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780 ti vs 290x

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boxleitnerb

Platinum Member
Nov 1, 2011
2,597
1
81
GPU-Z and Nvidia's driver report the DX-level correctly as DX11.0 and DX11.1 with feature level 11.0 respectively.
But at least in the beginning, the driver reported feature level 11.1 iirc.

Yet I don't see the problem since Nvidia supports all relevant DX11.1 features and afaik BF4 uses them already.
 

boxleitnerb

Platinum Member
Nov 1, 2011
2,597
1
81
If there is no difference in actual games, who cares if it supports full DX11.1?
But I have to admit, it remains to be seen if other games actually use Nvidia's supported 11.1 features or if they just downgrade the game to 11.0 features if an Nvidia card is present.
 

Abwx

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2011
9,146
990
126
If there is no difference in actual games, who cares if it supports full DX11.1?
But I have to admit, it remains to be seen if other games actually use Nvidia's supported 11.1 features or if they just downgrade the game to 11.0 features if an Nvidia card is present.
Of course we would have to care only if the tables were turned...

The game will be degraded to 11.0 once a Gforce is used ,
it wasnt important with 11.1 wich was a marginal update
with the bulk of the mods being done in 11.2 wich is THE
significative update.
 

boxleitnerb

Platinum Member
Nov 1, 2011
2,597
1
81
Of course we would have to care only if the tables were turned...
Please don't flame.

The game will be degraded to 11.0 once a Gforce is used ,
it wasnt important with 11.1 wich was a marginal update
with the bulk of the mods being done in 11.2 wich is THE
significative update.
Speculation at this point since there is no DX11.1 game out there right now.
The most prominent feature of DX11.2 are tiled resources tier 1 and 2. Nvidia supports tiled resources although they don't support DX11.2:
http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2013/06/26/higher-fidelity-graphics-with-less-memory-at-microsoft-build/
 

Abwx

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2011
9,146
990
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Please don't flame.
The flamebait is to downplay the radeon features
once gforce are lacking thoses futures...


Speculation at this point since there is no DX11.1 game out there right now.
The most prominent feature of DX11.2 are tiled resources tier 1 and 2. Nvidia supports tiled resources although they don't support DX11.2:
http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2013/06/26/higher-fidelity-graphics-with-less-memory-at-microsoft-build/
They released a DX11.0 only GPU for time to market reasons,
i guess that they have implemented 11.1 or even 11.2 on silicon
but it was still broken implementation and they were pressed by the already released 7970...

As for 11.2 it brings a lot more than tiled ressources ,
just check at MS.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/bg182880.aspx

Funny thing is that some people did tests of BF4 beta with Gforces
and compared the results to 290X , ignoring that BF4 is 11.2.
 

boxleitnerb

Platinum Member
Nov 1, 2011
2,597
1
81
The flamebait is to downplay the radeon features
once gforce are lacking thoses futures...
But the point is, Nvidia is NOT lacking those features that are relevant for games. The only question how that will be handled by developers. So my request stand: Don't flame.

They released a DX11.0 only GPU for time to market reasons,
i guess that they have implemented 11.1 or even 11.2 on silicon
but it was still broken implementation and they were pressed by the already released 7970...

As for 11.2 it brings a lot more than tiled ressources ,
just check at MS.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/bg182880.aspx

Funny thing is that some people did tests of BF4 beta with Gforces
and compared the results to 290X , ignoring that BF4 is 11.2.
Again that is speculation.
I didn't say tiled resources is the only change in DX11.2, I said it is the most prominent feature and that is true. Let's wait and see how all turns out before further making doom&gloom statements.
 

Techhog

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,834
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With proper cooling this statement about the 290x is so wrong its not even funny. Have a look at the overclockers.net forum post.
The 290X has almost (not perfect) scaling with overclocking. Blackened has more info on it I believe. Making a statement that the 290X chokes makes me chuckle.
Yeah, but you need to spend a good amount extra for that cooling.
 

Abwx

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2011
9,146
990
126
But the point is, Nvidia is NOT lacking those features that are relevant for games. The only question how that will be handled by developers.
Of course the only DX11.2 feature that matters is the single
one that Nvidia implemented...


So my request stand: Don't flame.
Please do the same request to Nvidia who started their disgusting
4K viral marketing once they had early numbers of their competitors
soon to come offerings while branding their own product as "the most advanced GPU" , wich is plain lie and deception when looking at the specs.

Again that is speculation.
I didn't say tiled resources is the only change in DX11.2, I said it is the most prominent feature and that is true. Let's wait and see how all turns out before further making doom&gloom statements.
I m talking published specs not making wild guesses..

The only speculation i see by there consist to assume that tile ressource
is the only thing that matters in the long list published by MS.
 
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el etro

Golden Member
Jul 21, 2013
1,581
14
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DirectX and memory framebuffer is not the question. If you wait late november will be better to pick an custom R9 290X. For today, 780 Lightning or HOF is the way to GO.
 

XiandreX

Golden Member
Jan 14, 2011
1,172
16
81
Yeah, but you need to spend a good amount extra for that cooling.
Reference is $550 (more or less). A would imagine that aftermarket AIB solutions will be around 570-600 depending. If you can overclock it by a good margin that 30-50 extra doesnt seem like so much.
 

Techhog

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,834
1
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Reference is $550 (more or less). A would imagine that aftermarket AIB solutions will be around 570-600 depending. If you can overclock it by a good margin that 30-50 extra doesnt seem like so much.
So, you have to pay up to 20% extra for 5% more performance than the 780. That's really not a great deal. Nvidia won this round. I really hate it because it might be the beginning of AMD always being behind in GPUs like they are with CPUs. Hopefully they can find a way to compete on 20nm.
 

wand3r3r

Diamond Member
May 16, 2008
3,180
0
0
You pay 10% more for more than 10% performance (uber mode) reference vs reference. $50.

The 780 OC models are a better buy than the 290x reference atm.

Once the aftermarket cards hit, they will presumably increase the performance too so they can be compared then. The 290 is the wild card however.
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
You pay 10% more for more than 10% performance (uber mode) reference vs reference. $50.

The 780 OC models are a better buy than the 290x reference atm.

Once the aftermarket cards hit, they will presumably increase the performance too so they can be compared then. The 290 is the wild card however.
Anandtech says about 780 non-Ti vs 290X:

"The end result is that now 290X is the more expensive part by 10% (or $50), which coincidentally is also the 290X’s performance advantage. This puts the two cards on equal footing on the price/performance continuum with NVIDIA’s kicker – their superior build quality and cooling performance – remaining. Furthermore we were also able to confirm with NVIDIA that the metal reference cooler will still be available even after the price cut, so alongside the collection of custom designs we’ve seen the high performance reference blower will still be an option for buyers seeking a quiet blower."

"Meanwhile, as previously mentioned today’s announcement also coincides with the launch of NVIDIA’s “The Way It’s Meant to Be Played Holiday Bundle with SHIELD” promotion, which for both the GTX 780 and GTX 770 will consist of Assassins’ Creed IV, Batman: Arkham Origins, Splinter Cell: Blacklist, and the $100 SHIELD discount. So on top of NVIDIA’s price cuts they will also be offering an unusually strong bundle in direct opposition to AMD’s price premium 290X Battlefield 4 bundle."

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7465/nvidia-announces-geforce-gtx-780770-price-cuts-gtx-780-ti-launch-date

They should have also mentioned 3 vs 4GB of VRAM though that probably does not matter for most people.
 
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goobernoodles

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2005
1,817
0
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Really like how AMD bundled BF4 with a card that is out of stock everywhere on the BF4 launch date...
 

BallaTheFeared

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2010
8,115
0
71
If it's like their previous bundles, you'll get a card with your box... So you'd have to wait for delivery.
 

Ampz

Junior Member
Oct 28, 2013
20
0
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If I buy this card will there be aftermarket hs for it in the future? It runs so damn hot
 

Techhog

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,834
1
26
You pay 10% more for more than 10% performance (uber mode) reference vs reference. $50.

The 780 OC models are a better buy than the 290x reference atm.

Once the aftermarket cards hit, they will presumably increase the performance too so they can be compared then. The 290 is the wild card however.
The thing is that the 780 can overclock by more than 10% on reference, while the reference 290X will just throttle inside most cases unless you make it sound like a fleet of jets taking off. It's really no contest here, and with how bad it is I don't think we'll ever see good overclocking on air with this card.
 

Ampz

Junior Member
Oct 28, 2013
20
0
0
I bought 2 from amazon and now they're sold out, I just decided to purchase the third lol. Too late.
 

loccothan

Senior member
Mar 8, 2013
268
2
81
loccothan.blogspot.com
nV since 580 have Standard DX 11, only AMD GCN has full Spec DX 11.x or 11.1 11.2 11.3 etc. AMD is working with MS to upgrade DX for future Games and NextGen

Here ->


U have to wait for Maxwell ;-) for NextGen DX 11.x from nV or go for r290X (XFX or Sapphire Toxic for low temps)

And some Tests of R290X 1200MHz 6400GRAM -> http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=25171636&postcount=37
 
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BrightCandle

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
4,762
0
76
As I understand it most of the DX 11.1 and DX 11.2 features are actually software features in the drivers of these cards. A large part of them are targetted at DirectCompute or Windows itself rather than actual games. The games related ones Nvidia claims to have implemented.

That isn't to say I don't agree there isn't a problem because there is. A lot of games are going to be based on 11.2 due to the consoles and that does mean there is potential for missing features on Nvidia's hardware. But right now, today, we know of no games that are hampered by lack of support for DX 11.1 and 11.2. Could happen, might happen, probably will happen but its a theoretical problem today not an actual one.
 

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