80k-100k Protest in North Carolina

[First]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...ers-split-over-republicans-democrats-in-2014/

Yes, extremely unpopular. Remember, this was the party everyone thought was all done after 2012.

Except Republicans have been and still are thoroughly defeated post-2012. Their election prospects can't get any better than they are now with Obamacare fumbles and government/political scandals under Obama's watch, yet Repubs through all of this still can't sniff better than even with Dems in the polls (meanwhile, by this point in 2010 they were up 4 points in the RCP averages, so there will be no wave this year). They literally have to run the Senate table in 2014 to have the bare minimum majority, something they are certain to lose in the 2016 Senate map anyway, along with in all likelihood the presidency.

They're finished, and their Tea Party fracturing will splinter the official Republican party by 2016. It's just not entirely obvious to many yet.

 

[Matt1970]

Being in a dead heat in the polls as the opposition party in the 2nd term mid term elections, with an unpopular President, is not something to be proud of.

I'm just making observations here. If you keep telling voters not to vote for you, sooner or later you're going to lose elections.

It might help if you open both eyes while making those observations.

 

[First]

It might help if you open both eyes while making those observations.

Oh the ironing.

 

[PokerGuy]

But what is at the crux of our disagreement on one issue, voter ID? You see it as a needed way to verify who you are. And I would say that that assumes that illegal voting is a problem.

1) how do you know that it is or is not a problem if nobody can verify ID? Not having a way to verify if there is a problem is not the same as there not being one. 2) even if it isn't a problem now, what's wrong with being proactive and putting measures in place to make sure it doesn't become a problem? It's the logical thing to do.

And I would ask why the verification is so important now? Everything has been working mostly well in our elections up until now.

Last I checked we now have more than 14 million illegals in the country, more than enough to change the outcome of elections at all levels.

Where were these protesting idiots when measures are put into place that place severe burdens on people who want to exercise their 2nd amendment rights?

 

[Vic]

It might help if you open both eyes while making those observations.

Assuming that I don't have both eyes open, as you claim, what would that 2nd eye tell me? That I'll be uncool if I don't vote with the cool kids?

 

[Texashiker]

That's what they're counting on. Single-issue voters

I am far from a single issue voters. Republicans align themselves with what I believe - abortion, gun rights, personal responsibility, liberty, freedom,,,, to name a few.

while they gut everything good about America and give the scraps to the robber barons.

Excuse me? Bill Clinton signed nafta and gatt that helped send jobs to mexico and china.

Democrats leverage minority groups for the votes. But if democrats had their way minorities would be either picking cotton or in internment camps.

Democrats have proven they do not care about your personal freedoms or liberties. Whether it was freeing the slaves, internment camps, outlawing the private ownership of gold, or drone strikes, democrats have a long history of crimes against humanity.

 

[Matt1970]

Except Republicans have been and still are thoroughly defeated post-2012. Their election prospects can't get any better than they are now with Obamacare fumbles and government/political scandals under Obama's watch, yet Repubs through all of this still can't sniff better than even with Dems in the polls. They literally have to run the Senate table in 2014 to have the bare minimum majority, something they are certain to lose in the 2016 Senate map anyway, along with in all likelihood the presidency.

They're finished, and their Tea Party fracturing will splinter the official Republican party by 2016. It's just not entirely obvious to many yet.

So the polls show it's a dead heat at this point and you still see it as the Republicans being finished. Sigh...

 

[Zaap]

It's the logical thing to do.

You'll notice though, that it's the side IN FAVOR of ignoring all immigration laws, amnesty, and flooding the country with illegal alien workforces that also insists there's never a problem with voter fraud. How do they know, when they're in favor of muddying the waters with potentially millions more people that aren't even here yet, with absolutely nothing in place to truly ensure there's never any fraud committed? Simple: they don't, and they don't care.

 

[Matt1970]

Assuming that I don't have both eyes open, as you claim, what would that 2nd eye tell me? That I'll be uncool if I don't vote with the cool kids?

It would tell you that the Republicans aren't "a party of unpopular ideas practicing the politics of exclusion". You are living prove that some people can be convinced of this but seeing as how 1/2 the country continues to vote for them their ideas can't be that unpopular.

 

[First]

So the polls show it's a dead heat at this point and you still see it as the Republicans being finished. Sigh...

As a governing party. You can't govern if you can't outpoll your opponents nationally.

 

[First]

It would tell you that the Republicans aren't "a party of unpopular ideas practicing the politics of exclusion". You are living prove that some people can be convinced of this but seeing as how 1/2 the country continues to vote for them their ideas can't be that unpopular.

Half the country votes for local Republicans, not Washington Republicans. Washington Republicans have sub-10% approval ratings, all-time lows that Dems never sniffed.

 

[Moonbeam]

Half the country votes for local Republicans, not Washington Republicans. Washington Republicans have sub-10% approval ratings, all-time lows that Dems never sniffed.

Matt has a brain defect. He's going to be hard to reach. Try a baseball bat and wear a helmet.

 

[sandorski]

More links:

Bill Moyers

HuffPo

Washington Times

 

[Vic]

It would tell you that the Republicans aren't "a party of unpopular ideas practicing the politics of exclusion". You are living prove that some people can be convinced of this but seeing as how 1/2 the country continues to vote for them their ideas can't be that unpopular.

Nobody said I like the Democrats either.
Let me give you an example to help explain my position. My home state of Oregon, now assumed on the national level to be a solid blue state (it's actually very divided at the local level), used to be a solid Republican state when the Republicans allowed moderates and even some liberals in their midst (which really wasn't that long ago). Most of our most popular and influential politicians, like Tom McCall and Mark Hatfield, were moderate Republicans.
What changed in the last 20 years that all but 1 of our representatives in Congress are Democrats, and we're facing Kitzhaber's certain reelection to his 4th term?

 

[Vic]

Detroit is a good example.

Why not use NYC or San Francisco as examples?

 

[SlickSnake]

Really surprised there is no thread on this, seems to be something that should be front page news.

I just don't understand how people can support such policies. What's occurring is such a leap backwards to the worst policies of the past. This is the result of Political corruption, both Ideologically and through the influence of $. Is this really the world you want your children to inherit?

North Carolina is still a part of the USA? Who knew?

But I generally have to agree with the tea party protestors. Or the anti-tea party protestors. This is just getting all too confusing for me to keep up lately.

 

[BUnit1701]

Nobody said I like the Democrats either.
Let me give you an example to help explain my position. My home state of Oregon, now assumed on the national level to be a solid blue state (it's actually very divided at the local level), used to be a solid Republican state when the Republicans allowed moderates and even some liberals in their midst (which really wasn't that long ago). Most of our most popular and influential politicians, like Tom McCall and Mark Hatfield, were moderate Republicans.
What changed in the last 20 years that all but 1 of our representatives in Congress are Democrats, and we're facing Kitzhaber's certain reelection to his 4th term?

The problem with the country as a whole is for 50 years 'moderate' Republicans have been running off to Washington and helping the Democrats advance a Big Government agenda. We (conservative Republicans) are sick and tired of voting R just to get the D agenda at the end of the day.

 

[Genx87]

The problem with the country as a whole is for 50 years 'moderate' Republicans have been running off to Washington and helping the Democrats advance a Big Government agenda. We (conservative Republicans) are sick and tired of voting R just to get the D agenda at the end of the day.

There is probably something to that. However that doesnt explain the Republicans refusal since Bush in 04 to sway Latinos. And the black vote you can forget about it.

The demographics say if the Republican party is to survive as a major national party over the next 30-50 years. They will have to change their tune.

 

[Vic]

The problem with the country as a whole is for 50 years 'moderate' Republicans have been running off to Washington and helping the Democrats advance a Big Government agenda. We (conservative Republicans) are sick and tired of voting R just to get the D agenda at the end of the day.

Politics is the applied art of the compromise. If you don't or won't compromise, eventually you won't have a seat at the table (or at least not a good one).

 

[BUnit1701]

Politics is the applied art of the compromise. If you don't or won't compromise, eventually you won't have a seat at the table (or at least not a good one).

And what has 50 years of compromise gotten us thus far?

 

[BUnit1701]

There is probably something to that. However that doesnt explain the Republicans refusal since Bush in 04 to sway Latinos. And the black vote you can forget about it.

The demographics say if the Republican party is to survive as a major national party over the next 30-50 years. They will have to change their tune.

Sway how? By folding on our core beliefs? What is the point then?

 

[berzerker60]

And what has 50 years of compromise gotten us thus far?

Enormous economic growth, continued global hegemony, a more just and freer society in racial terms (arguably against what some Tea Partiers want, I know), far lower top tax brackets and overall taxes, continued disproportionate power in national politics relative to portion of the population. I know you want to believe you're a martyr and everything is going to shit with these damned kids today, but people have been saying that literally forever, and America's actually in a pretty great place still in most ways, relative to history and to others in the present.

Also the South used to be way worse off economically then it is relative to the North, its education was much worse. Violent crime is way down these days relative to a few decades ago. Lots of other stuff.

 

[Genx87]

Sway how? By folding on our core beliefs? What is the point then?

What are your core beliefs that couldnt be inclusive of blacks and latinos?

Think about this for a second and realize Bush gathered around 40-45% of the hispanic vote in 04.

 

[Vic]

And what has 50 years of compromise gotten us thus far?

A seat at the table. I thought that was implied in what I said.

 

[werepossum]

One of the first things I learned in debate class was to not use insults against your opponent. It makes you argument look weak without actually saying why you disagree.

We could all beat ourselves senseless by claiming one side sees the other as a stereotype, a bigot, or by these endless, useless (IMO) insults.

But what is at the crux of our disagreement on one issue, voter ID? You see it as a needed way to verify who you are. And I would say that that assumes that illegal voting is a problem. I would also say that some who are eligible to vote don't have an ID for reasons of poverty and age (not being able to renew, etc.). I would also point out that my opinion of people who don't have ID is not that they're unAmerican, and I don't think they should not be included. Making everyone carry an ID of the state is unAmerican IMO.

Also since elections are so close sometimes, it would be an advantage to get a few less of your opponents supporters to vote. I believe that is what they're going for with these laws.

And I would ask why the verification is so important now? Everything has been working mostly well in our elections up until now. Laws were changed in this country in the '60's to prevent states from doing things like this, because it didn't fit American values at the time. Since the Supreme Court struck down those laws, the floodgates are open.

Why is ID verification important to you?

Fine. All I ask is that you carry that same philosophy throughout government interaction. We've already seen the effect of relying on someone's word that they are qualified for the mortgage they want, but if that's the direction we must go, fine. If I want to buy a gun, I should have the right to do so on my word that I am legally allowed to own a gun and that I am who I say I am. No ID, no waiting period, just mail me a packet to fill out, and if that packet bounces, keep assuming I am a legal buyer unless you somehow serendipitously learn otherwise - in which case, consider me a fluke that could never happen twice. If I want to sign up for welfare, just take my word that I am who I am, that I qualify for welfare, that I'm not collecting anywhere else under any other name. If I want a government loan, grant it, as long as I say I qualify for that particular program. To do otherwise would be un-American by your own definition.

And since elections are so close sometimes that it would be an advantage to get a few less of your opponents supporters to vote, ignore the fact that it would also be an advantage to get a few more of your supporters to vote, regardless of qualification or whether they've voted already.