7770 or 560SE?

[Gordon Freemen]

its okay but remember I had a gtx570 and gtx670 so its a massive downgrade for me. you just have to pick your settings carefully for demanding games.

Ya I know what you are saying about downgrading from a high end/mid range card to a low end card but pick your settings is right for the demanding games on the 560SE. Me I don't care much about graphics Whoring anymore like I used to but rather smooth high performance responsive 60fps gameplay 50fps + is aceptable as well in most games with some exceptions like Metro 2033,Crysis those are fine at 30 to 40fps IMO.

 

[RussianSensation]

That's the bottom line and I've been saying it from the beginning. 6850 is in another price segment. SE is $125, 7770 is $135 and 6850 is $150. Depending on retailer rebates and the markets where they are sold one can become better deal than the other but performance wise the SE and the 7770 are on the same level, in certain games NV pulls ahead in other AMD. 6850 is a better card than both hence the higher price. NV has no card against the 6850, GTX560 is on the level of the 6870.

I guess it depends on what games are being tested.

HD7770 with Cats 12.7B ~ GTX560SE, but HD7770 now costs just $105 and uses 50W+ less power. Makes no sense to get the 560SE.

As far as GTX500 vs. HD6800/6900 generation, at 1080P, it's more like this:

GTX460 1GB stock
GTX560 1GB ~ HD6850 1GB
GTX460 1GB 850mhz ~ GTX560 1GB OCed ~ GTX560Ti 1GB ~ HD6870 1GB
GTX560Ti 950mhz+ ~ HD6950 2GB
GTX560Ti 448 ~ 850mhz HD6950 2GB
GTX560Ti 448 OCed ~ GTX570 1.28GB ~ HD6970 2GB (but 6970 took 8AA and 2560x1600 easily, with GTX570 taking tessellation based games such as Civ5, Crysis 2 and Batman AC).
GTX580

GTX560 is not as fast as the 6870. Computerbase's recent testing shows that the GTX560Ti reference is just 3% faster than an HD6870 at 1080P 4AA. You guys are putting those NV Fermi cards exactly 1 class above their actual performance level.

The GTX560 SE is much slower than a GTX460 1GB, so it has 0 chance of beating an HD6850.

 

[Gordon Freemen]

It's more like this:

HD7770 ~ GTX560SE
GTX560 ~ HD6850
GTX560Ti ~ HD6870
GTX560Ti 448 ~ HD6950 2GB
GTX570 ~ HD6970
GTX580

GTX560 is not as fast as the 6870.

You are wrong mate the 560 ti is in between the performance of the 6870 and 6950 and you are one tier off on all the GPUs you listed LOL.

 

[RussianSensation]

You are wrong mate the 560 ti is in between the performance of the 6870 and 6950 and you are one tier off on all the GPUs you listed LOL.

No, you are exactly 1 tier off. I followed GTX500 vs. HD6800/6900 series religiously. Using your logic if GTX560Ti is between 6870 and 6950, that would mean GTX560Ti 448 = HD6970 and GTX570 > HD6970...umm no. NV released GTX560Ti to replace the GTX470 with a cooler running chip and GTX470 and HD6870 were roughly similar in performance. GTX560Ti is not faster than a GTX470 by more than 3-4%.

Here is a 3rd review of GTX560 Ti @ 950mhz and it still lost to an HD6950 1GB. Conclusion: " The AMP! Edition is faster in a few scenarios, but the Radeon offers higher frame rates in more games." ~ TechReport.

So let's do the math, if a 950mhz GTX560Ti couldn't beat an HD6950, that means a reference GTX560Ti would very close to an HD6870, leading by 3-4% and far away from a 6950. That's confirmed by almost every review under the sun.

Here is a 4th Review if you'd like testing 1680x1050, 1920x1200, 2560x1600 Performance-Index to make the average even more consistent: http://ht4u.net/reviews/2011/msi_n560_gtx_ti_hawx_test/index31.php

GTX460 1GB = 100%
HD6850 1GB = 112%
GTX560 1GB = 117%
GTX560 Ti = 132%
HD6870 = 133%
GTX560Ti 950mhz Hawk = 145%
HD6950 1GB/2GB = 152-154%
GTX570 = 165%
HD6970 = 172%
GTX580 = 193%

Also, HD6850 can be overclocked to HD6870 speeds with ease at which point GTX560SE has no chance of touching it since it's massively crippled against a GTX460 1GB, which itself is slower than an HD6850.

So far I linked 4 separate reviews that all support my information. Until you find a recent review that disproves it, you are just stating an opinion.

And in every single one of those tiers, AMD cards were more power efficient too.

 

[Gordon Freemen]

No you are 1 tier off.

I linked at least 2 separate reviews (TechReport and Computerbase) supporting my information. Until you find a recent review that disproves it, you are just stating an opinion.

I followed GTX500 vs. HD6800/6900 series religiously. Using your logic if GTX560Ti is between 5870 and 6950, that would mean GTX560Ti 448 = HD6970 and GTX570 > HD6970...umm no.

Also, HD6850 can be overclocked to HD6870 speeds with ease at which point GTX560SE has no chance of touching it since it's massively crippled against a GTX460 1GB, which itself is slower than an HD6850.

The best way to group these cards in respect to all current gen cards available today "without Splitting hairs" would have to be like this -

Group 1 low end
HD7770 ~ GTX560SE ~ 6850

Group 2 lower mid range
GTX560 ~ 6870 ~ 560ti

Group 3 mid range
HD6950 2GB ~ 560ti 448 ~ 6970 ~ GTX570

Entry level high end
GTX580 ~ Last Gen Fermi king of all cards.

 

[Crap Daddy]

GTX560 vs 6870:

GTX560Ti vs. 6870 vs. 6950

You messed up every comparison. We started from saying that more or less the 560SE is on par with the 7770 while using more power and you ended by saying that the 6870 is better than the 560Ti. The 560 SE vs. 7770:

and the 560SE (slightly higher clocked model) vs. GTX460+ (slightly higher clocked model):

For me this chapter is closed.

 

[Arkadrel]

title of thread 7770 or 560SE:

both of these cards i can get for 119 for my budget gaming build which one would you recomend?

so its a A) or B) type question.

Its gone overboard.

@pez1975
The 7770 is faster and uses less power htan the 560SE and is usually cheaper, its a no brainer. Get that instead of the 560se.

/thread.

 

[toyota]

title of thread 7770 or 560SE:

so its a A) or B) type question.

Its gone overboard.

@pez1975
The 7770 is faster and uses less power htan the 560SE and is usually cheaper, its a no brainer. Get that instead of the 560se.

/thread.

NO the 7770 is NOT faster and that has already been proven. heck the benchmark is even literally right in front of you. that being said pretty much everyone, including myself, has said to get the 7770.

 

[Arkadrel]

@Toyota

Right in front of me? where? proven where?
Random chart posted by Gordon Freeman, that looks like he made it himself in MS paint?
That just says "performance relative to" bla bla, no source of where its from, how the results are gotten or from what?
And the 560SE is 1% faster in his chart? 1% really?

Crap Daddy shows the 560 >>>> TI <<<< , not a 560 or a 560SE.
NO one has posted ANY benchmark charts with a 560SE in it (its the slowest version of a 560).

In anycase the 7770 and 560SE are within a few % of each other in performance, so meh.... its a wash anyways.
And it still doesnt change the answear, everyone is saying to get the 7770, because much better power usage/noise ect.

 

[toyota]

@Toyota

Right in front of me? where?
Random chart posted by Gordon Freeman, that looks like he made it himself in MS paint?
That just says "performance relative to" bla bla, no source of where its from, how the results are gotten or from what?

Crap Daddy shows the 560 >>>> TI <<<< , not a 560 or a 560SE.
NO one has posted ANY benchmark charts with a 560SE in it (its the slowest version of a 560).

lol, its right there in front of your face and was posted by Crap Daddy and then you posted right after him. its his third image in his post. and I linked to it earlier myself.

 

[Arkadrel]

its right there in front of your face and was posted by Crap Daddy and then you posted right after him. its his third image in his post.

I only see 2 images in his post.... lmao.. maybe its hosted on a russion server/chinese that is blocked by our firewall or something but I only see 2 images in his post.

Which is why was confused.... until I read you saying the "3rd" picture, when I only see two.
That could explain it.

 

[toyota]

I only see 2 images in his post.... lmao.. maybe its hosted on a russion server/chinese that is blocked by our firewall or something but I only see 2 images in his post.

Which is why was confused.... until I read you saying the "3rd" picture, when I only see two.
That could explain it.

well yeah that explains why you don't see it.

 

[lehtv]

Here's a chinese review of GTX 560 SE, pitted against 7770: http://www.expreview.com/18741-5.html

It shows 560 SE leads by 8.42% in their benchmark suite.

 

[toyota]

Here's a chinese review of GTX 560 SE, pitted against 7770: http://www.expreview.com/18741-5.html

It shows 560 SE leads by 8.42% in their benchmark suite.

lol, yes that is what I linked to earlier and what was posted by Crap Daddy. the 560 SE does have a massive lead in BF 3 which is important to many people though. other than that, the 7770 is certainly the better choice.

 

[Arkadrel]

@LehTV

for some reason I can load that chinese site, you linked and;

1) that 560SE they used is clocked at 801mhz (while the 560SE's on newegg are like 750mhz) (Factory OC 560SE vs stock 7770)

2) they factored a game like street fighter 4 into it, where its a question of 200+ fps, and theres a big differnce in that game
(which wouldnt matter to a person playing the game, but matters to the avg score).
(poor review / benchmarking avg results because of things like this)

3) this is from 6months ago, where the 560SE had matured drivers for games, and the 7770 was just out.
Newer drivers probably fixed performance for some games, which in result *could* make the 7770 come out faster than it does in this review.


I wonder if a factory overclocked 7770 would beat out the 801mhz version of this 560SE though, my guess is it probably would.

***edit:
Point is I believe the 7770, today with newest drivers (for both cards) and both being stock reference designs (for both),
the 7770 would be faster than the 560SE is.

 

[toyota]

@LehTV

for some reason I can load that chinese site, you linked and;

1) that 560SE they used is clocked at 801mhz (while the 560SE's on newegg are like 750mhz)

2) they factored a game like street fighter 4 into it, where its a question of 200+ fps, and theres a big differnce in that game
(which wouldnt matter to a person playing the game, but matters to the avg score).
(poor review / benchmarking avg results because of things like this)

3) this is from 6months ago, where the 560SE had matured drivers for games, and the 7770 was just out.
Newer drivers probably fixed performance for some games, which in result *could* make the 7770 come out faster than it does in this review.

That said yeah... it does look like the 560SE is abit faster than the 7770.
I wonder if a factory overclocked 7770 would beat out the 801mhz version of this 560SE though, my guess is it probably would.

reference 560se is 776( at least it is for EVGA) so that one tested there is only 25mhz higher. they even tell you to expect a 6-7% lead for the reference 560se instead of the 8% lead in that test. again if BF3 is important than the 560 SE might be worth it.

 

[Arkadrel]

Okay but what about Matured drivers for the 560SE
compaired to newly released card/new architecture early drivers?

I wouldnt doubt a 7770 today is 5% faster than it was when it was released, alone based on longer time to work out kinks in new architecture / drivers.

25mhz?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_500_Series

Reference design is 746mhz. So a 801mhz version is a 55mhz Factory OC (still tiny though) of around ~7%.

Again, Im serious, I think reference vs refernce design, with newest drivers for both, the 7770 comes out on top.

 

[toyota]

Okay but what about Matured drivers for the 560SE
compaired to newly released card/new architecture early drivers?

I wouldnt doubt a 7770 today is 5% faster than it was when it was released, alone based on longer time to work out kinks in new architecture / drivers.

25mhz?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_500_Series

Reference design is 746mhz. So a 801mhz version is a 55mhz Factory OC (still tiny though) of around ~7%.

Again, Im serious, I think reference vs refernce design, with newest drivers for both, the 7770 comes out on top.

well my card is 776 and its not listed as an overclocked version. it seems the clocks can be all over the place though depending on who made it.

none of that really matters as again the 7770 card is what is being recommend especially if BF 3 is not important.

 

[coffeejunkee]

Okay but what about Matured drivers for the 560SE
compaired to newly released card/new architecture early drivers?

I wouldnt doubt a 7770 today is 5% faster than it was when it was released, alone based on longer time to work out kinks in new architecture / drivers.

25mhz?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_500_Series

Reference design is 746mhz. So a 801mhz version is a 55mhz Factory OC (still tiny though) of around ~7%.

Again, Im serious, I think reference vs refernce design, with newest drivers for both, the 7770 comes out on top.

Seems Wiki is wrong too, according to Nvidia themselves stock clock for 560se is actually 736Mhz: http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-560/specifications

 

[toyota]

Seems Wiki is wrong too, according to Nvidia themselves stock clock for 560se is actually 736Mhz: http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-560/specifications

yeah but Nvidia got their own memory bandwidth numbers wrong. they have it listed at 184 when its really half of that.

 

[coffeejunkee]

Yeah I see now..who to trust these days? But it doesn't matter that much, it's probably very hard to find a reference clock 560se anyway. And even if it's a bit faster I'd choose the 7770 anyway for lower power use in general and zerocore technology specifically.

 

[RussianSensation]

GTX560 vs 6870:

Half of your links didn't work. Also, you linked All Resolutions? How is that even relevant? Who games at 1280x800? Talk about skewing the numbers.

Toyota's link was the most helpful. It showed an 801mhz GTX560SE being 8% faster overall than a 1000mhz HD7770. Considering GTX560SE costs $130 + shipping cost on Newegg vs. $105 for HD7770Ghz, you'd have to be a very loyal NV user to keep recommending the 560SE. That 7770GE card even comes with a free Dirt Showdown that can be resold.

For $135, Newegg even has the HD6850 Sapphire with Dirt 3 for free or even a real EVGA GTX560 for $130, or the MSI GTX560 for $130.

No matter how you slice it, at current prices the 560SE makes no sense against the much cheaper 7770 or the faster 6850/560 cards. Whether the 560SE was a better buy 2-3 months ago doesn't really factor into helping the OP.

 

[Crap Daddy]

Half of your links didn't work. Also, you linked All Resolutions? How is that even relevant? Who games at 1280x800? Talk about skewing the numbers.

Toyota's link was the most helpful. It showed an 801mhz GTX560SE being 8% faster overall than a 1000mhz HD7770. Considering GTX560SE costs $130 + shipping cost on Newegg vs. $105 for HD7770Ghz, you'd have to be a very loyal NV user to keep recommending the 560SE. That 7770GE card even comes with a free Dirt Showdown that can be resold.

For $135, Newegg even has the HD6850 Sapphire with Dirt 3 for free or even a real EVGA GTX560 for $130, or the MSI GTX560 for $130.

No matter how you slice it, at current prices the 560SE makes no sense against the much cheaper 7770 or the faster 6850/560 cards. Whether the 560SE was a better buy 2-3 months ago doesn't really factor into helping the OP.

Have you ever read what I've been saying all the time: AT THE SAME PRICE POINT THE 7770 IS A BETTER CHOICE.

Have you read that where I bought the card: THE 560 SE WAS 25% CHEAPER THAN THE 7770

Have you seen that I linked the same chart as Toyota?

As for the other comparisons you made and which had nothing to do with this thread (like the 6870 being better than the 560Ti) and for not liking my link with all resolutions I'll link you the 1900x1200:

 

[Gordon Freemen]

@Toyota

Right in front of me? where? proven where?
Random chart posted by Gordon Freeman, that looks like he made it himself in MS paint?
That just says "performance relative to" bla bla, no source of where its from, how the results are gotten or from what?
And the 560SE is 1% faster in his chart? 1% really?

Crap Daddy shows the 560 >>>> TI <<<< , not a 560 or a 560SE.
NO one has posted ANY benchmark charts with a 560SE in it (its the slowest version of a 560).

In anycase the 7770 and 560SE are within a few % of each other in performance, so meh.... its a wash anyways.
And it still doesnt change the answear, everyone is saying to get the 7770, because much better power usage/noise ect.

Actually a 560SE is not even a true 560 class GPU it is a warmed over re badged higher clocked 196bit GTX 460SE . So in effect the 560SE is the fastest coolest running GTX 460SE ever made. Also you say that the 7770 has " much better power usage/noise" well the power usage yes the 7770 has much better power efficiency which it should being the 560SE is based off an 3 generation old "GF 104" architecture so that's to be expected. But the noise level not even close for my 560SE is virtually silent even under max load with fan on auto it never goes higher than 35% fan speed @ 71c

 

[Gordon Freemen]

both of these cards i can get for 119 for my budget gaming build which one would you recomend?

http://forum.overclock3d.net/showthread.php?p=540948
If you are a WoW player then the nvidia card is the only way to go.