6950 to 7850

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tigersty1e

Golden Member
Dec 13, 2004
1,963
0
76
Huh? 25% more money for 20-25% more fps is just fantastic when you're talking about last gen to next gen. Even within the same generation, it's good.

I also price in the benchmark/overclock fun factor and the power consumption factor.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Fail. ppl are used to at least 35% improvement from gen to gen for same price. 680 gave you that. 5800 gave you that (actually 100%) 2xx gave you that, 4xx gave u that.

U guys are looking to build systems from scratch but this gen offers nothing inticing for ppl that already got cards.

Unless U came from GTX 580 - at least U got 35% faster for same price. Which is still low compared to past.

a 7870 would be a good upgrade (35%) from 6870 but for some reason it costs twice as much when it should cost same.

a 7950 would be a good upgrade(35% at least) from 6950 but for some reason it costs $150 more

Face it. 28nm are way overpriced. Especially AMD.
 
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BallaTheFeared

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2010
8,115
0
71
Huh? 25% more money for 20-25% more fps is just fantastic when you're talking about last gen to next gen. Even within the same generation, it's good.

I also price in the benchmark/overclock fun factor and the power consumption factor.

Not really considering he probably spent $250 to $280 on the unlockable 6950 if it got it last year.

You have to count the loss of of initial cost, since you're losing $50-80 on the resale of the old product.

Sell it for $200, lose $50-80, add another $50, cost is $130-$100 for 20-25% more performance.

28nm is pretty awful right now.
 

tigersty1e

Golden Member
Dec 13, 2004
1,963
0
76
Fail. ppl are used to at least 35% improvement from gen to gen for same price. 680 gave you that. 5800 gave you that (actually 100%) 2xx gave you that, 4xx gave u that.

U guys are looking to build systems from scratch but this gen offers nothing inticing for ppl that already got cards.

Unless U came from GTX 580 - at least U got 35% faster for same price. Which is still low compared to past.

a 7870 would be a good upgrade (35%) from 6870 but for some reason it costs twice as much when it should cost same.

a 7950 would be a good upgrade(35% at least) from 6950 but for some reason it costs $150 more

Your logic is so fail. So if Nvidia charged $1000 for a gtx 580, that would mean the gtx 680 at $900 is OMG Goobers fantastic deal.

The start of this terrible pricing for this gen can be traced to the 6950/6970 vs the GTX 580 pricing. The GTX 580 was way overpriced and the 6950 was priced for tremendous value.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Those are flights of fancy and you wish to question logic? Fact is every single generation change from both vendors gave you at least 35% performance improvement for same prices as before until this one. Now you get +-35% performance for twice the price with AMD.
 
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tigersty1e

Golden Member
Dec 13, 2004
1,963
0
76
Those are flights of fancy and you wish to question logic? Fact is every single generation change from both vendors gave you at least 35% performance improvement for same prices as before until this one. Now you get +-35% performance for twice the price with AMD.

that's because the 5870 and 6970 should've been priced higher. amd is just now going for the cash instead of going for the market share.

stop thinking elementary and assigning fixed 35% performance increase for same money.

look at top dog card and then price cards accordingly. 7970 @ $450, 7950 @ 380 are priced fair....

why else do you think the 6950 is still worth so much ($200)?
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Not really considering he probably spent $250 to $280 on the unlockable 6950 if it got it last year.

You have to count the loss of of initial cost, since you're losing $50-80 on the resale of the old product.

Sell it for $200, lose $50-80, add another $50, cost is $130-$100 for 20-25% more performance.

28nm is pretty awful right now.

I saw 6950s as low as $220 NIB. I wouldnt say 7950 needs to be there yet until 660's come but it needs to be a heck of a lot lower than $380 and $450 was ridiculous.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
that's because the 5870 and 6970 should've been priced higher. amd is just now going for the cash instead of going for the market share.

stop thinking elementary and assigning fixed 35% performance increase for same money.

look at top dog card and then price cards accordingly. 7970 @ $450, 7950 @ 380 are priced fair....

why else do you think the 6950 is still worth so much ($200)?

Using your logic video cards prices would be $4000 by now since you equate % increase worth same % price jump.

Sorry most ppl won't buy there. Instead we will wait for moores law and pay same for double like we are used to.
 

tigersty1e

Golden Member
Dec 13, 2004
1,963
0
76
Not really considering he probably spent $250 to $280 on the unlockable 6950 if it got it last year.

You have to count the loss of of initial cost, since you're losing $50-80 on the resale of the old product.

Sell it for $200, lose $50-80, add another $50, cost is $130-$100 for 20-25% more performance.

28nm is pretty awful right now.

is it backwards logic day today? you don't factor in the original cost of the card.

if the 7850 cost $200, then that would mean a cost of $50 (buy 6950 for 250 and sell for 200)

but in reality, you are really getting 20-25% performance for free. the original cost is a sunk cost.
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
is it backwards logic day today? you don't factor in the original cost of the card.

if the 7850 cost $200, then that would mean a cost of $50 (buy 6950 for 250 and sell for 200)

but in reality, you are really getting 20-25% performance for free. the original cost is a sunk cost.
:rolleyes:
 

BallaTheFeared

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2010
8,115
0
71
Yeah I'm not getting it, does that mean if I had a 580 and bought a 560Ti after selling my 580 for $400 Nvidia paid me $150?
 

Upgrade_Itch

Senior member
Apr 25, 2012
236
0
0
Fail. ppl are used to at least 35% improvement from gen to gen for same price. 680 gave you that. 5800 gave you that (actually 100%) 2xx gave you that, 4xx gave u that.

U guys are looking to build systems from scratch but this gen offers nothing inticing for ppl that already got cards.

Unless U came from GTX 580 - at least U got 35% faster for same price. Which is still low compared to past.

a 7870 would be a good upgrade (35%) from 6870 but for some reason it costs twice as much when it should cost same.

a 7950 would be a good upgrade(35% at least) from 6950 but for some reason it costs $150 more

Face it. 28nm are way overpriced. Especially AMD.

The smaller the process (28nm) the more failed silicon. This is why Nvidia GTX 680 isn't on many shelves.

For manufacturers its not about what percentage of framerate increase is to be expected its about making a certain percentage of profit. Especially if workers are paid an hourly wage as opposed to salary, a smaller process will result in a higher percentage of gpu processor failure.

Once the 28nm process is somewhat perfected the price:performance ratio will improve. The first venture into a smaller process usually has a lower price:performance to make up for silicon failures.
 

Jaydip

Diamond Member
Mar 29, 2010
3,691
21
81
is it backwards logic day today? you don't factor in the original cost of the card.

if the 7850 cost $200, then that would mean a cost of $50 (buy 6950 for 250 and sell for 200)

but in reality, you are really getting 20-25% performance for free. the original cost is a sunk cost.

A little explanation would be helpful.I am missing the point completely.
 

tigersty1e

Golden Member
Dec 13, 2004
1,963
0
76
Using your logic video cards prices would be $4000 by now since you equate % increase worth same % price jump.

Sorry most ppl won't buy there. Instead we will wait for moores law and pay same for double like we are used to.

I'm pointing out your faulty logic of saying amd is giving users a lousy deal because gtx 580 was $500 and for the same old price of $500, nvidia is giving you a nice performance jump, but amd is not at the same price point.

You're assuming the 6950 was fairly priced. It was underpriced in comparison to the old top dog (gtx 580) and now the 7900 series is fairly priced in comparison to the top dog (gtx 680).

The 6950 to the gtx 580 is similar to the 7950 to the gtx 680 in terms of fps competitiveness. So if the 6950 was selling for $380, you would wrongly say that amd users are giving a fair deal because for the same $380, users get a nice performance jump. But AMD was giving users an awesome deal in the 6900 series and is now giving users a fair deal.

-----------------------------------------

The top dog uber card has always been priced about $500. If they could charge $4000 and keep the same sales numbers they would. But they also need to keep in mind unit sales. The 7970 beat the gtx 580 and came in at 550. The top dog card sets the price and the rest of the stack falls in line. The gtx 680 could've been priced at 600, but there's a beautiful thing called competition.
 
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Jaydip

Diamond Member
Mar 29, 2010
3,691
21
81
NV could have easily charged 600$ if it was the BigK.I think they were really surprised that 680 turned out to be so good.I think they planned it for a lower price point but they beefed up the price after seeing it can compete and beat 7970.
 

tigersty1e

Golden Member
Dec 13, 2004
1,963
0
76

A little explanation would be helpful.I am missing the point completely.

If my 6950 (original cost of 250) was worthless today and I wanted to upgrade to the 7850 (at 200), would it cost me 200 or 450 (6950 cost plus the 7850 cost)?

If someone came to me and said he wanted to trade me his 7850 for my 6950 flat out, would that cost me nothing? What if he said for tax purposes or record keeping, he needed to give me $200 and I needed to give him $200. Would it then cost me $50? (original cost of 250 minus 200 cost of selling 6950)


Yeah I'm not getting it, does that mean if I had a 580 and bought a 560Ti after selling my 580 for $400 Nvidia paid me $150?

I'm not understanding what you mean?

You buy the 580 at $500 and sell it for $400. Then you buy the 560ti at $250?

If thats the case, then you get paid $150 for decreasing your performance.
 
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Jaydip

Diamond Member
Mar 29, 2010
3,691
21
81
It would cost u 200$ as u said the other card is scrap.Is that what u mean?
 

BallaTheFeared

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2010
8,115
0
71
It would cost u 200$ as u said the other card is scrap.Is that what u mean?

My maths aren't very good, but it seems to me...

You spent $500, got back $400, Spent $250 of it on another card, so you total cost was $350 for the 560 Ti.

Granted you did spend $150 less overall, which I guess makes this scenario awful in retrospect, but the fact is you still paid $350 for a $250 GTX 560 Ti.
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
Using your logic video cards prices would be $4000 by now since you equate % increase worth same % price jump.

Sorry most ppl won't buy there. Instead we will wait for moores law and pay same for double like we are used to.

moore's law is not a law