7800GTX vs X1900XTX or wait for G71

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: nts

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: nts

Your choices

1) Buy an X1900XT or XTX if you want to overclock to the max
2) Wait for the G71 and compare to X1900, if you can't wait then see option 1

I would not recommend you get the GTX512, IMO not worth it

btw I just picked up the X1900XT (will arrive soon), so voted that way

Not everyone is comfortable "OCing $500-$600 cards to the max" nts. Some of us don't think those 5 extra fps are worth risking that much money?

I'm not planning on OC'ing my X1900 either.

My comment was meant as buy the XT for stock or if you are into OCing then get the XTX as it should reach a higher clock.

For stock IMO the XT is a better deal.

Agreed, the X1900XT is the best high end single card deal right now.

(with the possible exception of 512GTXs holding their miraculous resale value- hard to argue with bought/used/profited)

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: nib95

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: nts

Your choices

1) Buy an X1900XT or XTX if you want to overclock to the max
2) Wait for the G71 and compare to X1900, if you can't wait then see option 1

I would not recommend you get the GTX512, IMO not worth it

btw I just picked up the X1900XT (will arrive soon), so voted that way

Not everyone is comfortable "OCing $500-$600 cards to the max" nts. Some of us don't think those 5 extra fps are worth risking that much money?

So then dont overclock to the max. Overclock a little or dont overclock at all!

One of the whole points of the XTX version existing is that its basically a pre-overclocked XT for those who might not want to overclock themselves.
Dont then say "yes but its $100 more expensive", you cant have the best of all words.
My advice to that is, learn how to overclock.

Heh.

Dude, I've been gaming/OCing since OCing was invented. My point was OCing was originally conceived to get high dollar performance out of a low dollar part, or extend the life of a high end part that had lost it's resale value over time.

The current fashion of risking damage to parts that cost $500> for tiny gains doesn't make sense to me.

I can't return a part I've OCd and damaged in good conscience, and I'm not rich enough to not care if I have to replace a part I've damaged through my own misuse.

If you're well off enough to eat the loss, good for you. If you have no conscience and would commit warranty fraud, I guess it takes all kinds and I pity you.

I can probably figure out how to OC though, it's not rocket science.

 

[nts]

I said this in the other thread on the same subject...

I don't doubt that the G71 may be faster in some cases but it would not make any sense for NVIDIA to release a card that totally blows everything away at this point. All they need to do is be a little faster than the X1900.

Next gen cards are out at the end of the year (September, G80/R600) and those usually double the speed of previous parts.

Now why would NVIDIA put out a card that will also compete with its next gen parts?

IMO the current rumors of the G71 are inflated and personally I can't make any case for buying a GTX512 at this point.

If you want the best high-end card right now then get the X1900XT (or XTX if you OC).

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Buy the X1900 XTX! Using 1.5 v on the core I've got it stable at 780 mhz! Well worth the price of admission, BF2 has never been smoother.

Yeah, cuz one person's OC results dictate what everyone else will see. 😉

I voted wait. If the G71 isn't a better card (both performance and price), then you go with the X1900.

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: nts
I said this in the other thread on the same subject...

I don't doubt that the G71 may be faster in some cases but it would not make any sense for NVIDIA to release a card that totally blows everything away at this point. All they need to do is be a little faster than the X1900.

Next gen cards are out at the end of the year (September, G80/R600) and those usually double the speed of previous parts.

Now why would NVIDIA put out a card that will also compete with its next gen parts?

IMO the current rumors of the G71 are inflated and personally I can't make any case for buying a GTX512 at this point.

If you want the best high-end card right now then get the X1900XT (or XTX if you OC).

And your logic makes sense how? Why would it not behoove nVIDIA to release a head and shoulders better card to combat the X1900XT/X?

Now why would NVIDIA put out a card that will also compete with its next gen parts?

Ask ATi with the X1800/X1900, bud. Your logic is seriously flawed. The typical cycle is 6 months from rev to rev anymore. IMO it seems you have a very weak grasp on the way the video card market works, and your statements pretty much solidfy that.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: M0RPH
You seem to have more money than common sense, so I say head on over to eBay and place your bid on a 7800GTX 512MB. Maybe you can get a used one for 800 bucks.

Bloody hell M0rph, just because you would never buy an expensive graphics card (and 90% of the time I'm like you and buy lower down the chain) doesn't give you the right to insult those who do want to buy the best.

Anyhow, my advice is wait for G71, unless you have soemthing like a GF4MX and deperately want to game right now.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Buy the X1900 XTX! Using 1.5 v on the core I've got it stable at 780 mhz! Well worth the price of admission, BF2 has never been smoother.

Yeah, cuz one person's OC results dictate what everyone else will see. 😉

I voted wait. If the G71 isn't a better card (both performance and price), then you go with the X1900.

Go read xtremesystems, people on air are hitting 750+ ol' buddy.

 

[Pete]

Obviously waiting will net you the best choice, so that's my recommendation. If you can't wait, I'd say get a 7800GT if you plan on upgrading soon-ish, or a X1900XT if you don't want to think about upgrading for a year or two. Who knows, you might be able to ride a 7800GT longer than you think.

Only reason I'd be apprehensive about the X1900XT is the fan noise, which--as far as I can tell from various site and user reviews--will probably be at least slightly annoying in 3D mode if you're a quiet nut (like me) or acceptable if you don't pay particular attention to noise and have other buzzy fans in your case (cheap PSU or case fans, MB fans). I'm leaning toward NV offering a quieter stock cooling solution on their 7900, as they're quieter than ATI with all of the 7800s (GT, GTX, GTX-512).

But if speed's the key, you've got $500 burning a hole in your pocket, and you can't wait, it's hard not to recommend the X1900XT. Everything else is hedging your bets (and there's nothin' wrong with that).

 

[Pete]

FYI, if you want to wait, someone at B3D hinted that some guy at another forum said that NV will kick ATI's butt with the 7900. Yeah, yeah, so much nth-hand info, but that's what all these rumors are until we see a review. All we have on the "7900GTX" is Hexus' 3DM06 score, which puts it at ~13k vs. X1900XTX at ~11k. Beyond that, I'm not really sure of anything about the 7900 except that it should be at least competitive with the X1900. The keys are how competitive and at what price?

But surely they'll have something with 512MB at $500-550 MSRP to compete with the 512MB X1900XT. If you want to wait for that is your call.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Pete
Only reason I'd be apprehensive about the X1900XT is the fan noise, which--as far as I can tell from various site and user reviews--will probably be at least slightly annoying in 3D mode if you're a quiet nut (like me) or acceptable if you don't pay particular attention to noise and have other buzzy fans in your case (cheap PSU or case fans, MB fans). I'm leaning toward NV offering a quieter stock cooling solution on their 7900, as they're quieter than ATI with all of the 7800s (GT, GTX, GTX-512).

<thud>

That sound you just heard was BFG fainting in New Zealand when he saw the 60 and 61db noise output of ATIs new cards.

Holy buckets! 6db louder than 7800GTX SLI or 512 GTX?! :shocked:

I've said it before, I'll say it again: for that much money they could have put a Silencer on them?

 

[imported_boe]

What is out as far as a confirmed release date or price on the G71?

Thanks

 

[Praxis1452]

Buy the X1900XT then if the G71 is that much better ebay it. Otherwise I'd be pretty happy with the card and gotten an extra 6 weeks out of it which is pretty damn good as it seems all the top of the lin video cards are being replaced every 3 months -_-.

 

[Munky]

Wait a sec: is this yet another buy vs wait thread in addition to the 20 other threads, or am I just having flashbacks?

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: boe
What is out as far as a confirmed release date or price on the G71?

Thanks

A big goose egg, my friend. Absolutely nothing.

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: Rollo

That sound you just heard was BFG fainting in New Zealand when he saw the 60 and 61db noise output of ATIs new cards.

Holy buckets! 6db louder than 7800GTX SLI or 512 GTX?! :shocked:

I've said it before, I'll say it again: for that much money they could have put a Silencer on them?

Well maybe if they add about another 200 bucks to the price of their card like Nvidia's card, they could afford to put a better cooler on it.

 

[v8envy]

I don't know about you, but for what these cards are going for I expect them to be cooled by bikini-clad attractive young women with palm fronds.

Just get the X1900XT. You'll be so happy with the performance you get you won't want to upgrade to the G71.

 

[imported_Sifu]

Tradeoffs, tradeoffs.

ATI: available NOW, crummier/louder cooling, more irritating drivers, better IQ (that angle independent AF is cool), priced competitively, best thing on market now
nVidia: have to waaaaaiiiiiiitttttt for another month+, price unknown, performance unknown (although I'm betting it's a bit better than the x1900xt), better/quiter cooling options, might have to buy separate video decoder

They each have pros/cons, but if you look at how near the 7800GTX/512 and x1900xt are in performance, and look at the performance jumps that typically occur in nVidia refreshes, it isn't difficult to conclude that the 7900 will probably stomp the x1900xt pretty good.

 

[Keysplayr]

Agreed. Everything is a tradeoff. If you don't have a problem with the "possibility" of getting stomped by the 7900 next month, then go for it.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Pete
Only reason I'd be apprehensive about the X1900XT is the fan noise, which--as far as I can tell from various site and user reviews--will probably be at least slightly annoying in 3D mode if you're a quiet nut (like me) or acceptable if you don't pay particular attention to noise and have other buzzy fans in your case (cheap PSU or case fans, MB fans). I'm leaning toward NV offering a quieter stock cooling solution on their 7900, as they're quieter than ATI with all of the 7800s (GT, GTX, GTX-512).

<thud>

That sound you just heard was BFG fainting in New Zealand when he saw the 60 and 61db noise output of ATIs new cards.

Holy buckets! 6db louder than 7800GTX SLI or 512 GTX?! :shocked:

I've said it before, I'll say it again: for that much money they could have put a Silencer on them?

and has been shown elsewhere, +6db isn't much difference . . . especially depending on its frequency.

if you are that insistant on 'quiet' you can add a cheap Silencer yourself and still save a couple of hundred over the GTX. . . .

. . . and some people would even find 50 db annoying [those with hearing like a bat's]

😀

 

[akugami]

Originally posted by: Sifu
Tradeoffs, tradeoffs.

ATI: available NOW, crummier/louder cooling, more irritating drivers, better IQ (that angle independent AF is cool), priced competitively, best thing on market now
nVidia: have to waaaaaiiiiiiitttttt for another month+, price unknown, performance unknown (although I'm betting it's a bit better than the x1900xt), better/quiter cooling options, might have to buy separate video decoder

They each have pros/cons, but if you look at how near the 7800GTX/512 and x1900xt are in performance, and look at the performance jumps that typically occur in nVidia refreshes, it isn't difficult to conclude that the 7900 will probably stomp the x1900xt pretty good.

Normally I'd agree with you. The problem occurs in this edition of the GPU wars is that the 7800GTX 512MB was a highly limited cherry picked product. If we compare the X1900XT and the 7800GTX (not 512MB), we see that ATI's product really is unquestionably better. There are some glitches like puzzling performance in Black & White 2 but for the most part you can say the X1900XT is a better product.

Let's exclude the 512MB for a bit. The rumors are that the G71 core will allow nVidia to jump to 700mhz from the 7800GTX's current 430mhz. Think about this for a minute, they're saying that a drop from I believe 110nm (at least I think that's what they were using) to 90nm will allow 2x raw speed increase? If AMD, Intel and IBM couldn't get a 2x speed increase by dropping to 90nm (and believe me, Intel desperately needed it to keep pace with AMD), then what makes you think nVidia can do it?

If I had to place my bet, I'd say the mainstream part will be a G71 with 512MB of RAM with a core of 600mhz (this is roughly a 22% jump over the 7800GTX and 50mhz faster than the 512MB) with maybe 650-700mhz RAM. This would give it equal or slightly better performance to the highly limited 512MB edition due to higher GPU clock speed and optimizations in the GPU core much like the jump between the X1800 and X1900. It'd also reduce performance a bit due to less bandwith, faster RAM is much more expensive so for a more "mainstream" product they'd opt for slower RAM. Not to say video RAM at 650-700mhz is slow, just not as fast as the 850mhz of the 512MB. nVidia would then also release a highly cherry picked core that runs at 700mhz GPU and 850mhz RAM that does indeed kick the stuffing out of everything out there at the same price as current 512MB's.

I think this scenario is much more likely than the rumors of a G71 at 700mhz GPU that would be widely available when G70's at 550mhz are extremely limited. After all, this is a process shrink and optimization of an exhisting GPU, not a process shrink and a newly retooled GPU.

I'd have to say the widely available edition of the G71 will take the overall performance crown. I'm just not sure it'll stomp the competition as much as edge it out just enough to take the crown. The new "ultra" edition of the G71 will of course stomp all competition. But I have a feeling it won't be a realistic product to try for, much like the insanity with the 7800GTX 512MB's at the moment.

And on the off chance that nVidia does pull off the near impossible with a G71 cranked up to ludicrous speed, with wide availability and at a more manageable $550 price tag, I'll be holding off my purchase of a video card till then.

 

[jim1976]

It really depends on what you are planning to do with the next gen d3d10 cards. (if you want to purchase one in the early release)
Rumours say G80 will be here somewhere in mid summer before ATIs solution and will present except SM4.0 some nice architectural improvements.. 😉
G71 also said that was delayed due to transfer of personnel to G80 research. G71 will be noticeably faster than GTX512 if you ask me (I have a hunch 😉 ).
So to me you can't ask something like this. G71 will be fast enough, probably faster than x1900xtx overall, so you can wait. Or you can buy a x1900xtx now if you plan on getting a d3d10 card in 4-5 months. Or you can buy x1900xtx now and buy G71 and G80 later.. I don't know your wallet.. 😛
I knew that G71 will be tempting to wait but with all the delay I decided to go for the damn fast x1900xt from my gtx256.. I need at least 6 months to justify spending some extra bucks for the purchase of a gpu, because I plan on getting a d3d10 gpu. And you will see.. G80 will be here in mid summer 😉 .
My opinion. Don't ask others.. Do what you feel and most importantly. Don't regret for your decisions, especially in a rapid growing market as the gpu market is.. 🙂

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Pete
Only reason I'd be apprehensive about the X1900XT is the fan noise, which--as far as I can tell from various site and user reviews--will probably be at least slightly annoying in 3D mode if you're a quiet nut (like me) or acceptable if you don't pay particular attention to noise and have other buzzy fans in your case (cheap PSU or case fans, MB fans). I'm leaning toward NV offering a quieter stock cooling solution on their 7900, as they're quieter than ATI with all of the 7800s (GT, GTX, GTX-512).

<thud>

That sound you just heard was BFG fainting in New Zealand when he saw the 60 and 61db noise output of ATIs new cards.

Holy buckets! 6db louder than 7800GTX SLI or 512 GTX?! :shocked:

I've said it before, I'll say it again: for that much money they could have put a Silencer on them?

and has been shown elsewhere, +6db isn't much difference . . . especially depending on its frequency.

if you are that insistant on 'quiet' you can add a cheap Silencer yourself and still save a couple of hundred over the GTX. . . .

. . . and some people would even find 50 db annoying [those with hearing like a bat's]

😀

Actually, no, it has not been shown elsewhere. Shall I refer to are discussion in the other thread? I thought I learned ya apoppin. +6 dB is a HUGE difference. Besides. it's 7 to 8 on HardOCP's decibel test at stage II. Where the hell do you get off saying +6 decibels isn't much difference?!? DO NOT MISINFORM THESE FOLKS ANY LONGER. Is the X1900XT faster than the GTX512? Most of the time yes. Is it as quiet or just a scooooch louder than the GTX512? In your dreams. According to your very own links in the other thread, the X1900XTx is just shy of TWICE as loud. You said it yourself. Human ear perceives a doubling of sound volume with an increase of 10dB, which is wrong, but we will go with it to YOUR benefit. So folks, how loud would you think a 7 to 8dB increase be? Just short of twice according to apoppin.

Everyone do yourselves a favor. Apoppin here has an agenda. It's pretty weird actually and I can't get my mind around it. This guy instantly, almost overnight turned Pure 100
% ATI fanboy to the nth power.

So, when you read posts from him, tread carefully. Because he just flat out lied to all of you and he is well aware of it because we just went through the same BS in another thread. Watch out for this guy, his agenda has altered him in some way.

Link to other thread about noise and decibels

I will honestly tell you, that you should listen to Ackmed, before even considering listening to this guy. And for me, that is saying something.

/peace.

 

[Steelski]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Pete
Only reason I'd be apprehensive about the X1900XT is the fan noise, which--as far as I can tell from various site and user reviews--will probably be at least slightly annoying in 3D mode if you're a quiet nut (like me) or acceptable if you don't pay particular attention to noise and have other buzzy fans in your case (cheap PSU or case fans, MB fans). I'm leaning toward NV offering a quieter stock cooling solution on their 7900, as they're quieter than ATI with all of the 7800s (GT, GTX, GTX-512).

<thud>

That sound you just heard was BFG fainting in New Zealand when he saw the 60 and 61db noise output of ATIs new cards.

Holy buckets! 6db louder than 7800GTX SLI or 512 GTX?! :shocked:

I've said it before, I'll say it again: for that much money they could have put a Silencer on them?

and has been shown elsewhere, +6db isn't much difference . . . especially depending on its frequency.

if you are that insistant on 'quiet' you can add a cheap Silencer yourself and still save a couple of hundred over the GTX. . . .

. . . and some people would even find 50 db annoying [those with hearing like a bat's]

😀

Actually, no, it has not been shown elsewhere. Shall I refer to are discussion in the other thread? I thought I learned ya apoppin. +6 dB is a HUGE difference. Besides. it's 7 to 8 on HardOCP's decibel test at stage II. Where the hell do you get off saying +6 decibels isn't much difference?!? DO NOT MISINFORM THESE FOLKS ANY LONGER. Is the X1900XT faster than the GTX512? Most of the time yes. Is it as quiet or just a scooooch louder than the GTX512? In your dreams. According to your very own links in the other thread, the X1900XTx is just shy of TWICE as loud. You said it yourself. Human ear perceives a doubling of sound volume with an increase of 10dB, which is wrong, but we will go with it to YOUR benefit. So folks, how loud would you think a 7 to 8dB increase be? Just short of twice according to apoppin.

Everyone do yourselves a favor. Apoppin here has an agenda. It's pretty weird actually and I can't get my mind around it. This guy instantly, almost overnight turned Pure 100
% ATI fanboy to the nth power.

So, when you read posts from him, tread carefully. Because he just flat out lied to all of you and he is well aware of it because we just went through the same BS in another thread. Watch out for this guy, his agenda has altered him in some way.

Link to other thread about noise and decibels

I will honestly tell you, that you should listen to Ackmed, before even considering listening to this guy. And for me, that is saying something.

/peace.

Really really rich coming from you.
Talking about agendas and fanboys........
Key splayr.............FUD sprayer more like. I dout that the card is so ear piercing loud that it can not be run in most computers..... i bet most of us dont even close our case.

 

[darXoul]

Heh, I'm in the same boat now with my upgrade - I have the money, I have the willingness to buy something better than I'm using now, but the video card circus is holding me back.

I think, after all I will wait for G71 but even if the current rumored specs (700+ MHz core, etc.) aren't inflated, I see one potential issue here - where it really matters, the G71 may very well clearly lose against X1900. I guess 7900 GTX may be an overall faster card than X1900XTX in most benchmarks, but I don't care whether my card hits 80 or 110 fps in a game. I do care about differences like 30 vs. 50 frames, e.g. in F.E.A.R. Some of you might say it's a poorly coded game, an aberration, anomaly, blah blah. I don't think so. Most game developers seem to add more and more shaders to the new engines. And you can't deny that F.E.A.R. is probably the most extreme example. Here nVidia gets owned badly. In 1600*1200 with AA/AF, the new Raddy is 65% faster than the GTX 512. Do you think that G71 can close this gap? IMO, no way. I'm just a bit worried (since I'm an nVidia guy, so to speak, plus I care a lot about silence) that the G71 will be badly trashed by ATi in shader-heavy games where frame rates differences are not just academic benchmarks but numbers which have an impact on the real world gaming experience.

 

[vaccarjm]

Originally posted by: M0RPH
You seem to have more money than common sense, so I say head on over to eBay and place your bid on a 7800GTX 512MB. Maybe you can get a used one for 800 bucks.

Guy asks for advice and you insult him? Intead of ignoring his thread you went out of your way to post your insult?

Mods need to clean some of this trash up.