85' T/A

[herm0016]

I am looking at an 85 pontiac Trans am. the car has 4 wheel disk breaks, which means its has the WS6 suspension package, and the owner tells me its a 350. the car does have tune port injection which was offered on the 85 on the 305 ci engine, the 350 was not offered stock.

the owner actually thought it was a 305 but when he had the transmission rebuilt the guy told him it was a 350.

the question: how do i know its a 350 tpi and not a 305 tpi? what is a easy way to tell the two engines apart

also.. if you know these cars a little, what do you think its worth? its got some dents and such, the front seats are pretty ripped up, but every thing works, newly rebuilt transmission, new water pump, alternator, power steering, smog pump. headlights have new motors. no significant rust at all.

thanks.

purchased! woo. i like it!

pics:
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[JulesMaximus]

No, it has 4 wheel disk BRAKES. Break is what happens to your car when you crash into something else...or when you're dancing with your homeys. Braking is what you do when you wish to slow down. Brakes are the devices that clamp down and slow your car down.

What's he asking for it?

 

[herm0016]

yes.. brakes. whoops. did not read after i typed. This car is only worth 50 dollars to you, but to people with taste it is worth somewhat more. just how much more i am debating on.

thanks for the worthless reply.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: herm0016
yes.. brakes. whoops. did not read after i typed. This car is only worth 50 dollars to you, but to people with taste it is worth somewhat more. just how much more i am debating on.

thanks for the worthless reply.

What's the guy asking for it?

I guess if it runs you might offer him a few hundred but that's about it IMO. Sounds like it needs quite a bit of work to make it look nice. Maybe once the dents are fixed and the interior repaired you might get $2000-3000 for it...maybe.

A quick search of e-bay found a car in similar condition that sold for $810. I also saw a bunch of auctions for similar cars that did not sell because the reserve wasn't met. It doesn't appear that there's much demand for these cars so prices are somewhat lower than people seem to think they're worth.

A friend of mine had an '89 IROC Z Convertible and that car had such a weak chassis it was pathetic. You drive over a speed bump at an angle and the door glass would separate from the top by about an inch.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that we were both editing your post at the same time, which is why my previous mod edit disappeared. Suffice it to say that if you continue trolling, you will earn a vacation. The OP asked a legitimate question and you have done nothing but be condescending about his choice of vehicles.

Zenmervolt - AnandTech Garage Moderator

Fair enough. I'll edit my post.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Well, the 350 was not offered from the factory in 1985, so if it has a 350, someone has replaced the engine at some point.

Unfortunately, there is no easy superficial visual distinction between the 350 and the 305. Most methods for finding out involve decoding the VIN, and since there was no T/A in 1985 that had a 350 that doesn't really work for you.

The easiest ways seem to be:

1) Remove one of the valve covers and check the casting number on the heads. You can match them against this list of casting numbers.

2) Easier (depending on gunk buildup) is to check the casting number for the block itself. This is on the driver's side rear of the block on the top flange that mates to the transmission bellhousing. Check the block casting numbers against this list.

ZV

 

[Vette73]

^


Yea I would not trust the casting number of the heads. I would still get it and the block number to see what type of setup was put in it.

F-Bodies are always rigged up including but not limited to the motor when they get to a certain ager and price point.


To the OP it can be a fun car but it will not be blazing fast unless you dump a lot of money into it and it will not be the most reliabile, esp since 85 was early for Tune port.

My first car was a 85 FireBird

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
No, it has 4 wheel disk BRAKES. Break is what happens to your car when you crash into something else...or when you're dancing with your homeys. Braking is what you do when you wish to slow down. Brakes are the devices that clamp down and slow your car down.

That car is probably worth about $50.

The ironing is delicious. :laugh:

Don't be such a toolbag, toolbag.

OK, the "he started it" excuse doesn't fly. Even if you think it's deserved retaliation it's still a personal attack. I warned Jules, now I'm warning you.

Zenmervolt - AnandTech Garage Moderator

 

[herm0016]

thanks ZV.

i have also heard rumors that the harmonic balancer is much smaller on the 305, but have not really been able to confirm this.

edit... wow?? did not know this would be so controversial? anywho...

thanks marlin. i thought the heads were interchangeable also.

he is asking 2500, i think its worth closer to 1500. i have to consider that i will have to drive it from fort worth tx to rock springs wy to get it home also.

 

[Black88GTA]

The first thing you want to do is have subframe connectors installed after you get it. Don't bother with bolt-ins, they will cause more problems in the long run than they will solve. Get the weld in type. Spohn Performance makes a good set.

The car is likely not worth much as it sits. Maybe $1500, although it's impossible to tell without pics and details of the damage (how bad are we talking about)?? The good news is, parts are DIRT cheap. You could source a pair of front seats in decent shape cheap, and score some good fenders from a junkyard. No sense patching together and bondoing dented fenders for that car, when so many are available used. The aftermarket fenders don't seem to fit right - I've never used them, but have heard bad things. The front fenders just bolt right up, although it can be tricky to align everything because of the popup headlights..

Regarding the motor - what ZV said is correct, no 350s in 1985 AFAIK. So if it is indeed a 350, it's been swapped. One word of warning though - the 305 and the 350 TPI system is identical, BUT...the 305 came stock with 19 lb/hr injectors, the 350 with 22 lb/hr injectors. Plus, they used different ECM tuning. Some hack / backyard mechanics will drop a 350 in place of the 305, and swap everything over - including 305 injectors and ECM. Good for a quick cheap swap, bad for the longevity / performance of your motor. These things are hard to check though - once you know for sure what you have, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to get the proper ECM / injectors from a parts car, just so you at least know they're correct.

Also, I seem to remember something about the 1985 TPIs using a different ECM than the later cars, although I can't remember the details. This might be a way to tell if the ECM at least has been swapped over - look up the ECM numbers for a 1985 vs a later model, and match the numbers to the ECM in the car to check it.

Join up here and start reading. There is a ton of information available on that board about those cars. You should find answers to most of your questions there just by searching.

Good luck with it, make sure to post up some pics if you get it...

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: herm0016
thanks ZV.

i have also heard rumors that the harmonic balancer is much smaller on the 305, but have not really been able to confirm this.

edit... wow?? did not know this would be so controversial? anywho...

thanks marlin. i thought the heads were interchangeable also.

he is asking 2500, i think its worth closer to 1500. i have to consider that i will have to drive it from fort worth tx to rock springs wy to get it home also.

IIRC, the 305 used a 5.75" diameter harmonic balancer while the 350 used a either a 6" or larger diameter. However, I think that this distinction was not maintained throughout all model years, plus either balancer will physically bolt onto either engine, so it's not a guaranteed tell if the balancer was ever replaced.

ZV

 

[herm0016]

black88gta

the body damage is stuff i can bang out pretty easy with a little work. front right fender is the worst, a bit folded up ahead of the front wheel but still pretty easily reparable. probably 2 that would require bondo. the carpet is in pretty good shape, the trunk and back seats look great, the orig. spare and jack are there. windows are all working, dash looks pretty good, gauges work. I was looking at this one because of the new alt, pwr steering, battery, battery cables, rebuilt transmission. the body and suspension components are almost completely free of rust, door bottoms are perfect, trunk well is perfect. needs window fuzzies, but the t-tops are in good shape and don't leak too much ( not any discoloration of headliner) just the "factory" leaks by the door glass ( yay frameless door glass) they put chrome edelbrock valve covers on it, have the fake braided hose coverings on most of the stuff in the engine bay, new gaskets on all the intake components because of a replaced sensor. car runs very smooth, has good power, runs clean and smooth.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: herm0016
thanks ZV.

i have also heard rumors that the harmonic balancer is much smaller on the 305, but have not really been able to confirm this.

edit... wow?? did not know this would be so controversial? anywho...

thanks marlin. i thought the heads were interchangeable also.

he is asking 2500, i think its worth closer to 1500. i have to consider that i will have to drive it from fort worth tx to rock springs wy to get it home also.

$2500 is way too much for that car based on your description of it.

 

[AdamK47]

I had an 86 TA. I gave it away for free.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: herm0016
thanks ZV.

i have also heard rumors that the harmonic balancer is much smaller on the 305, but have not really been able to confirm this.

edit... wow?? did not know this would be so controversial? anywho...

thanks marlin. i thought the heads were interchangeable also.

he is asking 2500, i think its worth closer to 1500. i have to consider that i will have to drive it from fort worth tx to rock springs wy to get it home also.

$2500 is way too much for that car based on your description of it.

If a car runs at all, it's worth $1,000. $1,500 to $2,000 for the car, assuming that it is indeed in strong mechanical shape, is not at all unreasonable.

Remember the Top Gear episode where they drove $1,000 cars on a trip through the South? I would almost guarantee that the car the OP is discussing is in far better shape than the $1,000 Camaro that Jeremy Clarkson ended up driving.

If the car is solid mechanically and without rust, then $2,500 is not an unreasonable starting point for negotiations. I would say that the OP shouldn't end up paying any more than $2,000. KBB shows $1,700-ish for "fair" condition, but that assumes that there are mechanical faults in addition to cosmetic ones, so the car's true value is going to be higher than that.

If the car is legitimately mechanically sound and everything works properly, then $2,000 seems fair unless the description of "some dents" is more severe than I think.

I mean, I describe my 951 as having "some dents" and with front seats that are "torn a little" but it's mechanically pristine and the dents and tears are simply normal wear for a 23 year old car with over 160,000 miles.

ZV

EDIT: Never mind. If one of the fenders is "a bit folded up" then $2,000 is too much. Bondo is a bad thing for a car to need.

 

[bruceb]

Photos of the vehicle in question would allow us to better judge the value of that car. From the description of the body damage,
I would suspect the inner fender may be bent. That is a unibody car and if it is bent repairs are harder. Personally, I would not offer more than $1000 for it.

 

[herm0016]

http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/1195119213.html

this is the car. the front fender will need a little bondo, but its not even bad enough to crack the nose. the other dents will require me drilling a hole in the door jamb or taking the interior panel out and poping them out, should not need bondo, maybe just a little skim. I think i will just let him know what i see as problems, and see if he drops the price, then offer around 1300 or so to see how bad he wants to sell it, probably go up to 1700 or so depending on what we can work out. I will cite other recently sold cars that are in better shape, and the price or seat covers, fixing body damage, etc.

 

[theblackbox]

trans am. bondo...those words just flow together.

 

[CurseTheSky]

Originally posted by: herm0016
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/1195119213.html

this is the car. the front fender will need a little bondo, but its not even bad enough to crack the nose. the other dents will require me drilling a hole in the door jamb or taking the interior panel out and poping them out, should not need bondo, maybe just a little skim. I think i will just let him know what i see as problems, and see if he drops the price, then offer around 1300 or so to see how bad he wants to sell it, probably go up to 1700 or so depending on what we can work out. I will cite other recently sold cars that are in better shape, and the price or seat covers, fixing body damage, etc.

From the pictures (which can be deceiving), it looks like it's in pretty good shape. $1500-2000 would be fair in my opinion.

 

[herm0016]

purchased... 2k

i drove it about 10 miles down the highway and it drove pretty well. everything but the cruise control and air work. defog, new stereo. and they are going to deliver it to me.

ill get some pics this weekend!

 

[theblackbox]

cool, hope you enjoy it.

sidenote: terrell tx. i think chuck norris led the local police on a huge drug bust there a few years back. now that you got the firebird from there, they probably only have about 400 left in trailer town.

i actually bought a car there once, an 86 omni glhs....

 

[herm0016]

Originally posted by: theblackbox
cool, hope you enjoy it.

sidenote: terrell tx.

haha.. yea... its pretty back woods. reminds me of Wyoming!

 

[herm0016]

moar pics!

 

[JulesMaximus]

Congrats.

Honestly, I think you paid too much for it but enjoy.

 

[SonicIce]

why is it that trans ams/firebirds and camaros are always so beat on?

 

[AdamK47]

Originally posted by: SonicIce
why is it that trans ams/firebirds and camaros are always so beat on?

Cheap and daily driven.