7850 with g6960?

[Klingenberg]

Hi,

I'm considering upgrading my 6670 to a 7850, however im not sure if the cpu will turn into a bottleneck?

It's just for casual gaming, although Im not sure if a 7770 will perform equally with the g6960?

 

[Termie]

Welcome to the forums!

It would probably be best to give us more information about your system (including power supply), your budget, what games you play, and why you'd like to upgrade. But in short, do not buy the 7850, both because of your CPU and because it's just for "casual gaming".

With more information, we can give you more detailed responses.

 

[Klingenberg]

Thanks,

My pc is just a Medion from aldi http://aldi.medion.com/md8352/dk/?refPage=aldi, with a G6960 + 6670 running on a 350 psu.

I've added an ssd(kingston hyperx 3k) making for very fast startup and loading times. For studies, movies and surfing I really like the pc.

I know it's recommended to use 500+, however I googled that it's usually a vast overstatement due to some 500 psu's only being able to able 200-250, and that i5 + 670 tops out at around 300 watt.

I haven't really got a budget, however I usually play games like Dirt 3, Batman, Tf2 and Civ v, so not really extreme graphics demand, although if possible, I would like to play the highest possible settings in 1080P. Don't need 2500-1600.

Is 7850 a bit overkill for casual gaming, and will the g6960 bottleneck it a lot?

 

[Termie]

The best option for you, in my opinion, is an HD7770. It will work fine on your power supply. You'll need to use a PCIe power connector from your PSU, or if it doesn't have one, you'll need a molex adapter.

You can see here that it will be nearly twice as fast: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/613?vs=536

An HD7850, in addition to being beyond what I'd pair with your PSU, would be very bottlenecked by your CPU.

 

[Klingenberg]

The best option for you, in my opinion, is an HD7770. It will work fine on your power supply. You'll need to use a PCIe power connector from your PSU, or if it doesn't have one, you'll need a molex adapter.

You can see here that it will be nearly twice as fast: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/613?vs=536

An HD7850, in addition to being beyond what I'd pair with your PSU, would be very bottlenecked by your CPU.

I think you're right. The price on 7850 however, is 1100 due to price cuts, to 850 dk for the 7770, which is only around 25% more for what seems to be 30%+ performance gains.

Obviously, it doesn't matter if the cpu can't feed it, however will it still deliver some extra gains in games that aren't heavily cpu demanding?

If I would upgrade the cpu too, would an i3 dual core with ht be a good match for the 7850, or would I be better off waiting for the next tock(Haswell I think), from Intel?

 

[Termie]

Almost any modern game, including Dirt3, Batman Arkham City, Deus Ex, Skyrim, and Battlefield 3, will have zero gain going from a 7770 to a 7850 on your processor.

If you can upgrade your system to an i3-2100, you'd experience significant gains in all those games with a 7850 versus a 7770. Hyperthreading is required to game on a >$100 GPU with a dual core at this point.

 

[MisterMac]

Clarkdales Nehalem Pentium - will bottleneck a 7850 i think.

Altho i'd be more concerned with the PSU.
You should know that Medion is some of the worst OEM quality wise builders in the entire european continent.
It's absolute crap ( It's sold by aldi, for fucks sake).


I'd be more concerned if the PSU has enough power for a 7770 tbh - figure out the rails on your PSU first.

It's most likely a really crappy one thats 200w capable max.


And you don't want a PSU drawing 80%+ constantly - especially a low Q one.

 

[raghu78]

Almost any modern game, including Dirt3, Batman Arkham City, Deus Ex, Skyrim, and Battlefield 3, will have zero gain going from a 7770 to a 7850 on your processor.

If you can upgrade your system to an i3-2100, you'd experience significant gains in all those games with a 7850 versus a 7770. Hyperthreading is required to game on a >$100 GPU with a dual core at this point.

thats not true. actually a pentium dual core at 3 Ghz will do fine in most games. check out the Pentium G2120 doing very well with a HD 7950

http://techreport.com/review/23750/amd-fx-8350-processor-reviewed/5
http://techreport.com/review/23750/amd-fx-8350-processor-reviewed/6
http://techreport.com/review/23750/amd-fx-8350-processor-reviewed/7

OP can you tell the amps on your +12v rail. it will be on the label on the side of your PSU. If you have 24 - 26A on the +12v rail you can easily run the HD 7850.

 

[WiseUp216]

I think a PSU should be your #1 concern at this point.

If you're willing to risk it, Termie is right about the 7770. It is your best option right now.

 

[jacktesterson]

We need to know more about the PSU to tell you.

I wouldn't go any higher than a 7770 most likely based on what we know.

 

[Klingenberg]

thats not true. actually a pentium dual core at 3 Ghz will do fine in most games. check out the Pentium G2120 doing very well with a HD 7950

http://techreport.com/review/23750/amd-fx-8350-processor-reviewed/5
http://techreport.com/review/23750/amd-fx-8350-processor-reviewed/6
http://techreport.com/review/23750/amd-fx-8350-processor-reviewed/7

OP can you tell the amps on your +12v rail. it will be on the label on the side of your PSU. If you have 24 - 26A on the +12v rail you can easily run the HD 7850.

http://imgur.com/ZOfpF

I think it says 16, although i'm not sure that's the right number. Would it be do?

Looks good with the benchmarks, had a feeling quad-cores are still not optimized for gaming, although the 99th percentile does show some signs.

 

[Klingenberg]

Clarkdales Nehalem Pentium - will bottleneck a 7850 i think.

Altho i'd be more concerned with the PSU.
You should know that Medion is some of the worst OEM quality wise builders in the entire european continent.
It's absolute crap ( It's sold by aldi, for fucks sake).


I'd be more concerned if the PSU has enough power for a 7770 tbh - figure out the rails on your PSU first.

It's most likely a really crappy one thats 200w capable max.


And you don't want a PSU drawing 80%+ constantly - especially a low Q one.

I know it's medion isn't exactly top of the line, although I had the assumption most brands are just assembling the pc's, meaning the only way to get "real" quality components is to build your own.

Atm I'm not gaming a lot, and apart from the fact that the pc is from Aldi, i kind of like it, and hopefully can upgrade it just a tad.

IF the psu blows, will it damage cpu, gfx etc?

 

[Klingenberg]

Almost any modern game, including Dirt3, Batman Arkham City, Deus Ex, Skyrim, and Battlefield 3, will have zero gain going from a 7770 to a 7850 on your processor.

If you can upgrade your system to an i3-2100, you'd experience significant gains in all those games with a 7850 versus a 7770. Hyperthreading is required to game on a >$100 GPU with a dual core at this point.

Not sure if it can fit on the current board, although definitely considering it though. With lower tdp, it would probably help fitting the 7850 also.

 

[raghu78]

http://imgur.com/ZOfpF

I think it says 16, although i'm not sure that's the right number. Would it be do?

Looks good with the benchmarks, had a feeling quad-cores are still not optimized for gaming, although the 99th percentile does show some signs.

No probs . Your PSU has dual +12v rails. +12v1 and +12v2 each with 16A. combined max power on +12v rails is 300w . so 25A on +12v rails. get the HD 7850. it draws 110w power. the pentium dual core draws 65w . you are safe. :thumbsup:

http://techreport.com/review/22705/xfx-radeon-hd-7850-and-7870-black-edition-graphics-cards/7

here is a HD 7850 PC with a 95w core i5 760 drawing 200w . so you should be able to do fine.

 

[Termie]

thats not true. actually a pentium dual core at 3 Ghz will do fine in most games. check out the Pentium G2120 doing very well with a HD 7950

http://techreport.com/review/23750/amd-fx-8350-processor-reviewed/5
http://techreport.com/review/23750/amd-fx-8350-processor-reviewed/6
http://techreport.com/review/23750/amd-fx-8350-processor-reviewed/7

OP can you tell the amps on your +12v rail. it will be on the label on the side of your PSU. If you have 24 - 26A on the +12v rail you can easily run the HD 7850.

You're showing performance of an [EDIT} ivy bridge. Not comparable.

Not sure if it can fit on the current board, although definitely considering it though. With lower tdp, it would probably help fitting the 7850 also.

I'm sorry - that's correct. You have socket 1156, and all new processors are on socket 1155.

Let me be clearer regarding your plan. I used to run my GTX460 with a dual core e8400. The GPU is equivalent to an HD 7700, and the processor was faster than yours.

I was completely cpu limited in every modern game I tried. Spending money on a 7850 for your system is a total waste.

 

[Klingenberg]

No probs . Your PSU has dual +12v rails. +12v1 and +12v2 each with 16A. combined max power on +12v rails is 300w . so 25A on +12v rails. get the HD 7850. it draws 110w power. the pentium dual core draws 65w . you are safe. :thumbsup:

http://techreport.com/review/22705/xfx-radeon-hd-7850-and-7870-black-edition-graphics-cards/7

here is a HD 7850 PC with a 95w core i5 760 drawing 200w . so you should be able to do fine.

Super, thanks. So 2 +12v lines is as good as one 24v?

 

[Klingenberg]

You're showing performance of a sandy bridge. Not comparable.



I'm sorry - that's correct. You have socket 1156, and all new processors are on socket 1155.

Let me be clearer regarding your plan. I used to run my GTX460 with a dual core e8400. The GPU is equivalent to an HD 7700, and the processor was faster than yours.

I was completely cpu limited in every modern game I tried. Spending money on a 7850 for your system is a total waste.

I think the g2120 is ivy bridge(g6960 is 32nm, not sure if sandy, edit it's clarkdale).

Thanks for your example, I have no doubt the cpu will limit the 7850, and most likely a lot. The price however is relatively lower, as the 7770 has not fallen in a while, and if the 7850 just gives 10-15% extra performance, I'm perfectly happy. However if the 7770 gives the exact same fps, it doesn't really matter how great the offer on the 7850 is.

From wiki I can tell 1156 provides support for Clarkdale. Would I be a lot better off trying to find a Core i3-560(seems to have hyperthreading)?

On a side note, Intel's model numbers for i-core are really confusing without google. On the first look, I have no idea telling whether I'm looking on a Clarkdale, Sandy bridge or Ivy bridge.

 

[Termie]

I think the g2120 is ivy bridge(g6960 is 32nm, not sure if sandy, edit it's clarkdale).

Thanks for your example, I have no doubt the cpu will limit the 7850, and most likely a lot. The price however is relatively lower, as the 7770 has not fallen in a while, and if the 7850 just gives 10-15% extra performance, I'm perfectly happy. However if the 7770 gives the exact same fps, it doesn't really matter how great the offer on the 7850 is.

From wiki I can tell 1156 provides support for Clarkdale. Would I be a lot better off trying to find a Core i3-560(seems to have hyperthreading)?

On a side note, Intel's model numbers for i-core are really confusing without google. On the first look, I have no idea telling whether I'm looking on a Clarkdale, Sandy bridge or Ivy bridge.

You could definitely try an i3-560, but I think it's always a bit risky to try to upgrade OEM systems.

You won't find any game tests with your cpu and a 7850. But here are a few tests for you to consider:

Your processor is significantly slower than a Phenom II X2 555: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phenom-ii-x2-555,2540-8.html

A Phenom II X2 is bad in Max Payne 3:
http://www.techspot.com/review/537-max-payne-3-performance/page7.html

A Phenom II X2 is terrible in Crysis 2:
http://www.techspot.com/review/379-crysis-2-performance/page8.html

A Phenom II X2 is very bad in Skyrim:
http://www.techspot.com/review/467-skyrim-performance/page7.html

A Phenom II X2 is very bad in Deus Ex:
http://www.techspot.com/review/436-deus-ex-human-revolution-performance-test/page7.html

All of those tests are with GPUs stronger than a 7850, but it doesn't matter - a 7850 will be bottlenecked to the exact same level in each case.

You're getting the combined wisdom of a lot of people here suggesting a 7770, and one person who links to Ivy Bridge data and says you'll be ok. Honestly, if you're concerned about value, I'd point you to the HD7750 - if it's significantly cheaper than the 7770, it's the absolutely best choice for your system.

 

[MisterMac]

Super, thanks. So 2 +12v lines is as good as one 24v?

nononononon.

FSP is the worst or one of the worst brands.
very common here in Denmark.

you have 1 rail - split between 2.
You can't draw 16A x 2.
200w on the 12v rail is very little, for a media pc imho.
Not to mention that FSP overrates massively.

I'd get 7770 - but be prepared that youd might need a psu upgrade - specially if you get an unstable system.


Altho id wager your 7770 will just about cut it - despite being 30-40% more powerhungry than a 6670 on average\peak load.


If you drop in a i5 nehalem - id get a new psu , a cheap 430 corsair won't cost you much,


EDIT:

As termie says, you might be happy with a 7750 - youll stay within the power-envelope for sure.
And you can save up for bigger upgrade later.

For your light usage - that would be more than fine.

 

[raghu78]

nononononon.

you have 1 rail - split between 2. You can't draw 16A x 2. 200w on the 12v rail is very little, for a media pc imho. Not to mention that FSP overrates massively.

I'd get 7770 - but be prepared that youd might need a psu upgrade - specially if you get an unstable system.

Altho id wager your 7770 will just about cut it - despite being 30-40% more powerhungry than a 6670 on average\peak load.

For your light usage - that would be more than fine.

http://imgur.com/ZOfpF

check the image uploaded by the OP. its 300w across both +12v rails combined. 300 / 12 = 25A. pretty decent for a CPU which draws less than 65w and GPU which draws 110w.

http://ark.intel.com/products/46483/Intel-Pentium-Processor-G6960-3M-Cache-2_93-GHz

Though the CPU TDP is 73w , that includes the integrated graphics. remember the OP would be using discrete graphics. power draw would be 60 - 65w TDP. even with HD 7850 the system won't draw more than 200w. so quite safe.

 

[MisterMac]

http://imgur.com/ZOfpF

check the image uploaded by the OP. its 300w across both +12v rails combined. 300 / 12 = 25A. pretty decent for a CPU which draws less than 65w and GPU which draws 110w.

http://ark.intel.com/products/46483/Intel-Pentium-Processor-G6960-3M-Cache-2_93-GHz

Though the CPU TDP is 73w , that includes the integrated graphics. remember the OP would be using discrete graphics. power draw would be 60 - 65w TDP. even with HD 7850 the system won't draw more than 200w. so quite safe.

You really don't get the whole PSU industry and their labelling and standards processes do you?

Read up on FSP reviews, actual decent reviews that look the inner caps.
Infact look up his, his exact model number.

 

[aaksheytalwar]

With that CPU it is a waste. Get at least a 750

 

[Klingenberg]

Thanks a lot for all your replies. Really helped me a lot towards deciding.

I think i'm going to build a new pc from scratch, both because I tihnk it could be fun, and because the current case and mb inevitably will become completely outdated fairly soon, and I would much rather like a system I can continously upgrade on. Any advice would be great!

You could definitely try an i3-560, but I think it's always a bit risky to try to upgrade OEM systems.

You won't find any game tests with your cpu and a 7850. But here are a few tests for you to consider:

Your processor is significantly slower than a Phenom II X2 555: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phenom-ii-x2-555,2540-8.html

A Phenom II X2 is bad in Max Payne 3:
http://www.techspot.com/review/537-max-payne-3-performance/page7.html

A Phenom II X2 is terrible in Crysis 2:
http://www.techspot.com/review/379-crysis-2-performance/page8.html

A Phenom II X2 is very bad in Skyrim:
http://www.techspot.com/review/467-skyrim-performance/page7.html

A Phenom II X2 is very bad in Deus Ex:
http://www.techspot.com/review/436-deus-ex-human-revolution-performance-test/page7.html

All of those tests are with GPUs stronger than a 7850, but it doesn't matter - a 7850 will be bottlenecked to the exact same level in each case.

You're getting the combined wisdom of a lot of people here suggesting a 7770, and one person who links to Ivy Bridge data and says you'll be ok. Honestly, if you're concerned about value, I'd point you to the HD7750 - if it's significantly cheaper than the 7770, it's the absolutely best choice for your system.

Thanks for the links Termie, I didn't actually realise it was comparing with a G6950 which I think is just a G6960 clocked a tad lower.

I had no idea an I5 had such a huge impact om fps!

I'm currently considering how to move on, however I'm thinking of just buying a case + psu, and then try to move all the interiors over to see if it works. Are pieces like cardreader, dvd, ram, hdd, mb, gfx and so on "universal" regarding compatability with case and psu, or should I go for something specific?

 

[Termie]

Many of your parts can be carried over to a new case. The motherboard should be a standard size, but some OEMs use custom boards, so it's hard to be sure. You can definitely reuse the hard drive, card reader, DVD, graphics card and RAM. If you want to just get some practice building a computer, moving all of these parts to a new case would give you that opportunity, and then once you've learned how to mount and connect all of the components, you can buy a new motherboard and CPU to start the upgrade process.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

I'd get 7770 - but be prepared that youd might need a psu upgrade - specially if you get an unstable system.

I would get a HD7770 AND this or this... should fit in OPs case without problems...

Dual 12v rails on a 300W/25A sounds like a recipe for smoking your PSU with a HD7850...

Yes, I am Danish...

Edit;

I'm currently considering how to move on, however I'm thinking of just buying a case + psu, and then try to move all the interiors over to see if it works. Are pieces like cardreader, dvd, ram, hdd, mb, gfx and so on "universal" regarding compatability with case and psu, or should I go for something specific?

Yep, so long as you use an ATX spec PSU everything should be mutually compatible...