. To feel pain or distress; sustain loss, injury, harm, or punishment.
2. To tolerate or endure evil, injury, pain, or death. See Synonyms at bear1.
3. To appear at a disadvantage: ?He suffers by comparison with his greater contemporary? (Albert C. Baugh).
You are obviously entitled to have his insurance company supply youre medical and car repair bills in full.
seriously, I'm not reading through 7 pages of this flame war, but I do want o add my $.02
Old people should have to take both written exams, and road tests every year between the age of 70-75 and every six months from there on out. I had a good friend who was killed by a geriatric driver who should have never been behind the wheel!
Old people should have to take both written exams, and road tests every year between the age of 70-75 and every six months from there on out. I had a good friend who was killed by a geriatric driver who should have never been behind the wheel!
What about people who are between the ages of 16-69?
Every six months though? Damn, I thought the DMV was clogged before...
My gf got in an accident a short while back. She couldn't use the co-pay for her prescriptions, but got a check fairly quickly from the other person's insurance company. So make sure you talk to the insurance company every step of the way.
If you're getting your car fixed, and money back for lost wages you shouldn't have anything to worry about man. Chin up.
GL!
If you're getting your car fixed, and money back for lost wages you shouldn't have anything to worry about man. Chin up.
GL!
Why? That was the funniest part of this thread.
I was just imagining a British accent saying
"any need in that you fat bastard american? it was a comparison between so called suffering not a give me money plea you slobering turkey necked tard"
had me chuckling out loud. Not sure why, exactly. Keep up the good work, otis.
*edit* If you don't mind, I think I'll start calling people fat bastard americans and slobbering turkey-necked tards. :thumbsup:
I'm sorry, I actually enjoy my job. And besides working there are plenty of things around the house and outside of it that I cannot do right now either. We'd planned on making a trip to my GF's home city to visit her aunt who is on her death bed. But we can't because the pain and muscle relaxents we are on prevent us from driving.
She feels the same way that I do.
I'm assuming the money will come from his insurance company. I'm not going to demand the old man pay me 50K and put him in the poorhouse.
Thanks tokomak. I think I've found someone exactly like that who can help me.
1sikbITCH, thank you for your input. I will take your advice on the rental car to both the insurance company and to a lawyer if they refuse to pay out on it.
And thanks to everyone else who supplied constructive information.
waggy
No Lifer
- Dec 14, 2000
- 68,143
- 10
- 81
heh ATOT band wagon in full swing!
All those saying they wouldnt sue him because he is a old man are nuts. Why wouldnt you sue? You should be compisated for what he did. Its not like lucky is going ot walk away with enough to buy a new house/car and retire heh.
From the pictures it really looks like the Old man just forgot what peddle to push (oddly it does happen a lot). He should pay for all damage to Lucky's car and medical expenses. A little for pain and suffing is not being greedy either. Why should he have to suffer though it? he didnt do anything wrong.
All those saying they wouldnt sue him because he is a old man are nuts. Why wouldnt you sue? You should be compisated for what he did. Its not like lucky is going ot walk away with enough to buy a new house/car and retire heh.
From the pictures it really looks like the Old man just forgot what peddle to push (oddly it does happen a lot). He should pay for all damage to Lucky's car and medical expenses. A little for pain and suffing is not being greedy either. Why should he have to suffer though it? he didnt do anything wrong.
What a thread. We were just looking for advice, not a cross ocean argument. We never said a word about suing the old man. We both have the same insurance company. Chances are when the car is estimated on Monday and they get back to the insurance agent we can figure most things out.
Are we permantly injured, doubtful. It's uncomfortable and an inconvience. We are not on to take the old man out for the rest of his social security.
I have a feeling that when the hospital bills, rental car amount and work compensation are mentioned he will have his (well both of our) insurance company take care of the situation to avoid a a lawsuit. Which we aren't interested in pursing nor I doubt will he want to go through.
Should he pay lets says, $500 to cover the entire situation regarding pain and suffering? I don't think thats outrageous. We have things to do, jobs, a life. My aunt and God-Mother is dying of liver cancer and is currently with Hospice. I am just coming into the third month of a cancer remission. I hate the hospital .. doctors, needles and staying in bed at all. It sucks.
Please be honest, if it was you .. BS if you get half of his social security check .. but I would think you are deserved something.
Thats not greed.
Are we permantly injured, doubtful. It's uncomfortable and an inconvience. We are not on to take the old man out for the rest of his social security.
I have a feeling that when the hospital bills, rental car amount and work compensation are mentioned he will have his (well both of our) insurance company take care of the situation to avoid a a lawsuit. Which we aren't interested in pursing nor I doubt will he want to go through.
Should he pay lets says, $500 to cover the entire situation regarding pain and suffering? I don't think thats outrageous. We have things to do, jobs, a life. My aunt and God-Mother is dying of liver cancer and is currently with Hospice. I am just coming into the third month of a cancer remission. I hate the hospital .. doctors, needles and staying in bed at all. It sucks.
Please be honest, if it was you .. BS if you get half of his social security check .. but I would think you are deserved something.
Thats not greed.
Lucky,
Here's why I don't think you will get any money for a rental car.
I am not a lawyer, but I do base this on experience with my own insurance company.
As I understand it, you do not have rental coverage on your own policy.
For whatever reason you decided not to get it (and I'm sure you had good reason),
it was the same as saying to your insurance "I can make my own transportation
arrangements in the event that I lose the use of my car for an extended period
due to an accident".
So your insurance company will not cover it, since its not included in the
current policy.
If you go after the old man, the first question that his insurance agent will
ask is "why isn't your insurance providing rental coverage?". From that
point, they will take the same position as your insurance agency - as you elected
not to have additional coverage for that circumstance expressed in your own policy
when it was made available to you. They will seek to cover only what is required
in the old mans policy, ie what compensation is required by law.
(Reading further into this thread, since its the same agency I would think at some
point they are also going to evaluate your policy in consideration of what
compensation to return based off of his policy.)
If you could prove malicious intent (that he deliberately intended to deprive you
the use of your vehicle) you might be in a better position in that regard, since
you could then claim it was more than just an accident. But I don't think that
would fly unless it was stated as such in the police report.
on a side note:
Since you use your car for work, do they compensate you for use (wear&tear and mileage)
of the vehicle? Is that compensation enough to cover the difference in getting
rental coverage added to your policy? If it is, you might have to consider
adding such coverage in the future.
Edit: Additional thoughts.
The insurance company might take a lighter view on the rental since it is used as part of your work.
So it might be considered a normal part of the compensation for lost work time (not counting the
days you are bed-ridden and not expected to be able to work anyway). But you would probably
need some statement from work making that clear.
From each reply you give, we get more information about the whole situation.
If you haven't even gotten an estimate on the car yet, then you really don't have enough information
to start with the insurance agency to file claims for compensation. You need the full accident report,
the damage estimate, and up to date report on current medical and work expense, and ongoing
expenses that might relate, for them to start evaluating this in full.
Here's why I don't think you will get any money for a rental car.
I am not a lawyer, but I do base this on experience with my own insurance company.
As I understand it, you do not have rental coverage on your own policy.
For whatever reason you decided not to get it (and I'm sure you had good reason),
it was the same as saying to your insurance "I can make my own transportation
arrangements in the event that I lose the use of my car for an extended period
due to an accident".
So your insurance company will not cover it, since its not included in the
current policy.
If you go after the old man, the first question that his insurance agent will
ask is "why isn't your insurance providing rental coverage?". From that
point, they will take the same position as your insurance agency - as you elected
not to have additional coverage for that circumstance expressed in your own policy
when it was made available to you. They will seek to cover only what is required
in the old mans policy, ie what compensation is required by law.
(Reading further into this thread, since its the same agency I would think at some
point they are also going to evaluate your policy in consideration of what
compensation to return based off of his policy.)
If you could prove malicious intent (that he deliberately intended to deprive you
the use of your vehicle) you might be in a better position in that regard, since
you could then claim it was more than just an accident. But I don't think that
would fly unless it was stated as such in the police report.
on a side note:
Since you use your car for work, do they compensate you for use (wear&tear and mileage)
of the vehicle? Is that compensation enough to cover the difference in getting
rental coverage added to your policy? If it is, you might have to consider
adding such coverage in the future.
Edit: Additional thoughts.
The insurance company might take a lighter view on the rental since it is used as part of your work.
So it might be considered a normal part of the compensation for lost work time (not counting the
days you are bed-ridden and not expected to be able to work anyway). But you would probably
need some statement from work making that clear.
From each reply you give, we get more information about the whole situation.
If you haven't even gotten an estimate on the car yet, then you really don't have enough information
to start with the insurance agency to file claims for compensation. You need the full accident report,
the damage estimate, and up to date report on current medical and work expense, and ongoing
expenses that might relate, for them to start evaluating this in full.
I'm going to stay out of the insurance side of things, because I don't know anything about that (am a youngster of 18 years, been driving for two, and haven't got in an accident yet *taps hardened plant substance*).
However, my ramblings on old people driving: my grandmother (mid-80's)lives alone, and a few years ago when she came close to hitting another car while backing up in the grocery store parking lot, she voluntarily (without prompting from the family) got rid of the car and soon after moved to a "living community" where she has an apartment but can get anywhere she needs to go either within the building (food) or by handicap-accessible bus service (pharmacy, store, etc.). Sadly, some of the elderly loose their mind as they loose their driving ability, and I feel for those who have had to have "the talk" with their parents about the car issue.
My grandmother lives on the other end of the state. Sadly, in our town, the BMV is so screwed up that there are half-blind individuals with Alzheimer's on the road (my mom's friend's parents - watch out for the blue minivan!). You can make rules and crap all you want, but that's not going to stop every case of corruption or simple idiocy on the part of government workers. :Q
Edited for clarity.
However, my ramblings on old people driving: my grandmother (mid-80's)lives alone, and a few years ago when she came close to hitting another car while backing up in the grocery store parking lot, she voluntarily (without prompting from the family) got rid of the car and soon after moved to a "living community" where she has an apartment but can get anywhere she needs to go either within the building (food) or by handicap-accessible bus service (pharmacy, store, etc.). Sadly, some of the elderly loose their mind as they loose their driving ability, and I feel for those who have had to have "the talk" with their parents about the car issue.
My grandmother lives on the other end of the state. Sadly, in our town, the BMV is so screwed up that there are half-blind individuals with Alzheimer's on the road (my mom's friend's parents - watch out for the blue minivan!). You can make rules and crap all you want, but that's not going to stop every case of corruption or simple idiocy on the part of government workers. :Q
Edited for clarity.
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