• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

800 Civilians Feared Dead in Fallujah

conjur

No Lifer
http://207.44.245.159/article7298.htm
BAGHDAD, Nov 16 (IPS) - At least 800 civilians have been killed during the U.S. military siege of Fallujah, a Red Cross official estimates.

Speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of U.S. military reprisal, a high-ranking official with the Red Cross in Baghdad told IPS that ?at least 800 civilians? have been killed in Fallujah so far.

His estimate is based on reports from Red Crescent aid workers stationed around the embattled city, from residents within the city and from refugees, he said.

?Several of our Red Cross workers have just returned from Fallujah since the Americans won't let them into the city,? he said. ?And they said the people they are tending to in the refugee camps set up in the desert outside the city are telling horrible stories of suffering and death inside Fallujah.?

The official said that both Red Cross and Iraqi Red Crescent relief teams had asked the U.S. military in Fallujah to take in medical supplies to people trapped in the city, but their repeated requests had been turned down.

A convoy of relief supplies from both relief organisations continues to wait on the outskirts of the city for military permission to enter. They have appealed to the United Nations to intervene on their behalf.

?The Americans close their ears, and that is it,? the Red Cross official said. ?They won't even let us take supplies into Fallujah General Hospital.?

The official estimated that at least 50,000 residents remain trapped within the city. They were too poor to leave, lacked friends or family outside the city and therefore had nowhere to go, or they simply had not had enough time to escape before the siege began, he said.

Aid workers in his organisation have reported that houses of civilians in Kharma, a small city near Fallujah, had been bombed by U.S. warplanes. In one instance a family of five was killed just two days ago, they reported.

?I don't know why the American leaders did not approach the Red Cross and ask us to deal with the families properly before the attacking began,? said a Red Cross aid worker, who also spoke on condition of anonymity.

?Suddenly they attacked and people were stuck with no help, no medicine, no food, no supplies,? he said. ?So those who could, ran for the desert while the rest were trapped in the city.?

If the U.S. forces would call a temporary cease-fire ?we could get our trucks in and get the civilians left in Fallujah who need medical care, we could get them out,? he said.

Mosques have organised massive collections of food and relief supplies for Fallujah residents as they did last April when the city was under attack, but these supplies have not been allowed into the city either.

The Red Cross official said they had received several reports from refugees that the military had dropped cluster bombs in Fallujah, and used a phosphorous weapon that caused severe burns.

The U.S. military claims to have killed 1,200 ?insurgents? in Fallujah. Abdel Khader Janabi, a resistance leader from the city has said that only about 100 among them were fighters.

?Both of them are lying,? the Red Cross official said. ?While they agree on the 1,200 number, they are both lying about the number of dead fighters.? He added that ?our estimate of 800 civilians is likely to be too low.?


The situation within Fallujah is grim, he said. If help does not reach people soon, ?the children who are trapped will most likely die.?

He said the Ministry of Health in the U.S.-backed interim Iraqi government had stopped supplying hospitals and clinics in Fallujah two months before the current siege.

?The hospitals do not even have aspirin,? he said. ?This shows, in my opinion, that they've had a plan to attack for a long time and were trying to weaken the people.?

You can visit http://dahrjamailiraq.com/email_list/ to subscribe or unsubscribe to the email list.

(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. Information Clearing House has no affiliation whatsoever with the originator of this article nor is Information Clearing House endorsed or sponsored by the originator.)
Fat lot of good it did to assault Falluja like that. Many of the insurgents slipped away while Bush was delaying due to the Nov. 2 election. Now we're fighting them in Mosul, Baquba, Ramadi, and other areas.
 
rose.gif
for the people of Fallujah.
 
Hopefully that estimate is not even close to being accurate, although even the loss of one inoccent life is a tragedy. According to the Irai govt. even the Red Crescent doesn't have legitimate knowledge due to the fact they have not been granted virtually any access.



 
There will never be a truly reliable number of non-combatant deaths IMO. This was Saddam city, and going only by the numbers captured the clear majority of them were Iraqi's, not foreign fighters. There are bound to be bodies found of what was known to be within the military age range in Iraq, from the 9 yr olds Saddam trained to be suicide bombers to the women and of course pretty much every male. Unless their is concrete evidence the person was not fighting, they will be classified a legitimate kill.
If there is even a tiny piece from any weapon ANYWHERE around them, they will get chalked up as a bad guy.

The sad part is this could have been easily avoided long ago. Saddam could have quickly and absolutely abided by UN sanctions, the people of Fallujah were some of the "best" treated under his rule. These people were spared the mass graves, the chemical weapons attacks, the wood chippers, the systematic rapes, etc........
 
Originally posted by: Alistar7
The sad part is this could have been easily avoided long ago. Saddam could have quickly and absolutely abided by UN sanctions
Why stop there? Maybe we shouldn't have supported Saddam in the 80s huh? You think that was a mistake?
 
Originally posted by: dahunan
too bad.. War is Hell... and they asked for it.
Ignorant doesn't do you justice. An invading army attacks a city and kills 800 civilians and you blame the people who live in the city. It's their city. American troops are murdering civilians in their own city. How can anyone possibly excuse this with "they asked for it"???

Half of America has lost their minds. An unprovoked invasion leads to over 100,000 civilian casualties and you have the morbid gall to say they asked for it.

Disgraceful.

 
Originally posted by: Alistar7
There will never be a truly reliable number of non-combatant deaths IMO. This was Saddam city, and going only by the numbers captured the clear majority of them were Iraqi's, not foreign fighters. There are bound to be bodies found of what was known to be within the military age range in Iraq, from the 9 yr olds Saddam trained to be suicide bombers to the women and of course pretty much every male. Unless their is concrete evidence the person was not fighting, they will be classified a legitimate kill.
If there is even a tiny piece from any weapon ANYWHERE around them, they will get chalked up as a bad guy.

The sad part is this could have been easily avoided long ago. Saddam could have quickly and absolutely abided by UN sanctions, the people of Fallujah were some of the "best" treated under his rule. These people were spared the mass graves, the chemical weapons attacks, the wood chippers, the systematic rapes, etc........

:thumbsup:

Yeah, it's too bad we waited as long as we did to rid Iraq of Saddam. We along with the world let the people of Iraq down by allowing Saddam to play the system for so long.

CsG
 
How do you tell a civilian from an insurgent? It's not like the insurgents wear uniforms or have terrorist stamped across their foreheads.
 
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: dahunan
too bad.. War is Hell... and they asked for it.
Ignorant doesn't do you justice. An invading army attacks a city and kills 800 civilians and you blame the people who live in the city. It's their city. American troops are murdering civilians in their own city. How can anyone possibly excuse this with "they asked for it"???

Half of America has lost their minds. An unprovoked invasion leads to over 100,000 civilian casualties and you have the morbid gall to say they asked for it.

Disgraceful.


get new batteries for your sarcasm detector 😉
 
What America has done in Fallujah is a disgrace. The truth will come out (not here in America unfortunately) that America has committed her latest atrocity in Iraq. Bush has ruined America's reputation. To the rest of the world we are no better than the barbaric conquering hordes throughout history.

BAGHDAD, Nov 16 (IPS) - "At least 800 civilians have been killed during the U.S. military siege of Fallujah, a Red Cross official estimates.

Speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of U.S. military reprisal, a high-ranking official with the Red Cross in Baghdad told IPS that ?at least 800 civilians? have been killed in Fallujah so far.

His estimate is based on reports from Red Crescent aid workers stationed around the embattled city, from residents within the city and from refugees, he said.

?Several of our Red Cross workers have just returned from Fallujah since the Americans won't let them into the city,? he said. ?And they said the people they are tending to in the refugee camps set up in the desert outside the city are telling horrible stories of suffering and death inside Fallujah.?

The official said that both Red Cross and Iraqi Red Crescent relief teams had asked the U.S. military in Fallujah to take in medical supplies to people trapped in the city, but their repeated requests had been turned down.

A convoy of relief supplies from both relief organisations continues to wait on the outskirts of the city for military permission to enter. They have appealed to the United Nations to intervene on their behalf.

?The Americans close their ears, and that is it,? the Red Cross official said. ?They won't even let us take supplies into Fallujah General Hospital.?

The official estimated that at least 50,000 residents remain trapped within the city. They were too poor to leave, lacked friends or family outside the city and therefore had nowhere to go, or they simply had not had enough time to escape before the siege began, he said."

 
Sandorski, I was just wondering. If two men say that you have cancer, does that mean their opinion is equal?

Your kindergarten level approach of evaluating opinions is asinine. Please take a nap.
 
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: dahunan
too bad.. War is Hell... and they asked for it.
Ignorant doesn't do you justice. An invading army attacks a city and kills 800 civilians and you blame the people who live in the city. It's their city. American troops are murdering civilians in their own city. How can anyone possibly excuse this with "they asked for it"???

Half of America has lost their minds. An unprovoked invasion leads to over 100,000 civilian casualties and you have the morbid gall to say they asked for it.

Disgraceful.


get new batteries for your sarcasm detector 😉

I'm so disgusted with the atrocities Bush is commiting IN OUR NAMES I think my sarcasm detector has fried a chip or two. 😱

 
Originally posted by: BBond
I'm so disgusted with the atrocities Bush is commiting IN OUR NAMES I think my sarcasm detector has fried a chip or two. 😱
If you aren't for action X you are against America, freedom, our troops, or all of the above.
 
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Sandorski, I was just wondering. If two men say that you have cancer, does that mean their opinion is equal?

Your kindergarten level approach of evaluating opinions is asinine. Please take a nap.

One man's opinion can't be more right or wrong tham another's. Doesn't that mean they are equal?
 
Originally posted by: cwjerome
"Maybe we shouldn't have supported Saddam in the 80s huh? You think that was a mistake?"

Not really.


So you think supporting a dictator was the right way to go? What happened to your vague morality garbage?
 
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: dahunan
too bad.. War is Hell... and they asked for it.
Ignorant doesn't do you justice. An invading army attacks a city and kills 800 civilians and you blame the people who live in the city. It's their city. American troops are murdering civilians in their own city. How can anyone possibly excuse this with "they asked for it"???

Half of America has lost their minds. An unprovoked invasion leads to over 100,000 civilian casualties and you have the morbid gall to say they asked for it.

Disgraceful.


get new batteries for your sarcasm detector 😉

I'm so disgusted with the atrocities Bush is commiting IN OUR NAMES I think my sarcasm detector has fried a chip or two. 😱

I am with you.. but feel totally helpless to change anything.
 
Originally posted by: Alistar7


The sad part is this could have been easily avoided long ago. Saddam could have quickly and absolutely abided by UN sanctions, the people of Fallujah were some of the "best" treated under his rule. These people were spared the mass graves, the chemical weapons attacks, the wood chippers, the systematic rapes, etc........

Oh for the love of God, stop acting as though this had anything to do with sanctions or Saddam's treatment of Iraqis. Bush invaded Iraq unprovoked on a pack of goddamn lies and now the blood of over 100,000 innocent civilians is on America's hands and the rest of the world is watching as we continue to commit atrocities. Is there nothing you won't excuse?

ETC...???

 
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: BBond
I'm so disgusted with the atrocities Bush is commiting IN OUR NAMES I think my sarcasm detector has fried a chip or two. 😱
If you aren't for action X you are against America, freedom, our troops, or all of the above.

You're really going to have to translate that for me. Action? What action? Conquering nations that pose no threat? Killing over a hundred thousand civilians and counting?

Am I mis-reading you? I certainly hope so. I can't believe anyone would condone what we are doing in Iraq.

 
If I get an opinion from a doctor on my headache, COULD it be more valid than the opinion of a cook? COULD the opinion of Thomas Jefferson on political theory be more valid than my 5 year-old niece?

Are all opinion created equal? Of course not... that's a damn fool thing to believe.

EDIT: infohawk, foreign policy isn't a philosophical theory class. Sometimes there's sh*tty decisions to make... Opposing/containing Iran was more important at that point. It's an imperfect world... we did what was most reasonably moral in that situation.
 
Back
Top