Question 7-zip crashes when compressing large files when I have XMP turned on. How to tell if the memory controller on the cpu is bad or if it's the RAM?

[SteveGrabowski]

Just did a platform upgrade with an i5-12400F, MSI Mortar B660m WIFI DDR4 board, and 2x8GB of G.Skill CAS18 DDR4 3600 RAM and when I enable XMP to get my RAM running at DDR4 3600 speeds either 7-zip fails or my computer crashes when I try to compress PS2 roms of size ~4-8GB into .7z files using 7-zip. They all compress fine when I turn XMP off and my RAM runs at DDR4 2133 speeds. Is there a way I can test whether the RAM itself isn't living up to its stated speed, or if its the memory controller on the cpu that's faulty? I know Alder Lake only guarantees DDR4-3200 speeds so I guess I can't guarantee DDR4-3600 speed since it's considered an overclock but if the RAM is the problem I'm returning it for another DDR4 3600 kit. But would hate to keep returning and ordering RAM if it's the memory controller killing me.

 

[jpiniero]

This running in Gear 2 sucks. DRR4 3600 at Gear 1 gave me a Passmark Memory score 29% higher than DDR4 2133 at Gear 1. Running the same test at DDR4 3600 Gear 2 gave me a score only 11% above DDR4 2133 at Gear 1. What a joke, feel conned by Intel.

Try 3200 G1 at actual JEDEC timings? Does it have any other XMP profiles to try?

 

[igor_kavinski]

What a joke, feel conned by Intel.

How about returning the i5-12400F and getting i5-12600KF?

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Try 3200 G1 at actual JEDEC timings? Does it have any other XMP profiles to try?

Only has the 18-22-22-42 DDR4 3600 profile for XMP. Tried 3200MT/s Gear 1 at 16-18-18-38 timings (eg like the typical CAS16 DDR4 3200 kits) and couldn't boot. Didn't check it at 18-22-22-42 timings at 3200MT/s Gear 1 yet. Might do it tomorrow, kind of sick of wasting my Sunday already tbh.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

How about returning the i5-12400F and getting i5-12600KF?

Not really worth the $90 extra to me.

 

[jpiniero]

Tried 3200MT/s Gear 1 at 16-18-18-38 timings (eg like the typical CAS16 DDR4 3200 kits) and couldn't boot.

Try 20-20-20 or 22-22-22.

 

[JoeRambo]

Junk grade memory usually has three four things to go with XMP profile:

1) Voltage is set to some rather ridiculous amount - like 1.4V for 3600C18 etc
2) SA / IO voltages is jacked up to 1.35V or so by motherboard when XMP is loaded and memory is in QVL or in some table
3) XMP profiles contains junk yard levels of secondary timings, talking about tFAW in the sky etc

What is missing in this case is QVL and ability to pump SA voltage on non-K CPU.

How is it failing @ 3200? Going from 2133 to 3200 won't work, as it fails (3), much tighter secondary timings selected by mobo than this junk can withstand.

So best bet is this strategy: load XMP, lower memory speed to say 3400 and it should work. if it doesn't, my recommendation is to return it, as even if after wasting time to make it work by manual timings etc You end up with junk mem.

Alternative could be XMP @3600 and relaxing CL to 19, that could make IMC work @ 0.95V SA. If there is VCC AUX in the BIOS and it is 1.8V, i suggest rising it to 1.85V or so, could help somewhat.

Remember Alder Lake is all about memory performance, You want as high memory controller clocks ( gear1 and as high mem as possible) and as tight memory as possible as well.

 

[jpiniero]

^^^

Problem is that all the garbage quality chips get dumped to the 12400/F. You might not be able to compare to what a K chip might be able to do.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Well at least have been able to get DDR4-3200 Gear 1 at 18-22-22-42 timings to pass in compressing a dual layer 8GB PS2 rom with 7zip, which was crashing my computer at DDR4-3600 Gear 1 18-22-22-42. Passmark Memory bench is definitely better at DDR4 3200 Gear 1 than DDR4 3600 Gear 2 (3366 vs 3059). Guess I'll work on the timings now and see what I can get away with lowering while still being able to compress that PS2 with 7-zip before applying a proper stress test.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Can't post at 16-18-18-38 3200 MT/s Gear 1, but 17-20-20-40 3200 MT/s Gear 1 seems to work. Looks like the BIOS update helped.

Since this will run fine at 18-22-22-42 3600 MT/s Gear 2 should I take this as an indictment of my i5-12400F's memory controller? Or is it worth trying a memory kit with an XMP profile for 16-18-18-38 3200 MT/s and see if I can further improve on that?

 

[igor_kavinski]

How about DDR4-3600 CL14? It's pricey.

https://www.amazon.com/HP-Gaming-Desktop-Computer-Memory/dp/B09NCLNYG8

 

[Markfw]

How about DDR4-3600 CL14? It's pricey.

https://www.amazon.com/HP-Gaming-Desktop-Computer-Memory/dp/B09NCLNYG8

Something about Alder lake. Can't run above 3200 no matter what. So for the lowest CL rating in 3200. (DDR4 only comment)

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Something about Alder lake. Can't run above 3200 no matter what. So for the lowest CL rating in 3200. (DDR4 only comment)

But is the fact my RAM can run 18-22-22-42 DDR4 3600 at Gear 2 but is unstable at 18-22-22-42 DDR4 3600 Gear 1 an indictment of the cpu memory controller or is it possible my RAM is just crap? This is what I have right now:

https://www.amazon.com/G-Skill-RipJaws-PC4-28800-CL18-22-22-42-F4-3600C18D-16GVK/dp/B07XJLDHW4

 

[bigboxes]

This sounds like memory instability IMO, I would start first with memtest86, running at XMP. If you get errors, most likely it is just unstable RAM, and the memory kit should be RMA'd or returned. You can also try OCCT as mentioned.

Of course, since Alder Lake is so new, a BIOS update does sound pertinent.

Word for word. This. Run memtest86. Your ram is rated for XMP. It better do XMP or return it ASAP. That would be my guess.

 

[igor_kavinski]

is it possible my RAM is just crap?

You could try upping the RAM voltage or IMC voltage to make it stable. But then permanent damage is possible.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Your mobo is on the QVL for this RAM kit. Ask G.Skill support. They might help you decide what to do (keep the kit or return it).

 

[SteveGrabowski]

View attachment 62692

Your mobo is on the QVL for this RAM kit. Ask G.Skill support. They might help you decide what to do (keep the kit or return it).

It does run the XMP preset though, which is probably all they'd care about. Albeit at Gear 2 after the update to the newest BIOS. So I have no intention of running the XMP profile with how much Gear 2 slows the RAM down. I get a higher Passmark Memory benchmark score at DDR4 2700 Gear 1 than DDR4 3600 Gear 2.

 

[JoeRambo]

But is the fact my RAM can run 18-22-22-42 DDR4 3600 at Gear 2 but is unstable at 18-22-22-42 DDR4 3600 Gear 1 an indictment of the cpu memory controller or is it possible my RAM is just crap? This is what I have right now:

No, it is result of 12400 chip not being able to rise VCCSA voltage that is required to run Your memory controller @1800mhz and instead is switched to 900mhz in Gear2 mode, that is way easier on IMC.
Your ram is junk grade and requires higher voltages than this SKU can feed it. But even with better memory You might run into problems @3600, as usually VCCSA voltage required is a function of speed and tightened timings like CL.

If you want to work on this ram with manual timings, focus on ~3500CL18, that would give decent performance.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

No, it is result of 12400 chip not being able to rise VCCSA voltage that is required to run Your memory controller @1800mhz and instead is switched to 900mhz in Gear2 mode, that is way easier on IMC.
Your ram is junk grade and requires higher voltages than this SKU can feed it. But even with better memory You might run into problems @3600, as usually VCCSA voltage required is a function of speed and tightened timings like CL.

If you want to work on this ram with manual timings, focus on ~3500CL18, that would give decent performance.

You think if this MC can't handle 1800MHz at that voltage limit it would have much of a chance with 1750MHz?

 

[JoeRambo]

You think if this MC can't handle 1800MHz at that voltage limit it would have much of a chance with 1750MHz?

Ofc, it is not linear and depends not only on speed but on Cas latency too, relaxed latency = less load on controller, Limit on Your CPU is 0.95V default VCCSA and Intel must be sure it supports 3200 speeds on whatever motherboard. So there are fat margins provided and as You probably realized now, it almost works on 3600. So 3500 sounds like safe bet.

BTW 3600 can be provided by both 133 and 100 settings and i'd test them both, to see maybe it does help.

 

[Shmee]

Hmm, I guess I learned something in this thread about locked Alder Lake. I would return the CPU and RAM, and go with a 12700KF and some better tiered RAM. It doesn't have to be Samsung B die, but that is a possibility.

Edit: actually, I would return the board as well. Get a Z series board these days if going with Intel. After seeing this thread, it is evident that we should avoid anything locked.

 

[Markfw]

Hmm, I guess I learned something in this thread about locked Alder Lake. I would return the CPU and RAM, and go with a 12700KF and some better tiered RAM. It doesn't have to be Samsung B die, but that is a possibility.

Edit: actually, I would return the board as well. Get a Z series board these days if going with Intel. After seeing this thread, it is evident that we should avoid anything locked.

But I have a Z690P board, and its either 3200 or gear mode 2, no option, regardless of ram. (DDR4) Your only other option is DDR5

 

[JoeRambo]

I would not call memory tuning and overclocking easy for average user. That's why i give high praise to 5800X3D, where large L3 cache holds your hand no matter what with stock memory.

But ADL is perfectly fine with DDR4 memory, it just takes effort, sticking to Asus or MSI motherboards and knowing way around memory params. XMP was, is and will always be something you just don't touch.

The other thing is, that in reality motherboards are made either with B-Die or Micron E-Die in mind. So you either run stock 3200 memory with any brand, or you need those to have a chance of motherboard selecting and training correct secondary and tertiary timings for them.

 

[DrMrLordX]

XMP was, is and will always be something you just don't touch.

I'm surprised by the number of people out there reliant on XMP when it can be so bad.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I'm surprised by the number of people out there reliant on XMP when it can be so bad.

It's surprisingly painless when it does work. Kingston Fury RAM with i5-12400/Asus H610M at DDR4-3000 CL15 XMP profile worked like a charm for me and beat the Apple M1 GB5 ST score.

 

[JoeRambo]

I'm surprised by the number of people out there reliant on XMP when it can be so bad.

It's not optimal that's for sure. Even when it works, it will select real bad secondary/tertiary timing, jack VCCSA to heavens ( even DRAM voltage might get funny, for example ASrock is known to under report, so you select 1.44V in BIOS and multimeter would show 1.46V ). They really want XMP to "just work", as if it doesn't it means return of the motherboard.

And there are dark games, i and other memory tuners had following situation -> know exact settings ( or save profile in bios) -> load XMP -> restore settings (or load profile). And boom, restored profile does not work, cause motherboard has tuned some hidden settings to make XMP work. After BIOS reset to defaults it works fine on same settings again.

It's surprisingly painless when it does work. Kingston Fury RAM with i5-12400/Asus H610M at DDR4-3000 CL15 XMP profile worked like a charm for me and beat the Apple M1 GB5 ST score.

It does, in case of original poster it is a problem that 3600 requires VCCSA that is above 0.95V his chip provides. And there are no other profiles to load. So he would need to do everything manually, starting in reverse from 3600 selected timings and dialing them in at lower speed, cause his memory does not know how to train them by itself.