775 system: Upgrade or total refit?

[blacktankofhopelessness]

Ok, I'm well overdue for an upgrade I think.

About 8 months ago I bought a GTX 460 for my rig to be able to play games such as Shogun 2: Total War, Deus Ex: HR and the upcoming Elder Scrolls Skyrim. However, while the graphics card seems decent enough, it seems to be severely limited by my CPU.

This is my rig currently:

ASUS P5Q SE2
Intel Core2duo E4500 (@ 3.0 Ghz)
3 GB PC6400 RAM
MSI GTX 460 1GB (@ 810 Mhz Core)
Antec Sonata III w 500W PS
Windows 7 64-bit

Now, since I believe this system is very limited by my CPU my thinking is that I should get maybe a Q8400 or a Q9650 (although the cheapest I can find here is twice the cost of a Q8400). Plus, I know I need at least another 1GB of RAM - will probably get a matched pair of 1GB and replace one of the older ones.

Is this a bad idea in your book? Should I go for a complete upgrade instead towards an i5 or i7 and how much would the difference in cost be?

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1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.

Gaming. Right now it's Deus Ex: HR. I might go back to Shogun 2 as well. I want to be able to play Skyrim at high settings.

2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread

Around 300-350 Euros.

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.

Sweden.

4. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc.

Intel these days.

5. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.

My video card, the GTX 460. If possible, my motherboard and RAM.

6. IF YOU have searched and/or read similar threads.

Yes. It looks as if a total overhaul is necessary, but I'm open to other suggestions.

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.

Preferably default.

8. What resolution YOU plan on gaming with.

1650x1050 or 1920x1080

9. WHEN do you plan to build it?

Within three months.

 

[Puppies04]

You could argue this either way, sure a Q8400 will get rid of your CPU bottleneck for now but a 2500k will last you a hell of a lot longer before you get bottlenecked. Spend money now or later? Up to you really.

P.s Do you plan on running skyrim at 1920 * 1080 will all the bells and whistles turned on because you might be getting close to maxing out that gtx460 at that point.

 

[lehtv]

The CPU is indeed holding you back. No point upgrading to a faster LGA775 CPU, sandy bridge is infinitely better for the money, even though it does require new mobo+RAM. This is a non-issue though as you can just sell your current mobo+CPU+RAM in a bundle for a decent price.

The way I see it you have two choices:

1) i5-2500K + custom cooler + P67 motherboard + 4GB or 8GB RAM. This requires you to raise your budget by ~100 eur.

2) i5-2400 or i5-2500 boxed + H67 motherboard + 4GB or 8GB RAM. This allows you to stay within budget.

Since 2400/2500 isn't overclockable, a P67 motherboard isn't needed. H67 can be had for much cheaper (especially mATX), and there would be little need for a third party cooler (I've heard the stock SB cooler is alright).

As for the graphics card, GTX460 is still a pretty good card. It will run any game at 1080p and lowered settings, maybe not the best framerates but perfectly playable. When you've got more spare cash, you can upgrade to 28nm graphics and the Sandy Bridge will not hold you back in that regard.

 

[blacktankofhopelessness]

Thank you both. Excellent advice.

About the resolution - no, 1080p isn't a must by any means. Since I'm at 1280x1024 right now (crappy 17" LCD) I think any increase would make me happy.

I'll have to think about this long and hard and see if I can't scrape together enough cash for a complete overhaul instead.

 

[mfenn]

I'd recommend going the new CPU/mobo/RAM route as well. Even an i3 + H61 mobo + 4GB DDR3 would be a huge upgrade from what you have now. That should only run $200 or so (US funds, don't know Euro pricing).

 

[blacktankofhopelessness]

Nice. Thanks.

By the way, what are the noise levels like with the stock cooler for the 2500k? I always build silent rigs, even when I OC.

 

[Zap]

By the way, what are the noise levels like with the stock cooler for the 2500k? I always build silent rigs, even when I OC.

If you want to use the stock cooler and have it quiet, don't overclock. Enable a fan profile in BIOS/UEFI. Profit.

 

[Puppies04]

You can still overclock to somewhere around 4ghz on the stock cooler and remain relativly quiet, depends what airflow you have through your case.

 

[mfenn]

Nice. Thanks.

By the way, what are the noise levels like with the stock cooler for the 2500k? I always build silent rigs, even when I OC.

Silent or just quiet? I'd be interesting to see a truly silent overclocked 2500K.

 

[blacktankofhopelessness]

Right. "quiet" it is then. A silent rig would require a completely fan-less solution anyway.

I have a very quiet setup as it is with a huge heatsink for my E4500 and a fan running at it lowest setting. The only thing messing it up is My PSU which goes ballistic when gaming. My GTX 460 is very quiet.

So, any advice on the PSU front? As quiet as possible please, but not too expensive.

 

[Fayd]

Right. "quiet" it is then. A silent rig would require a completely fan-less solution anyway.

I have a very quiet setup as it is with a huge heatsink for my E4500 and a fan running at it lowest setting. The only thing messing it up is My PSU which goes ballistic when gaming. My GTX 460 is very quiet.

So, any advice on the PSU front? As quiet as possible please, but not too expensive.

nope, solid electronic circuits still make noise.

silent is just an impossibility. imperceptibly quiet is achievable, though.

 

[blacktankofhopelessness]

nope, solid electronic circuits still make noise.

silent is just an impossibility. imperceptibly quiet is achievable, though.

Ok, a bit of a splitting-hairs discussion this. Not really what I was after at all.

Imperceptible noise equals silent in my book.

 

[blacktankofhopelessness]

So, about the PSU and CPU cooler - what should I go with? I'm looking at this option for the PSU at the moment:

http://www.webhallen.com/hardvara/12...husiast_series

...but I have no idea on the CPU cooler front. I see that a lot of people are recommending the Coolermaster Hyper 212+ and some go for Arctic Cooling's Freezer 13 Pro. Both are relatively cheap here in Sweden, but I'm concerned about the noise level.

If it helps, I'd rather have average temps (if and when overclocking) and very low noise rather than the other way around. And I'm not looking to spend a whole heap of cash on the cooler.

 

[lehtv]

Corsair TX series is decent. I don't know if they're imperceptibly quiet, but they're certainly not loud.

Just FYI: In theory, silence relates directly to PSU efficiency, because more efficient PSUs produce less waste heat, and therefore require lower fan RPM to operate stably. This is especially true in systems that consume a lot of power. In low wattage systems and power supplies, even entry level units can be very silent.

Your system won't use more than around 250W-300W at load. You don't need a 650W PSU. In fact, efficiency may suffer with a 650W PSU as then you'd always be below 50% of the rated wattage. PSUs are most efficient at around 50%.

Also what is your current PSU?

EDIT: regarding the cooler... If I were you I'd just buy the boxed CPU and test the cooler. If noise levels and temps are good enough, then you don't need a new cooler.

 

[blacktankofhopelessness]

The "imperceptibly quiet" part isn't a requirement on my part, it was in reference to a previous post and the rather pointless discussion on semantics that came up. Oh well...

I have the standard PSU that comes with the Antec Sonata III, the Earthwatts 500W, and it gets really noisy when I play games or otherwise stress my rig. I really want a more quiet PSU. I had not thought about your point on efficiency.

How about something like this:

http://www.webhallen.com/hardvara/13..._2_series_500w

Or this: http://www.webhallen.com/hardvara/13...ply_cx_v2_500w

 

[Zap]

Silent or just quiet? I'd be interesting to see a truly silent overclocked 2500K.

Well, if we go by "imperceptibly quiet" (see below) then CHALLENGE ACCEPTED. You didn't specify how high of an overclock. Actually, would be pretty easy. Use a Scythe Ninja 3 heatsink w/o the fan. Use a random tower case that uses a top mount PSU, and with all fans removed. Use an SSD. Use a PSU with a known quiet fan. No graphics card. OC the CPU a small amount while using a negative voltage offset (whatever you can get away with). Done!

FWIW I used to OC dual core CPUs using the Ninja heatsink cooled only by undervolted case fans (probably under 800RPM). I did an A64 x2 3800+ @2.4GHz that way as well as a C2D E6750@3.2GHz.

silent is just an impossibility. imperceptibly quiet is achievable, though.

That's why I usually say "quiet" instead of "silent."

Imperceptible noise equals silent in my book.

Yup. It's the old "if a tree falls in a forest..."

Just FYI: In theory, silence relates directly to PSU efficiency, because more efficient PSUs produce less waste heat, and therefore require lower fan RPM to operate stably.

I semi-disagree with that statement. BITD I was really impressed with the original Antec TruePower series PSUs. Those used 80/92mm fans and were probably around 65-70% efficient, but they were super quiet. Heck, they would be quiet even compared to current 80Plus PSUs with 120mm fans.

 

[mfenn]

Zap, I'm thinking that if a stock GTX 460 is the bar for quiet, we don't have to try quite that hard.

OP, is the budget now stretching to accommodate the PSU or are we sticking to the same price? Also, it would be helpful to post a link to a webshop that you like to use so that we can get a feel for prices. Swedish language is OK.

 

[blacktankofhopelessness]

Zap, I'm thinking that if a stock GTX 460 is the bar for quiet, we don't have to try quite that hard.

OP, is the budget now stretching to accommodate the PSU or are we sticking to the same price? Also, it would be helpful to post a link to a webshop that you like to use so that we can get a feel for prices. Swedish language is OK.

The MSI GTX460 Talon Attack I have comes with a much more quiet fan solution than your average card. So there!

As for links I have posted several already in previous posts. They all go to Webhallen, a swedish retailer with competitive prices. Well, at least by swedish standards...

Yes, I'm willing to go higher in terms of budget. The 2500k, a P67 board (please help here!) and 4gb of ddr3 will max my previous budget of 3 000 kr (~300 EUR), and then I'm hoping not to spend more than an additional 1 000 kr on a quiet PSU and CPU cooler.

Thanks for the help guys. I really appreciate it!

 

[mfenn]

OK, here's what I would recommend:
i5 2500 1690 kr
ASUS P8H67-M 869 kr
Kingston DDR3 1333 8GB 458 kr
FSP Aurum Gold 500W 749 kr - pricy but "silent" :awe: according to tPU
Scythe Ninja 3 435 kr - very low turbulence HSF
Total: 4201 kr.

I kept to non-overclockable parts because you indicated your preference to keep the speeds at default. I also blew the budget a bit, but you could get it back under 4000 by going down to 4GB of RAM and/or getting the 400W version of the PSU.

 

[blacktankofhopelessness]

Thank you very much for your suggestions mfenn! I've been trying to figure out a good config by reading related forum posts and articles here and there, but it's hard to get à decent overview and actually make a decision.

Please, if you can, I would love it if you (or someone else?) could come up with an alternative for an overclocker's system based on the 2500k. The hardest part for me is figuring out which mobo I should go with. I'm willing to go as high as 4 500. Would a cheaper PSU be a viable option if I still want to stay relatively quiet? If so, that could offset the increased cost of CPU and mobo?

Here's a cheaper RAM option as well, at a higher speed: http://www.webhallen.com/hardvara/12...-12800_1600mhz

 

[blacktankofhopelessness]

How about this:

ASUS P8P67 b3 1 085 kr
i5 2500K 1 790 kr
Corsair XMS3 8GB DDR3 1333 mhz 379 kr
FSP Aurum Gold 500W 749 kr
Scythe Ninja 3 435 kr

Total: 4 438 kr

This should be an improved setup, compared to your suggestion mfenn, for just a 230 kr increase in price, am I right?

If I go the 4 GB route - Corsair XMS3 4GB DDR3 1600 mhz, the total drops to 4 298 kr.

Any thoughts? I'm particularly interested to know your input on the P8P67 B3 in terms of overclocking.

EDIT: Oh, that Aurum PSU doesn't seem to be available in any of their shops (online or otherwise) atm. Maybe this could work: Antec High Current Gamer 520W 599 kr

That would bring my total to 4 148 kr while still being able to overclock if I feel the need for it.

 

[lehtv]

P8P67 is an alright board, popular because it's relatively inexpensive for a P67 board. And Asus mobos are always popular. Bit-tech.net was able to OC 2500K to 4.9GHz on a P8P67 http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/motherboards/2011/01/12/asus-p8p67-review/2

I'd go for 8GB memory as memory is cheap. An overclocked 2500K and 8GB mem will have you set platform-wise for a long time to come. With no overclock and 4GB, the need to upgrade would come sooner, and who knows - memory might be more expensive down the road.

You should be fine with that PSU. Another option in the budget section: Corsair CX500V2 500kr or CX600V2 600kr

 

[zerogear]

Memory always gets expensive down the road when DDR3 transitions to DDR4 (or whatever comes next).

 

[lehtv]

DDR4 is expected to hit the market in 2012, so DDR3 prices will probably climb sooner rather than later

 

[blacktankofhopelessness]

Ok, good to know about the memory thingy. I think I'll get 8 GB.

I considered the CX 500 V2 but decided against it after not being able to find any decent reviews for the CX series. The Antec PSU seems to come highly recommended:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2179494&highlight=antec+gamer
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Antec/HCG-620/8.html

Plus the fact that the Antec PSU is supposed to be based on this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-094-_-Product leads me to believe it should suit my needs.