767Mhz Celeron - Upgrade to 1.4GHz socket 370 a big boost?

[uberloungedotcom]

For all of you that have systems just laying around your office or home, you can probably relate to this.

I snagged one of the old HP systems that I had in my office 6 years a go or so and am using it for a little more then an Internet kiosk so I need to upgrade it and at min. cost as possible.

Right now it is some HP mini Desktop:
667 Mhz upgraded to 767MHZ Celeron Socket 370 (128mb cache?)
256MB PC100 x 1
128MB PC100 x 1
on board graphics
16x cd-rom
Operating System: Ubuntu 6.10 Edgy Eft

Obviously, by looking at these specs you can tell that this pig is lagging even though your not using it.

I was on pricewatch the other day and noticed that I could upgrade the celeron to the fastest socket 370 which is 1.4GHz(please let me know before I order that this is the fastest socket 370 upgrade) and double my cache size from 128 to 256mb for like $20-$25 shipped. Anyone else know if the 1.4GHz is the fastest socket 370 upgrade and if this will make a huge difference? I think it should since I am doubling the onboard cache but I wasn't sure if the video card is holding me back too.

Any suggestions for additional cheap upgrades for such of a pig linux box?

Thanks!

 

[Harvey]

You may want to check HP's site for the specs for your model. It may not accept a faster CPU, or it may require a BIOS update.

What do you want to run on it? If you want to run anything other than Linux or DOS, you'll be better off spending your money on a different setup. If you're sticking with the same software, you should see some improvement with more speed.

 

[happy medium]

Whats the model number?

 

[myocardia]

You do realize, don't you, that there were two different types of PIII's (your Celeron is a PIII), not one? And although they both had 370 pins, they aren't compatible? You'll likely ruin either the processor, or the motherboard, or both, if you try using the wrong type in your motherboard. Find out before ordering whether your motherboard/cpu are Tualatin, or Coppermine.

IIRC, the Coppermines are/were PPGA, and the Tualatins were the "other" Socket 370, which uses a different wiring scheme. Note, though, that there were adaptors (at least there were back then, when these processors were new) that would allow using the Tualatin with a Coppermine motherboard.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: myocardia
Note, though, that there were adaptors (at least there were back then, when these processors were new) that would allow using the Tualatin with a Coppermine motherboard.

If I remember correctly, they're relatively expensive. This system is already worth its weight in charity donations. If he has little to spend for a low power task, $350 buys this Compaq Presario SR2010NX with a Sempron 3400+ or this Compaq Presario SR2150NX with a 3.3 GHz Celeron D. Each comes with:

• Windows XP Home
• 512 MB PC4200 DDR2 RAM
• 120 GB SATA drive
• CD-RW/DVD-ROM

It's not a machine most of us would buy as a serious systtem, but if all he needs is a Linux box, he could sell off the Windows to pay for part of the machine and rock.

 

[uberloungedotcom]

WOW... my bad, this bloody thing is actually an eMachine. I have this and the HP that are both torn apart so I apologize.

The date of the machine for the bios at least is 1999. I would have to reboot to find out the exact bios version. With that said, can't I run and Socket 370 Celeron in it? I am pretty sure it is the 128k cache chip. So in theory... if the bios is able to accept up to 1.4(I assume it would since the bios generally has a lot of room to raise it for upgrades). Someone mentioned the PIII being socket 370. I completely even forgot about the PIII, WOW... I'm an idiot... lol. Anyways, in most cases, it is safe to say that a pentium III 1.4GHZ 512MB socket 370 would work in this system correct?

 

[3chordcharlie]

There were, and are, no tualatins under 1ghz. In fact, early S370 celerons were also different from the coppermine chips, but the 667 or 766 mhz parts used the same boards as coppermine P3s.

It's highly unlikely that HP shipped a 667mhz system with a tualatin-compatible motherboard, because that speed of chip was long-discontinued before tualatin went to market.

Your best compatible chip is probably either an 800mhz or 1.0ghz 100fsb coppermine P3, but you should be able to confirm this with a little research on your specific board.

Whether an adapter will let you run tualatin parts or not, I don't know, but consider the cost of this vs the cost of an off-lease 2.4ish P4 (i.e. 'dirt cheap') before you get too far in to back out.

 

[Arkaign]

That thing will *NOT* work with the newer Socket 370 procs, you are probably stuck with 1.0Ghz Coppermine P3 as the limit. For cheap upgrade, get a microatx AMD Socket A mobo, Athlon XP proc .. you can find a mobo that will fit and use your existing Sdram. K7SEM is one such candidate. An Athlon XP 1800+ would do nicely.

As to why the Tualatin procs won't work in your board, they ONLY work in later Via and 815EPT chipset-based boards, and they are rare. When Tualatin chips came along, Intel was already pimping P4 and Rdram, so the production window was small.

 

[uberloungedotcom]

I believe that I have like 30+ of these adapters laying around. I know for a fact that it is socket 370. So go PIII then I take it. I am a bit of a risk taker and $40 for a chip isn't all too bad. The system is a hog so I won't cry if it fries.... lol.

Harvy, thanks for directing my attention to that but it is a tad expensive for what it is. And I don't like how windows XP is including with the system because obviously that's probably why the price is so high.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: uberloungedotcom
WOW... my bad, this bloody thing is actually an eMachine. I have this and the HP that are both torn apart so I apologize.

The date of the machine for the bios at least is 1999. I would have to reboot to find out the exact bios version.

Look on the back for the exact model number, and search for it on Gateway's site. They should have a support link to info about what parts it can use and maybe some driver and BIOS updates.

Harvy, thanks for directing my attention to that but it is a tad expensive for what it is. And I don't like how windows XP is including with the system because obviously that's probably why the price is so high.

What kind of budget do you have in mind? The links were just to make the point that, depending on what it costs to update your Gateway, it won't take much to make it more worthwhile to build a new setup.

The ad was from Fry's. If you don't live near one, you can still build a low power box for very little.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: uberloungedotcom
I believe that I have like 30+ of these adapters laying around. I know for a fact that it is socket 370. So go PIII then I take it. I am a bit of a risk taker and $40 for a chip isn't all too bad. The system is a hog so I won't cry if it fries.... lol.

Harvy, thanks for directing my attention to that but it is a tad expensive for what it is. And I don't like how windows XP is including with the system because obviously that's probably why the price is so high.

Don't do it Your board won't work with Tualatin, and those adapters are basically worthless unless you have a Decent 815 chipset board to begin with.

Here :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ECS-K7SEM-MOTHERBOA...6QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Mobo + Athlon 2000+ + Heastink/Fan

And it will take your current Sdram

$59, and it will blow the doors off of even the P3 1400!

 

[uberloungedotcom]

Basically, what we have happening here is what usually happens to me... i want to spend $25 because I could care less about this thing but then "3chordcharlie" made a great point but is somewhat irrelevant because I only wanted to spend $25 shipped... but anyways, what 3chordcharlie said was not to forget about the P4 2.4... I remember seeing that and the 2.8 for $50-60 shipped... so now it makes sooo much more sense now for me to get a new P4, cheap mobo with onboard everything(nforce) and be done with it.
Oh and DDR memory is not a problem, I have about 100+ sticks laying around of all brands and sizes.

So, what cheap p4 solution should I do. I noticed there are the 478's and the D something somethings around the same price. I have tons of P4 478 cpu coolers, but none for the other P4 sockets so I am wiling to get a retail non-478 chip since prices are so low to take care of the cpu cooler issue. Chip + Mobo target $100.

 

[happy medium]

I'd get this board......for 55.00$ shipped

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-MSI-865GM-APG-8...07QQcategoryZ80161QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And this cpu ....for about 40.00$ when over

http://cgi.ebay.com/Intel-Pentium-4-2-5...3QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This will be 3 times faster then what you have now. Just add your 2700ddr ram and 478 heatsink.

 

[uberloungedotcom]

NIce man, thanks. I just found a Pentium 4 2.8Ghz 800FSB laying around here with Swiftech P4 478 CPU cooler and Arctic Silver 5+. I also have another Dell server laying around with a 2.8 800FSB laying around. I am going to take each chip and put them in that motherboard you showed me or something maybe $20-30 more due due to the P4 finds and slap them together. Does that Intel chipset provide OpenGL? I need Open GL because I am going to run Beryl and AIXLG or XGL on Sabayon and Unbuntu.

On a much better note, I am actually building a rig for that I will be hooking up to (4) 20.1 LCDs(already have them) and will be running Sabayon Linux and Windows Vista Ultra so if you have any ideas of a rig I could do that isn't crazy in price, please give me your input. I need to be able to download, surf, move big files, photoshop, convert media types and all similar things constantly. I need to go dual-core with this one. Intel or AMD? The budget is $750-$800 because I have plenty of 250GB 7200RPM WD SATA drives laying around, got the DVD burners, NIC, CASES. Current video card is BFG nVidia Geforce 4 6200 OC 256MB PCI card.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: myocardia
IIRC, the Coppermines are/were PPGA, and the Tualatins were the "other" Socket 370,

PPGA were the "black" socket 370 Celerons with the big metal slug in the middle, 533MHz and below. There were no equivalent socket 370 Pentium III chips to these. 66MHz FSB, 128k cache. Don't remember core name. Interestingly these unofficially supported SMP.

FCPGA were the "green" socket 370 Celerons with the tiny core in the middle, starting at 533MHz (overlapping older one, new one called "533A") and ending at around 1100MHz. These had Pentium III equivalents. The Pentium III were made at 100 and 133MHz FSB, with 256k cache. The Celerons were 66MHz FSB up to 766MHz, then 800MHz and up were 100MHz FSB, all with 128k cache. Interestingly, the original Xbox has kind of a hybrid of these chips, running at 800MHz with 133MHz FSB like a Pentium III, but with only 128k cache like a Celeron. These were the Coppermine cores. All the Pentium III chips supported SMP, but the Celerons were somehow fixed so they didn't.

FCPGA2 were the "green" socket 370 Celerons, back with the big metal slug look, but now an IHS - Integrated Heat Spreader over what would otherwise look like the FCPGA cores. These had 256k cache on a 100MHz FSB from 1-1.4GHz. The overlapping chips were the 1.0A and 1.1A. The Pentium III chips went all 133MHz FSB, with both 256k and 512k cache "server" versions (not on all speed grades though). Only the "server" 512k cache chips supported SMP.

There were boards that only took the PPGA chips. IIRC any board that took the FCPGA chip can take PPGA. Boards that took the FCPGA2 can take FCPGA, but not PPGA. Adaptors were available, but I don't recommend them because sometimes these strained these older designs, which would eventually cause the capacitors around the CPU to fail.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: uberloungedotcom
So, what cheap p4 solution should I do.
...
Chip + Mobo target $100.

For that price range, just pick up that $40.99 S939 MSI OEM mobo from geeks.com, and then pick up a cheap A64 off of NewEgg. I picked up an A64 4000+ for $80, but you can get cheaper chips around $56. Only problem there is that you'de need PCI-E video.