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6800U is 16x1, X800P is 12x1???
- Thread starter g3pro
- Start date
SneakyStuff
Diamond Member
I think that the 6800u is a 16x2 pipeline, and the regular 6800 will be a 12x1. Not sure about the ATI card though, I hear it's going to be a 16x1, but once again, not sure.
charloscarlies
Golden Member
damn dp
charloscarlies
Golden Member
well it's all speculation of course....but the number of pipelines isn't the only determing factor of what makes a video card fast.
RussianSensation
Elite Member
No one said X800Pro will be faster than 6800Ultra
The speculation revolves around X800xt with 16 pipelines and presumed 600/1200 clock speeds vs. 6800Ultra with its 16 pipelines but only 400/1100 clock speeds.
6800ultra is NOT 16X2 it's clearly 16x1/32x0 -- That's a fact ppl learn it.
RussianSensation
Elite Member
Because if Nvidia is 2x+ faster than 9800xt right now while having 400mhz GPu and 9800xt has 412mhz GPU making clock speeds roughly equal and Nvidia's memory is 1100 vs 730 for 9800xt
But ATI will roll out with 600mhz GPU and 1200 memory and same 16 pipelines thats the assumption here
Which means that 600/400 = 50% OR ATI will have to be 50% less efficient per clock cycle JUST for Nvidia to match ATI in GPU performance alone not mentioning the 1200/1100 = 9% improvement in memory also. Now even if ATI's architecture is old I find it very very hard to believe that per clock cycle it is 50% less efficient. If that was to be true then NV40 would beat ATI by a lot more than 2x on average
Look at it this way
If ATI's old R360 architecture is 50% less efficient than NVidia's then ATI's 412mhz 8 pipeline GPU is roughly equal to 275mhz (412/275 = 50%) more efficient 8 pipeline Nvidia GPU.
But NV40 has 400mhz GPU thus already making it 45% more powerful than the 275mhz GPU that we have assessed above correct? (400/275 = 45% faster) So based on this logic if 50% efficiency was to be believed, ATI's 9800xt GPU is already slower by 45% off the bat. Let's believe in that for 1 moment.
But of course we know NV40's GPU has 16 pipelines and not 8! so now it has 2x the fill rate so roughly 90-100% improvement. Furthermore, NV40's memory is clocked at 1100mhz vs 730 for 9800xt so 51% faster (1100/730).
So now you have 45% faster GPU (if you assume the 50% efficiency just needed to tie Ati's new X800xt GPU for NV40) and 51% faster memory of NV40 against 9800xt which lets say both roughly equate to 45% overall improvement (taking the lower end).
Now lets say the doubling of the pipelines translates into only 90% improvement so you have 135% (45% + 90%) total improvement over 9800xt. That means if 100% = 2x performance increase, this card will be 2.7x (135% x 2 / 100%) faster on average than 9800xt producing a 3dmark03 score of about 6000 (9800xt) x 2.7 = 16200 and be roughly 2.7 x faster in games which is clearly not the case.
Thus ATI is not 50% less efficient per clock cycle even with its old architecture. Well now can you start to see how X800Xt is starting to look a lot better? Of course all this is just theory as the clock speeds have not been confirmed.
kylebisme
Diamond Member
an old architecture? it borrows from the previous generations but then so does the geforce line from the fx all the way back to the tnt2, but obviously even the original geforce is much more than just a glorfied tnt2. as for the pipleline count, that is only one small part of a big puzzle, there really isn't enough public information about the x800s right now to make claims either way.
Yes, nv is debuting 16x1 then 12x1, ati is the reverse, 12x1 then 16x1. It appears by the time the 6800Ultra is available, the ati X800 Pro (12x1) will be available to buy as well, and then a month later the X800 XT (16x1) is scheduled for release, availability unknown atm.
RussianSensation
Elite Member
yup supposedly May 4th, clocked at 475/900 12x1 x800Pro and then 2-3 weeks from that point x800xt
GeneralGrievous
Banned
I think ATI's scheme is better, releasing the lower end card first to cater more to mass market. This may also allow them to sell it for a higher price for a short while until the 6800nu is released.
The reason the NV40 is completely different from NV3x is because, frankly, the NV3x design sucked. The R3xx designs, otoh, were solid, so why not use them?
The reason the NV40 is completely different from NV3x is because, frankly, the NV3x design sucked. The R3xx designs, otoh, were solid, so why not use them?
It really shouldn't take them long to develope it. With better yields and a slow clock already on the 6800 Ultra, a 6850 at 450 - 475 with 1200 mhz ram seems doable. I'll be impressed if ATI manages to hit 600 mhz on their 16 piper too, 475 on the pro sounds ambitious even, lets hope they deliver.
why do people think that the R420 will beat the NV40 when it is only 12x1 while the 6800 is 16x1???
6800U: 16*1*400MHz = 6.4GP/s
X800P: 12*1*500MHz = 6.0GP/s
The difference doesn't seem that large, assuming R420 has dual shaders per pipe, like NV40. I really doubt 6800U will stay at 400MHz, though, if there's a 500+MHz 16-pipe (8.0+GP/s) X800XT lurking in the shadows.
I think that the 6800u is a 16x2 pipeline, and the regular 6800 will be a 12x1. Not sure about the ATI card though, I hear it's going to be a 16x1, but once again, not sure.
No thinking required: 6800U is 16x1/32x0, 6800 will be 12x1.
6800U: 16*1*400MHz = 6.4GP/s
X800P: 12*1*500MHz = 6.0GP/s
The difference doesn't seem that large, assuming R420 has dual shaders per pipe, like NV40. I really doubt 6800U will stay at 400MHz, though, if there's a 500+MHz 16-pipe (8.0+GP/s) X800XT lurking in the shadows.
I think that the 6800u is a 16x2 pipeline, and the regular 6800 will be a 12x1. Not sure about the ATI card though, I hear it's going to be a 16x1, but once again, not sure.
No thinking required: 6800U is 16x1/32x0, 6800 will be 12x1.
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