Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
- 17,948
- 31
- 91
umbrella39
Lifer
- Jun 11, 2004
- 13,816
- 1,126
- 126
Why don't people go all bonkers over, let's say, the offensive linemen in the NFL who is using steroids? It is because they have no real stats to tarnish? It goes without saying that there is steroid use in other sports as well. Why are only baseball players held up under such scrutiny? Why is the guy who uses steroids to bulk himself to prevent that 390 pound guy in front of him from crushing his QB any different than the guy who uses them to hit a ball farther?
if your going to put a * on the HR record then you have to put an * on all records set in the last 15 years of the so called Steroid Era...
I know I'm not a sports fan but I have a very, very hard time caring about all this steroid nonsense. Obviously the fans will care, but it needs to stop there. It's just a game. We don't need Congressional hearings and subpoenaed testimony.
And to fit in with this thread yes Bonds sounds like an asshole, and probably took steroids.
BFD.
Viper GTS
And to fit in with this thread yes Bonds sounds like an asshole, and probably took steroids.
BFD.
Viper GTS
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
- Feb 10, 2000
- 30,029
- 67
- 91
Baseball holds a distinctive place in the hearts of Americans, and its records (particularly this one, arguably the biggest individual record of all) are held with great regard. Hank Aaron is also one of the most beloved living sports figures, and Bonds one of the least-loved. By contrast, there really are no individual records for offensive linemen, and certainly none that are widely known outside the sport.
Actually, it'll up his batting average because it allows him to hit the ball harder.
Just think about how many base hits are a result of hard hit balls that a fielder can't catch up with.
To the Bonds apologists: I can't believe you are arguing that steriods does not make someone a HR hitter, Bonds did not cheat, etc.
First of all, Bonds admitted to using steriods "unknowingly". Case closed.
Second, I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that Bonds was a great player, a power hitter, etc.
The argument is that the steroids allowed Bonds to cheat his way to the HR record.
The steroids gave him the ability to hit what may have been a warning track fly ball over the stands (on top of the ability to sit on a pitch for longer due to increased bat speed).
He cheated, denied it and no one likes a cheater.
Heck, I use protein shakes and sometimes I feel like I'm cheating.
And what the heck is this about? Sounds to me like someone is being paid off
dainthomas
Lifer
- Dec 7, 2004
- 14,636
- 3,510
- 136
Yup. I saw this at Safeco before they played the Reds. I also heard he was doing this in warm-ups before the All Star game.
His HR total could be many times what it is currently, but simply getting on base and forcing pitchers to worry about him helps the team score more in the long run.
Look at the Giants' crappy record for evidence of what a big HR hitter does.
umbrella39
Lifer
- Jun 11, 2004
- 13,816
- 1,126
- 126
Yes Don, I know
Remember how hard it was to hit 50 home runs in a season up until about 10 years ago? In 1965 Willie Mays hit 52 home runs. You have to wait until 1977 before George Foster accomplishes this again. Then another 13 years until in 1990 Cecil Fielder hits 51. Then, all of a sudden starting in 1995 people are hitting 50 HR in a season with some frequency. Some who you would expect to hit 50 HRs like McGwire and Griffey but then some who you would not, like Brady Anderson or Luis Gonzalez whom by all accounts are/were not power hitters but had that one season when they hit 50+ and the rest of their careers never hit more than 30 in a season. Were they juicing up for a season or two? Sure sounds like they did for one or two off seasons then stopped as their new found "power" disappeared for the rest of their respective careers. Seems the same with Barry. Sure I think he juiced for a year or two but I think he stopped. I guess it is OK as long as you don't break any records in the process.
I think if you look hard enough you can find many, many current ball players who have at the very least in high school, college, or in the pros used some form of genetic enhancement. I know people say that Babe Ruth and the likes of Gehrig, Foxx, Aaron, etc did not juice, but I wonder though if they could have back then, would they?
Agreed on all counts.
I, too, am not a big sports fan... But I'll throw in my $.02:
Bonds is a dick...
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
- 111,143
- 30,099
- 146
that ratio in 1961 is off b/c he was moved to cleanup behind Mantle. Biggest criticism of his 61* (besides the more games played than Ruth, leading to the asterisk), is that he never would have gotten those hittable pitches batting in another spot in the lineup.
Hell, it was big news for the Yankees going into that season. All the sports writers were speculating on how that would be a boon to Maris's hitting.
EDIT: also, Maris had only two good seasons at most. he's in the hall only by virtue of that record that he held, and even then he probably doesn't deserve to be there. of course his HR-AB ratio would be way off the year he made that record.
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
- 111,143
- 30,099
- 146
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Yes Don, I know
Remember how hard it was to hit 50 home runs in a season up until about 10 years ago? In 1965 Willie Mays hit 52 home runs. You have to wait until 1977 before George Foster accomplishes this again. Then another 13 years until in 1990 Cecil Fielder hits 51. Then, all of a sudden starting in 1995 people are hitting 50 HR in a season with some frequency. Some who you would expect to hit 50 HRs like McGwire and Griffey but then some who you would not, like Brady Anderson or Luis Gonzalez whom by all accounts are/were not power hitters but had that one season when they hit 50+ and the rest of their careers never hit more than 30 in a season. Were they juicing up for a season or two? Sure sounds like they did for one or two off seasons then stopped as their new found "power" disappeared for the rest of their respective careers. Seems the same with Barry. Sure I think he juiced for a year or two but I think he stopped. I guess it is OK as long as you don't break any records in the process.
I think if you look hard enough you can find many, many current ball players who have at the very least in high school, college, or in the pros used some form of genetic enhancement. I know people say that Babe Ruth and the likes of Gehrig, Foxx, Aaron, etc did not juice, but I wonder though if they could have back then, would they?
I posted this in the other bonds thread.
The reason homeruns increased at a staggering pace is b/c ballparks have gotten shorter. MLB suggested that they shorten ballparks in an attempt to increase homeruns, overall scoring, and fan interest. That is by far the biggest reason that homeruns increased at such a drastic pace. San Diego's new park is the oddball fo the bunch, however. No surprise that the longest ballpark has the least homeruns, eh?
Oh, and you can add Coors Field into that equation as well. Far more significant to the numbers than a steroids factor ever could be.
Did you notice that the pitcher Barry hit number 755 off of was suspended in the minors for steroid use?
Where were all of you Bonds haters when McGwire and Sosa were juicing and "saved" baseball?
Let's face it, baseball has always had cheaters. Ty Cobb, Gaylord Perry, Mike Scott, etc...
To suddenly get all righteous about Barry Bonds is BS.
I'm a Giants fan, and I am a Barry Bonds fan. Most of you haters would love the man if he played for your favorite team.
I am lucky to have seen two of the greatest to ever play, Willie Mays and Barry Bonds.
Hail the greatest power hitter baseball has ever seen.
Did you notice that at the All-Star game in SF nobody hit a splash hit? Even without steroids Bonds is still just about the only person that can hit the water. And this park and Petco park are the hardest in baseball to hit a home run in.
If Barry had played in Atlanta in the '60's against those expansion teams, he would probably have 900 home runs.
Where were all of you Bonds haters when McGwire and Sosa were juicing and "saved" baseball?
Let's face it, baseball has always had cheaters. Ty Cobb, Gaylord Perry, Mike Scott, etc...
To suddenly get all righteous about Barry Bonds is BS.
I'm a Giants fan, and I am a Barry Bonds fan. Most of you haters would love the man if he played for your favorite team.
I am lucky to have seen two of the greatest to ever play, Willie Mays and Barry Bonds.
Hail the greatest power hitter baseball has ever seen.
Did you notice that at the All-Star game in SF nobody hit a splash hit? Even without steroids Bonds is still just about the only person that can hit the water. And this park and Petco park are the hardest in baseball to hit a home run in.
If Barry had played in Atlanta in the '60's against those expansion teams, he would probably have 900 home runs.
Capt Caveman
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2005
- 34,543
- 651
- 126
Ichiro hits down on the ball to create groundballs and line drives. In BP, he'll occasionally swing with an upper cut and hit a number of homers.
Wade Boggs did the same thing except one year he tried to hit homers and hit 24 homers over of his average of 8.
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
- 111,143
- 30,099
- 146
too true. actually, there are plenty of people that get on McGuire about it, which makes no freaking sense. Androgen was a legal substance when he used it, openly, and in full admission of everyone. It's ridiculous.
I remember a year or two ago, some baseball writer/historian, with the support of an old-school hall of famer (I forget who), mentioned that if cheaters weren't allowed in the hall of fame, then you might as well revoke membership from more than half of those already inducted--esp if they got in during the earlier decades. Almost all of 'em were cheaters.
Hell, one old-timer came out a year ago with some pretty colorful details about all the ways he tried to cheat (rubber super balls shoved into his bat--the one that didn't get busted for it)
what no one seems to understand (at least from what i have read in here) is that nobody knows, and probably will never know, who was on steroids durring this 'era'. For all we know, dozens of pitchers and regular players were juiced. That doesn't erase the fact that he probably would not have these records without the cream, but it also doesn't erase the fact that he was the 'best' of the juiced players..
And as said earlier, hitting a baseball is not influenced that much on strength, takes a whole lot more than that.
And as said earlier, hitting a baseball is not influenced that much on strength, takes a whole lot more than that.
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