747 as fighter jet

tynopik

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Aug 10, 2004
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there has been a certain school of thought that once missiles became advanced enough, any plane would do as a fighter, as long as it could carry the missile and the necessary avionics/radar/etc

taking this to the logical extreme, how about a really big plane such as 747 or B-52 as a fighter?

it could carry enough fuel to reach anywhere in the world and loiter on-station for long periods of time

it could carry MASSIVE amounts of missiles, enough to basically eliminate any airforce in existence

it could carry very powerful radar and essentially be it's own AWACS

but wait you say! wouldn't such a large and unstealthy plane be a huge target and have very low survivability?

most fighters rely on 3 methods to avoid getting shot down: stealth, manoueverability/speed, and countermeasures

obviously 2 of those 3 wouldn't apply to a jumbo fighter, but it has other advantages

1) proactive defense

a) any SAM site that lights up can get pounded immediately
b) any passive launch would be immediately seen and tracked by its powerful radar, enabling counter-battery fire to ensure no subsequent launches
c) it can carry larger missiles than any current fighter. larger missiles = larger range = it can shoot any plane out of the sky before it can get close enough to fire

2) real missile defense

a) like AEGIS cruisers, it could carry and launch actual countermissiles
b) it could also possible carry something similar to the Phalanx CIWS

3) survivability

a) a 747 can fly with 2 of 4 engines blown off
b) there could be a secondary cockpit in the middle of the plane that would enable it to continue flying even if the primary cockpit was damaged/destroyed

basically it would be so big that no one missile (or probably even 2 missiles) could take it down (unless we're talking large anti-ship missiles that usually aren't that good against aerial targets to begin with)

i'm not suggesting an actual 747, but a military plane built along those lines with more redundancy and possibly even bigger and maybe 6-8 engines

ok so i really know nothing at all on this subject and i'm sure if it was a good idea, someone would have already done it, so i'm just curious what problems you see with it
 

MasterAndCommander

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2004
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I believe that the US Air Force is using modded 747's the platform for their airborne laser missle defense system.
 

illusion88

Lifer
Oct 2, 2001
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There is no way it could survive an attack from a real fighter. All the figher has to do is point it's guns at it and shoot. The 747 can't do much against bullets.
 

Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
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LOL that's like saying a cruise ship could double as a destroyer if all the pax were given AK47's.

Wait a minute - nevermind! ;)
 

tynopik

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Aug 10, 2004
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> There is no way it could survive an attack from a real fighter. All the figher has to do is point it's guns at it and shoot. The 747 can't do much against bullets.

um, the fighter shouldn't be able to get within 100 miles of the jumbo fighter before being blown out of the sky

> How many missiles took down KAL 007?

how many countermissiles did KAL 007 carry?
 

illusion88

Lifer
Oct 2, 2001
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Originally posted by: tynopik
basically it would be so big that no one missile (or probably even 2 missiles) could take it down (unless we're talking large anti-ship missiles that usually aren't that good against aerial targets to begin with)

You are just imagining something is invincible. It's ridiculas to think that a 747 could take a hit and continue flying. I can't think of any plane that can take a direct missle hit and continue flying.

How is the 747 going to fly if one of it's wings blow off? How would it fly if the tail was destroyed?
 

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
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Fighter jet? Absolutely not. Bomber? Meh... possibly. Mobile tactical air defense thing-a-ma-bob? Sure! :D
 

KillerCharlie

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2005
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Originally posted by: tynopik
> There is no way it could survive an attack from a real fighter. All the figher has to do is point it's guns at it and shoot. The 747 can't do much against bullets.

um, the fighter shouldn't be able to get within 100 miles of the jumbo fighter before being blown out of the sky

> How many missiles took down KAL 007?

how many countermissiles did KAL 007 carry?


Air-to-air counter missiles? Show me the link.
 

illusion88

Lifer
Oct 2, 2001
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Originally posted by: tynopik
um, the fighter shouldn't be able to get within 100 miles of the jumbo fighter before being blown out of the sky

Again, you are simply imagining something invincible.
Sure, we can all ask the hypothetical "what if our missles rule the sky". Well then there would be no point in sending up a plane anyways, we could shoot down planes fromt he ground in the comfort of our boxers and warm coffee!
 

tynopik

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Aug 10, 2004
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> Air-to-air counter missiles? Show me the link.

there aren't any yet, because no fighter could devote the room to them

but i don't see any reason why they couldn't be developed

also like i said, i'm not talking a literal 747, something like it that is TOUGHER and actually built to withstand a missile impact

and yes, planes have been known to survive missile impacts. many a soviet plane came back after being hit by a stinger

granted, that had a small warhead, but no reason that couldn't be built upon
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
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Originally posted by: MasterAndCommander
I believe that the US Air Force is using modded 747's the platform for their airborne laser missle defense system.
Ayup.
 

Mrvile

Lifer
Oct 16, 2004
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Well, I'm not really into this stuff, but I highly doubt it would work as a fighter. They do already use similar planes for surveillence (sp?) or as bombers, but a fighter? I don't think so.
 

NatePo717

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2005
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It would be impossible to make a 747 a fighter jet due to it's manuverability. It could be used for long range support but never as a fighter.
 

tynopik

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Aug 10, 2004
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> Again, you are simply imagining something invincible.
Sure, we can all ask the hypothetical "what if our missles rule the sky". Well then there would be no point in sending up a plane anyways, we could shoot down planes fromt he ground in the comfort of our boxers and warm coffee!

well our current aerial superiority is predicated upon beyond visual range (BVR) engagements, so this doesn't seem entirely fantasy

ground launched missiles are great for defending your territory, for taking the fight to the enemy territory, they need a little help (i don't think launching something the size of a ballistic missile to take out a single plane would be a good use of resources)
 

Horus

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Dec 27, 2003
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The idea of the B-52 as a "Flying Battleship" is in the "Dreamland" books by Dale Brown. Basically, it's a B-52, with a carbon-fiber skin and skeleton, with Air-to-air missiles, and a massive countermeasure suite. Cool idea.
 

tynopik

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2004
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> It would be impossible to make a 747 a fighter jet due to it's manuverability.

if you shoot down all planes 100 miles out, manoueverability doesn't matter, only your missiles do