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800 HP Ford Option SuperSnake for 2012

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You guys seen those Underground Racing videos of the guys racing those 1300-1550 hp TT Lamborghinis against the 300 hp Hayabusa?
 
While I realize it's not a SuperSnake, I'm considering buying this:

2011-Shelby-GT500-Mustang-0.jpg


DO WANT
 
Throckmorton said:
Wait... the max torque is 590ftlb. It gets to 800hp by revving high, not by being a torque monster. So unless you're dropping the clutch at high RPM, shouldn't it be just as tractionable as any other 590ftlb vehicle?
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590lb/ft of torque and it is not a torque monster? That alone is 80 more than a regular GT500 so it will be pretty bad. I only have 550 and I can break the tires loose on my car once it gets over 3000rpm for a bogged launch.
 
Throckmorton said:
Wait... the max torque is 590ftlb. It gets to 800hp by revving high, not by being a torque monster. So unless you're dropping the clutch at high RPM, shouldn't it be just as tractionable as any other 590ftlb vehicle?
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Most people would probably call it a torque monster if it had 400HP and 590ft-lb.
 
Throckmorton said:
Wait... the max torque is 590ftlb. It gets to 800hp by revving high, not by being a torque monster. So unless you're dropping the clutch at high RPM, shouldn't it be just as tractionable as any other 590ftlb vehicle?
Click to expand...

That number does not seem correct and is likely a result of a tune and pulley over spinning the stock M122 Eaton. Note the 800 HP Kenne Bell option is a separate option.

A 4.6 with a twin screw produces equal torque and hp (its nearly a perfectly square engine@ 3.50 x 3.55) The 5.4 is the same bore and achieves its near extra liter from being severely stroked with a taller deck, and generally produces more torque than HP. As consequence of it's ridiculous stroke and stroke to rod length ratio, its not a high revving engine either. That 590 lbft number can't be right unless it was intentionally tuned that way or running on a less efficient blower.

Why it would have 3.73 gears is beyond me, it needs 3.55 or 3.23.

I guarantee the Kenne Bell 800 hp option is way more than 590 lb ft unless they held timing on purpose to hold torque flat at an attempt at traction and still produce that magical 800 hp number
 
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KentState said:
590lb/ft of torque and it is not a torque monster? That alone is 80 more than a regular GT500 so it will be pretty bad. I only have 550 and I can break the tires loose on my car once it gets over 3000rpm for a bogged launch.
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But that's a long way from needing racing slicks the size of tractor tires. That's within the realm of passenger vehicles. The F250 Diesel has a 800ftlb-- with different gearing yes, but also hard compound truck tires.
 
exdeath said:
That number does not seem correct and is likely a result of a tune and pulley over spinning the stock M122 Eaton. Note the 800 HP Kenne Bell option is a separate option.

A 4.6 with a twin screw produces equal torque and hp (its nearly a perfectly square engine@ 3.50 x 3.55) The 5.4 is the same bore and achieves its near extra liter from being severely stroked with a taller deck, and generally produces more torque than HP. As consequence of it's ridiculous stroke and stroke to rod length ratio, its not a high revving engine either. That 590 lbft number can't be right unless it was intentionally tuned that way or running on a less efficient blower.

Why it would have 3.73 gears is beyond me, it needs 3.55 or 3.23.

I guarantee the Kenne Bell 800 hp option is way more than 590 lb ft unless they held timing on purpose to hold torque flat at an attempt at traction and still produce that magical 800 hp number
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Interesting. But can they set up the supercharger so it creates more boost at higher RPM and less lower?

I was thinking the same thing about the gears. Even the standard 3.55 gearing seems too short for a car. My Jeep has 3.55. If you're just spinning tires in 1st gear, why not gear taller? That way the gears are all more usable and you might end up with a faster 0-60 by making one fewer shift.
 
Throckmorton said:
Wait... the max torque is 590ftlb. It gets to 800hp by revving high, not by being a torque monster. So unless you're dropping the clutch at high RPM, shouldn't it be just as tractionable as any other 590ftlb vehicle?
Click to expand...


It's definitely doable within reason.

I'm running about 440 lb/ft of torque to the wheels on a DynoDynamics dyno, which is about 530 or so to the crank on a 2300 lb car.

It's very drivable thanks to a good chassis, suspension, and sticky tires. Sure, you can still light up the tires in 5th, but it's not too bad. There are others with easily over 300 lb/ft more than me.

Given this SuperSnake will weigh 3800 lbs or so, 590 lb/ft of torque to the crank isn't that crazy.
 
Throckmorton said:
But that's a long way from needing racing slicks the size of tractor tires. That's within the realm of passenger vehicles. The F250 Diesel has a 800ftlb-- with different gearing yes, but also hard compound truck tires.
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On a truck, there's a lot more weight on the tires, so you get higher static friction even though the coefficient might be less.
 
Throckmorton said:
Interesting. But can they set up the supercharger so it creates more boost at higher RPM and less lower?
Click to expand...

No. A belt drive PD blower is always spinning and displacing air at a constant ratio proportional to engine RPM. There is a very very small bypass valve for idle and cruise that shunts the inlet plenum directly to the lower intake bypassing the rotors. It exists to keep from compressing and heating air when you don't need it and creating unnecessary intercooler heat soak and improves parasitic efficiency at cruise and keeps the supercharger from cavitating in vacuum. But it's connected to a vacuum line and held open by vacuum. As soon as you get on it at all it slams shut as soon as you are above 2" of vacuum or so which happens instantly with a roots/twinscrew.

It's only big enough to supply the engine demand during idle and light cruise. The demand of the engine and force produced by the blower won't give a shit and will still build boost if the bypass is kept open, just slightly reduced eg a internal boost leak. Traction control and launch control in a supercharged car is calibrated strictly through timing, air fuel ratio, and the ABS system, and torque curve can be shaped as desired entirely with ignition timing calibration.

To achieve what you want, the boost stays the same, you just retard timing in the lower RPMS. This is the only practical reason that a severely stroked 5.4 with a twin screw would have a measly 590 lb/ft of torque with 800 HP. Note though you can limit torque and hold it constant through timing, but HP still climbs, though more slowly, until it reaches the magic 800 marketing number while still having a chance at traction. Then you start adding timing at the top just as the torque line starts to drop off as the blower starts to borderline it's efficiency range.


If you're just spinning tires in 1st gear, why not gear taller? That way the gears are all more usable and you might end up with a faster 0-60 by making one fewer shift.
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At the expense of falling flat on your face in 4th. You don't want a car like this to run away from someone to 100 then your fast car dies when you hit the next gear and they reel you in. Especially important for a car with the aero of a brick. 3.55 is the sweet spot for these cars with PD blowers. Running some of the bigger 3.4L whipples and turbos, especially turbos to allow for longer load and spool, you benefit from going slightly taller like 3.23. 3.73 and higher (shorter) in a twin screw 800+ HP car is retarded unless you are building a 1/8 mile 10.5 outlaw car.
 
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Kadarin said:
While I realize it's not a SuperSnake, I'm considering buying this:

2011-Shelby-GT500-Mustang-0.jpg


DO WANT
Click to expand...

The small body tweaks and move away from "retro" are starting to grow on me. Getting more edgy and angular and starting to look mean like a Terminator instead of a mouth breathing shark with Down's :awe:
 
exdeath said:
You can get used Gallardos for $100k, so it's not *that* crazy if you have a shop and build your own turbo kits and pipes from scratch.
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I don't get the feeling those guys were buying used, but even if they were, starting out with a $100K project car is pretty damn crazy. Not to mention making mods on a Lambo has GOT to be expensive as hell.
 
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