74 people shot, 11 fatally, in Chicago over the weekend

[soundforbjt]

The origin of the weapons is NOT to blame for the root cause of the problem. While it may be a possible enabler (and I wouldn't go that far), you need to look at the problems Chicago has created for itself before you start pointing the finger at other states.

Before you edited your post, here's the answer to where most of the guns come from.

When it comes to gun laws, big cities are only as strong as the states that border them. And in Chicago’s case, that’s Indiana. Thanks to Vice President Mike Pence, the former governor, Indiana has some of the weakest gun laws in the nation.

While Illinois has gone to great lengths to see that background checks are done for all gun purchases, Indiana has done the opposite. To buy a weapon in Illinois, the owner must have a valid firearms owner’s identification card, issued by the Illinois State Police.

With no permit or license required to purchase a gun in Indiana, it is incredibly easy for a trafficker to drive across the state line, obtain a gun and use it to commit a homicide on the streets of Chicago.

Those with felony convictions commonly use straw purchases, in which they enlist someone with a clean record to purchase multiple guns and bring them into the city.

Law enforcement officials say 60 percent of the guns confiscated on the streets of Chicago come from Indiana, Wisconsin and Mississippi. The other 40 percent come from suburban Cook County and nearby suburbs.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...l-chicago-dahleen-glanton-20171003-story.html

 

[dphantom]

Yet, murder is down 30% in Chicago and per capita it's not even in the top 5-10 of dangerous cities.

Which I guess makes it ok?? Or perhaps not important enough with all the other pressing concerns like collusion?

 

[fskimospy]

Which I guess makes it ok?? Or perhaps not important enough with all the other pressing concerns like collusion?

It doesn't make it okay, but it does make you wonder why people keep bringing up Chicago when there are many far more dangerous cities in the US.

Now that you mention it though yes, it is a pressing concern when people running for president commit a crime by soliciting illegal opposition research contributions from a hostile foreign power. It becomes an even more pressing concern when they lie about it over and over again, indicating that they have additional criminal activity to hide. I'm sure you agree.

 

[umbrella39]

Had to see who you were talking to as I have dphantom blocked and for good reason it seems... Typical team sport braindead twat stuck on false equivalence to justify his fucked up brain...

 

[dphantom]

Before you edited your post, here's the answer to where most of the guns come from.

So first of all, are these people being killed by pistols or long guns? If pistols, then going to Indiana won't make a difference as one must be an Indiana resident to purchase.

For any gun purchase in Indiana, at a MINIMUM, the following must happen:

For all firearm purchases you must present a valid photo ID that includes your current address (drivers license, state ID card, military ID w/ current orders). The actual buyer must also complete ATF Form 4473 and be granted a proceed response to a "national instant criminal search" or "NICS" background check.

For pistols and other NFA weapons, this must occur along with the above:
To buy a handgun, receiver, pistol gripped shotgun, or NFA firearm you must be at least 21 years old and a resident of Indiana.

So it is a nice meme the 2nd amendment opponents like to put out but it really is a false flag. These weapons used in the shootings in almost all cases were obtained illegally or under false pretenses. The idea that any other State (or suburb) is the cause of the shootings is preposterous. The cause of the shootings is for the most part gang violence. Address that and the shootings go away as a problem.

 

[dphantom]

Had to see who you were talking to as I have dphantom blocked and for good reason it seems... Typical team sport braindead twat stuck on false equivalence to justify his fucked up brain...

can't handle the truth, eh??

 

[dphantom]

It doesn't make it okay, but it does make you wonder why people keep bringing up Chicago when there are many far more dangerous cities in the US.

Now that you mention it though yes, it is a pressing concern when people running for president commit a crime by soliciting illegal opposition research contributions from a hostile foreign power. It becomes an even more pressing concern when they lie about it over and over again, indicating that they have additional criminal activity to hide. I'm sure you agree.

oh well that is precious. Let's see:

Clinton campaign used the DNC and Fusion GPS via a Law firm to hire a foreign agent who in turn hired and used Russian agents to build an unverified dossier. Who is using illegal opposition research contributions from a hostile foreign power? Wonder whatever happened to the Podesta Group and Tony.

Neither what Clinton did, nor supposedly, yet not verified, Trump campaign staff might have done was illegal. Clinton, though rather shady, was as far as I know perfectly within the law with what she did. Same with the Trump campaign.

 

[soundforbjt]

So first of all, are these people being killed by pistols or long guns? If pistols, then going to Indiana won't make a difference as one must be an Indiana resident to purchase.

For any gun purchase in Indiana, at a MINIMUM, the following must happen:

For all firearm purchases you must present a valid photo ID that includes your current address (drivers license, state ID card, military ID w/ current orders). The actual buyer must also complete ATF Form 4473 and be granted a proceed response to a "national instant criminal search" or "NICS" background check.

For pistols and other NFA weapons, this must occur along with the above:
To buy a handgun, receiver, pistol gripped shotgun, or NFA firearm you must be at least 21 years old and a resident of Indiana.

So it is a nice meme the 2nd amendment opponents like to put out but it really is a false flag. These weapons used in the shootings in almost all cases were obtained illegally or under false pretenses. The idea that any other State (or suburb) is the cause of the shootings is preposterous. The cause of the shootings is for the most part gang violence. Address that and the shootings go away as a problem.

So, there's NO criminals in Indiana, etc. looking to make a big profit selling guns to people from Chicago, is that what you're saying?

Law enforcement officials say 60 percent of the guns confiscated on the streets of Chicago come from Indiana, Wisconsin and Mississippi.

 

[Pulsar]

Before you edited your post, here's the answer to where most of the guns come from.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...l-chicago-dahleen-glanton-20171003-story.html

Yeah - I started doing the research and it appears that you are correct - because Chicago's gun laws are restrictive it's much easier to get guns out of state. Hence the deleted post. But I stand by the fact that the guns are not the cause of the murders, but merely another symptom.

 

[K1052]

Never been to Chicago and never will... though I would like to catch a game at Wrigley one day.

They have taken over 5,000 guns off the street this year yet there is no short supply of guns to be stolen and sold to replace them daily...

Essentially all of this is on the far west and south sides. Nowhere anybody visiting town is going to be unless they have a fetish for bombed out neighborhoods or are looking for heroin.

 

[realibrad]

Yeah - I started doing the research and it appears that you are correct - because Chicago's gun laws are restrictive it's much easier to get guns out of state. Hence the deleted post. But I stand by the fact that the guns are not the cause of the murders, but merely another symptom.

Perhaps there is something that effects the demographic in the cities that raise the homicide rate?

Stealth racist post edited to something only slightly less stealth racist by this poster.

Perknose
Forum Director

 

[Pulsar]

Perhaps there is a demographic in the cities that raise the homicide rate?

Maybe I'm reading your post incorrectly - but I don't think it's a black/white issue as much as it is a socio-economic issue and a culture issue. I.e. - inner city culture (which has nothing to do with race at all).

 

[BurnItDwn]

Why does the state average much lower rates relative to that city, and a few others in the state? Is there something that makes those cities different?

Population of Gary has shrunk when the blue collar working man's job prospects started to decline in the 1970s. Since then, people have been fleeing. The people who "stay" are the ones who can't afford to move, and are more likely to turn to crime.

You can see the "number of murders" decline as the "murder rate per 100k" increase.
The loss of tax revenue from the declining tax base causes less money to work it's way into things like law enforcement and infrastructure maintenance, and this causes the streets to more or less become open gang territory. Similar thing that has happened in other places over the years.

 

[Jaskalas]

Yeah, I would call this news. What kind of sicko shoots people at random including people at a funeral? WTF!

That's gang warfare. Kill one of them, you know where the rest will be located shortly. Plan, prep, and execute. Maybe take out an entire gang in one swoop. Any sort of gathering is a huge, juicy, target when it comes to bloodshed.

Just count your lucky stars they don't know how to make drone IEDs... yet.

 

[fskimospy]

oh well that is precious. Let's see:

Clinton campaign used the DNC and Fusion GPS via a Law firm to hire a foreign agent who in turn hired and used Russian agents to build an unverified dossier. Who is using illegal opposition research contributions from a hostile foreign power? Wonder whatever happened to the Podesta Group and Tony.

Trump was attempting to get illegal opposition research, not Clinton. There is absolutely nothing illegal or even shady about Clinton hiring people to do opposition research and paying the fair market price for it. Did you really, honestly think it's illegal for campaigns to hire foreign nations for any reason whatsoever? Like... really? Does that mean they can't stay at a hotel owned by a foreign national? Can't order sandwiches from the Polish deli down the street? This is

Trump's campaign on the other hand deliberately solicited a donation of valuable opposition research directly from a hostile foreign government as part of that foreign government's espionage activities against our country.

Neither what Clinton did, nor supposedly, yet not verified, Trump campaign staff might have done was illegal. Clinton, though rather shady, was as far as I know perfectly within the law with what she did. Same with the Trump campaign.

What Trump's campaign did was most likely illegal and I suspect at a minimum you will see Don Jr. eventually indicted over it, perhaps Kushner as well.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/trumps-preposterous-collusion-not-crime-defense

1) It is illegal for foreign nationals or governments to contribute anything of value to a US campaign.
2) Opposition research is clearly something of value as both the Russians and/or the Trump campaign would have had to spend time and money to get it, and it's something they clearly desired.
3) It is also illegal to SOLICIT illegal contributions from foreign nationals and foreign governments.
4) Don Jr. is on the record as having done exactly that, soliciting those contributions from a source he knew was the Russian government.

Do you care to revise your opinion on the legality of the Trump campaign's actions? If not, can you specify why you think this meeting did not violate federal election law, specifically?

Right wing media has been working overtime to convince people that nothing illegal happened here but as usual they are just lying to you because they have no respect for their audience. Don't be duped.

 

[fskimospy]

Regardless, the emphasis on Chicago as being a particularly dangerous city is silliness, likely some combination of innumeracy on the part of the media and media consumers along with conservatives' endless attempts to associate Obama with some sort of bad thing from Chicago that's gone back years.

 

[umbrella39]

Perhaps there is a demographic in the cities that raise the homicide rate?

Yep. Poor people... Oddly enough people well off seldom commit crimes such as these... People need to stop being not well off...

 

[realibrad]

Maybe I'm reading your post incorrectly - but I don't think it's a black/white issue as much as it is a socio-economic issue and a culture issue. I.e. - inner city culture (which has nothing to do with race at all).

Its not a lot about economics. Poverty is not the strongest link, so that seems unlikely here.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Obama has been busy putting caps in asses.
Thanks Obama

 

[K1052]

That's gang warfare. Kill one of them, you know where the rest will be located shortly. Plan, prep, and execute. Maybe take out an entire gang in one swoop. Any sort of gathering is a huge, juicy, target when it comes to bloodshed.

Just count your lucky stars they don't know how to make drone IEDs... yet.

There has been a marked increase in retaliatory killings in recent years due to a flawed tactic of the previous CPD chief that went after gang leadership. Started an ongoing turf war and a spiraling cycle of retaliation that continues today. The city has been using some new technology at the district level to analyze who will be involved in some of these shootings to good effect but it isn't perfect. Also violence from the fight over the drug trade continues of course.

 

[dphantom]

Left wing media has been working overtime to convince people that something illegal happened here but as usual they are just lying to you because they have no respect for their audience. Don't be duped.

fixed that for you

Back to our regularly scheduled programming.

 

[Vic]

Not sure what he could even do to fix it.

Why is that?

 

[realibrad]

Population of Gary has shrunk when the blue collar working man's job prospects started to decline in the 1970s. Since then, people have been fleeing. The people who "stay" are the ones who can't afford to move, and are more likely to turn to crime.

You can see the "number of murders" decline as the "murder rate per 100k" increase.
The loss of tax revenue from the declining tax base causes less money to work it's way into things like law enforcement and infrastructure maintenance, and this causes the streets to more or less become open gang territory. Similar thing that has happened in other places over the years.

It appears that crime causes poverty, and not the other way around. Its a common misconception. If your normalize races by income, you still see the same differences in homicide rates.

 

[Jaskalas]

Regardless, the emphasis on Chicago as being a particularly dangerous city is silliness, likely some combination of innumeracy on the part of the media and media consumers along with conservatives' endless attempts to associate Obama with some sort of bad thing from Chicago that's gone back years.

Obama? No. Think low hanging fruit.

The focus on Chicago does two things. Misdirects gun violence towards "see, we gotta arm to protect ourselves from this" and also misdirects to assert "it's those people doing it, not us".

 

[realibrad]

Yep. Poor people... Oddly enough people well off seldom commit crimes such as these... People need to stop being not well off...

Nope, not poor people. I said this already, but, when you normalize for wealth by race, you still see the same rates. There are groups that are over represented even after that adjustment.