blckgrffn
Diamond Member
He does have scsi 15k drives, etc in his case, and if he wants to be concerned about power, why should you have a right to say otherwise? That just was a really trollish post from someone who should know better and who could have contrbuted in a much more intelligent manner. If he was saying the reason he was steering clear of a prescott because he didn't want the heat in his case, why would anyone disagree? And he has a very valid point about card size - 6800's are huge. If they don't fit, the don't fit. I had to work around my Ultra in my Thermaltake Tsunami and Antec SOHO cases, their size is an issue for many cases, especially once you have many hard drives.
Just spend $225ish on a pro, and don't worry about it
One way to keep heat and power consumption down is to NOT raise the clock speeds, or even lower them if you really want too.
Hey - something to consider would be a 6600 or 6600GT, which would probably better fit into your power/envelope pretty well.
Let us know how you end up,
Nat
Just spend $225ish on a pro, and don't worry about it
One way to keep heat and power consumption down is to NOT raise the clock speeds, or even lower them if you really want too.Hey - something to consider would be a 6600 or 6600GT, which would probably better fit into your power/envelope pretty well.
Let us know how you end up,
Nat
I appreciate your comments Nat,
I did look at the 6600GT and the physical size is almost identical to the AIW 9600XT. This upgrade will not happen immidiately and therefore will allow for the price to continue to decrease on these cards as the new generation cards are released.
I will most likely go with the X800Pro since it outperforms the 6600GT but is the clocked slower than the XT.
I appreciate everyones input.
I did look at the 6600GT and the physical size is almost identical to the AIW 9600XT. This upgrade will not happen immidiately and therefore will allow for the price to continue to decrease on these cards as the new generation cards are released.
I will most likely go with the X800Pro since it outperforms the 6600GT but is the clocked slower than the XT.
I appreciate everyones input.
That is correct I have not ordered it. As you stated earlier the 6800GT size (unfortunately) eliminates it for consideration as it is too large for the space available.
I wouldn't want to purchase the 6800GT and have it not fit. If you are aware of a 6800GT with the physical size of the 6600GT then I will most definately consider it instead of the X800Pro.
As I have seen in the benchmarks and everyone here has stated the 6800GT is a better performer/price compared to the X800Pro.
I wouldn't want to purchase the 6800GT and have it not fit. If you are aware of a 6800GT with the physical size of the 6600GT then I will most definately consider it instead of the X800Pro.
As I have seen in the benchmarks and everyone here has stated the 6800GT is a better performer/price compared to the X800Pro.
Apparently it's not as 6800GTs are much cheaper than X800XLs in AGP flavor.
The stuff you have listed doesn't suck much juice. I ran a 6800GT SLI set with a A64 3800+/HDD/two opticals and a sound card. (not to mention usb components)
There's a time to buy a good case, usually it coincides with when you buy a decent card.
LOL- who told you that? Yeah, the 6800GTs are melting P4s around the world.
You're the only one.
It would be a good idea, the rest of your stuff will limit a 6800GT or X800XL severely.
Honestly, you P4 1.8 is woefully underpowered for todays games. When you think of how much more powerful a $150 A643000+ is, it's hard to justify spending $250- $300 on an AGP card for your rig.
Just the way it is, sorry.
mb
Lifer
- Jun 27, 2004
- 10,233
- 2
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Hmm, are you 100% sure it won't fit? I mean, a 6800GT can fit in a Shuttle case.. what kind do you have? I don't think I saw you mention that..
If it absolutely won't fit, I understand, but I think it would be worth it to measure everything out before you place an order, just to be sure.
Rollo those are good points you make. I may have to talk myself into not upgrading (& save the money) until I can build a new system from the ground up.
My case is a Chieftec (Antec 1080) the reason the 6800 will not fit is due to the fact that I've placed my X15 SCSI drive in the center of the lower drive cage so that it has the full air intake of the 80mm fan for that cage. Unfortunately this interferes with any AGP card that is as large as the 6800GTs are.
My case is a Chieftec (Antec 1080) the reason the 6800 will not fit is due to the fact that I've placed my X15 SCSI drive in the center of the lower drive cage so that it has the full air intake of the 80mm fan for that cage. Unfortunately this interferes with any AGP card that is as large as the 6800GTs are.
What the?
You have this beautiful, full tower case and you can't fit a video card?!?!!?!?!
Dude THROW AWAY your 18GB SCSI HDD, I can't think of any reason it can justify it's existence?
PS I bought my kid a WD 250GB HDD with a 8MB cache last night for $100 AMIR. 18GB is the ways of yesteryear. SCSI or not, 18GB?! I highly doubt you're doing anything fast enough on a P4 1.8 GHz to be thinking "Wow, thank God I have that fast SCSI access- my query just took 40 seconds instead of 45!"
No offense, but I'd be interested to hear any logical justification for a 18GB SCSI on a P4 1.8 that outweighs 6800GT goodness.
LOL well that is true, I don't do anything that warrents the existance of the SCSI in this system now or ever.
The inital reason it was acquired & installed was because as a young/new PC user the most impressive performance increase I ever noticed was the upgrade from 5400rpm HDD to a 7200rpm HDD.
So my logic at that time was that a 15000rpm HDD would be really good for performance. After using it I have realized that the 15000rpm 3.6ms seek time is noticable however the noise and cooling required to house it outweigh the benefits considering my use of the system. I was willing to for go the space for the speed. My OS & programs only take 6.5 GB of the 18GB and everything else goes on the 80GB IDE.
so there you have it after investing in this SCSI monster I feel compelled to leave it in there since the resale value is near zero.
The inital reason it was acquired & installed was because as a young/new PC user the most impressive performance increase I ever noticed was the upgrade from 5400rpm HDD to a 7200rpm HDD.
So my logic at that time was that a 15000rpm HDD would be really good for performance. After using it I have realized that the 15000rpm 3.6ms seek time is noticable however the noise and cooling required to house it outweigh the benefits considering my use of the system. I was willing to for go the space for the speed. My OS & programs only take 6.5 GB of the 18GB and everything else goes on the 80GB IDE.
so there you have it after investing in this SCSI monster I feel compelled to leave it in there since the resale value is near zero.If thats the only reason why you cannot fit a better graphics card, then you should ditch the SCSI drive.
X800P should have the same board size as the XT, and probably the same as the AIW XT. The AGP XL is (much) longer because it has to fit an extra component, the PCIe->AGP bridge chip, as the XL uses a PCIe-native GPU.
It'd be a shame to discount the 6800GT just because of HD placement. Surely you can move the HD up or down a slot to make room? I don't think that'll make much difference in terms of heat. $300 is too much to pay for an X800P considering a 6800GT should be about the same price but be faster. I don't think it draws enough extra power to make a big difference.
Yeah, your CPU will be holding you back, but OC'ed to 2.4GHz (with a corresponding boost in FSB), it should be decent. You could always get the video card and upgrade to an Athlon 64 and an AGP motherboard later, if you feel your CPU is holding you back. The most future-proof upgrade (both in terms of future CPUs you could just swap in and future video cards) would be to get a socket 939 Athlon 64 and a PCIe motherboard, but that'll cost you more.
Here's a power supply calculator if you want to see how much of a PSU you'll need for your (current and future) components.
Way to enter the fray with a troll, Rollo. Not everyone keeps up with hardware as we do.
Edit: And since when has a CPU bottlenecked a frickin' HD? The HD is *always* the slowest component in a case, and his X15 has a seek/access time half that of any current IDE drive short of the Raptors, including your new 250JB. He doesn't need to upgrade or ditch everything in his system just to play games better. I think he should first try a new card with his OC'ed Northwood (just move his HD over), then maybe consider the added expense (and time) of a whole new system.
Edit the Second: Well, if the noise bothers you, just ditch the HD. Speed is nice and all, but not at the expense of comfort. I had a Quantum Fireball that whined at all times and sounded like marbles dropping whenever it did something. It was a huge relief to retire it, and since then I've focused on noise (read: silence) first, speed second. If you want comparable speed at much lower noise levels, get a WD Raptor 74. If you don't do anything that requires SCSI-like seek times, I'd just get a Hitachi, Samsung, or Seagate 160GB+ HD on sale. Like I said, $40-50 after rebates and taxes isn't bad for a quiet, reasonably fast drive to replace all three of your current ones. You can keep one of the old ones and occasionally plug it in to back up important data; otherwise, I'd keep it in the case but disconnected (it'll probably be noisier than a new HD).
If you're interested in a quieter system, give SilentPCReview.com a read.
It'd be a shame to discount the 6800GT just because of HD placement. Surely you can move the HD up or down a slot to make room? I don't think that'll make much difference in terms of heat. $300 is too much to pay for an X800P considering a 6800GT should be about the same price but be faster. I don't think it draws enough extra power to make a big difference.
Yeah, your CPU will be holding you back, but OC'ed to 2.4GHz (with a corresponding boost in FSB), it should be decent. You could always get the video card and upgrade to an Athlon 64 and an AGP motherboard later, if you feel your CPU is holding you back. The most future-proof upgrade (both in terms of future CPUs you could just swap in and future video cards) would be to get a socket 939 Athlon 64 and a PCIe motherboard, but that'll cost you more.
Here's a power supply calculator if you want to see how much of a PSU you'll need for your (current and future) components.
Way to enter the fray with a troll, Rollo. Not everyone keeps up with hardware as we do.
Edit: And since when has a CPU bottlenecked a frickin' HD? The HD is *always* the slowest component in a case, and his X15 has a seek/access time half that of any current IDE drive short of the Raptors, including your new 250JB. He doesn't need to upgrade or ditch everything in his system just to play games better. I think he should first try a new card with his OC'ed Northwood (just move his HD over), then maybe consider the added expense (and time) of a whole new system.
Edit the Second: Well, if the noise bothers you, just ditch the HD. Speed is nice and all, but not at the expense of comfort. I had a Quantum Fireball that whined at all times and sounded like marbles dropping whenever it did something. It was a huge relief to retire it, and since then I've focused on noise (read: silence) first, speed second. If you want comparable speed at much lower noise levels, get a WD Raptor 74. If you don't do anything that requires SCSI-like seek times, I'd just get a Hitachi, Samsung, or Seagate 160GB+ HD on sale. Like I said, $40-50 after rebates and taxes isn't bad for a quiet, reasonably fast drive to replace all three of your current ones. You can keep one of the old ones and occasionally plug it in to back up important data; otherwise, I'd keep it in the case but disconnected (it'll probably be noisier than a new HD).
If you're interested in a quieter system, give SilentPCReview.com a read.
Originally posted by: SGtheArtist
LOL well that is true, I don't do anything that warrents the existance of the SCSI in this system now or ever.
The inital reason it was acquired & installed was because as a young/new PC user the most impressive performance increase I ever noticed was the upgrade from 5400rpm HDD to a 7200rpm HDD.
So my logic at that time was that a 15000rpm HDD would be really good for performance. After using it I have realized that the 15000rpm 3.6ms seek time is noticable however the noise and cooling required to house it outweigh the benefits considering my use of the system. I was willing to for go the space for the speed. My OS & programs only take 6.5 GB of the 18GB and everything else goes on the 80GB IDE.
:shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
I've GOT to come back to "You don't care about this AT ALL".
If you're not willing to pitch a worthless hdd, that you admit you have no use for, to make a HUGE performance upgrade, I think there's nothing left to discuss.
At this point, I think you should buy a PCI Voodoo 5, because that won't get in the way of your 18GB HDD and offers Glide!
I somewhat agree with Rollo althogh he is a bit aggressive and I dont think you intent was to pimp ATI. however I do think you reasons against the 6800gt are a bit flimsy. they are your reasons though and im not gonna put you down for them and im not gonna insult your hardware. no point in insulting anothers hardware.
keep your scsi if you want but just buy a Hd cooler and move it somewhere else. Cheap and easy. No reason to let something that small affect you upgrade. While I understand tempatures being a concern however the 6800gt is not going to melt you whole setup. When you worry about temps shortening the life span of a chip you gotta think about scope. Processors become obselete long before they begin to fail. An overclocked intel cpu might lose a couple years off its (at least)10 year lifespan but who really uses the same cpu for 8 years?
If you really want the best performance for your money then you I think you should listen to what everyone is tell you and get the 6800gt. Refurbs (if your into that ) on newegg can be found for as low as this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814122195R
and if your not; even at full price its better performing and cheaper.
the x800s are good cards, I might get an x800xt AIW myself however if I were you Id not let such small things interfere with my having the best setup I could.
edit: price went up on my link, guess they were selling real fast
keep your scsi if you want but just buy a Hd cooler and move it somewhere else. Cheap and easy. No reason to let something that small affect you upgrade. While I understand tempatures being a concern however the 6800gt is not going to melt you whole setup. When you worry about temps shortening the life span of a chip you gotta think about scope. Processors become obselete long before they begin to fail. An overclocked intel cpu might lose a couple years off its (at least)10 year lifespan but who really uses the same cpu for 8 years?
If you really want the best performance for your money then you I think you should listen to what everyone is tell you and get the 6800gt. Refurbs (if your into that ) on newegg can be found for as low as this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814122195R
and if your not; even at full price its better performing and cheaper.
the x800s are good cards, I might get an x800xt AIW myself however if I were you Id not let such small things interfere with my having the best setup I could.
edit: price went up on my link, guess they were selling real fast
Rollo
I didnt say that the SCSI does not offer any benefits. In fact it does decrease the load time of programs to the point that being on a laptop or my other PC with 7200rpm HDD's is pretty noticable. I would describe it as being "snappy" in its response. Of couse I have not run a newer 100GB+ HDD as an OS HDD the performance maybe equivilant.
Now you do have a point with the Voodoo 5 since it is PCI, I could position it in a lower slot which would remove the SCSI HDD restriction. I'll research it.
LOL j/k
If you feel that I dont care and no long wish to contribute your opinion that is perfectly acceptable. I am greatful for your opinions you've expressed here today.
I didnt say that the SCSI does not offer any benefits. In fact it does decrease the load time of programs to the point that being on a laptop or my other PC with 7200rpm HDD's is pretty noticable. I would describe it as being "snappy" in its response. Of couse I have not run a newer 100GB+ HDD as an OS HDD the performance maybe equivilant.
Now you do have a point with the Voodoo 5 since it is PCI, I could position it in a lower slot which would remove the SCSI HDD restriction. I'll research it.
LOL j/k
If you feel that I dont care and no long wish to contribute your opinion that is perfectly acceptable. I am greatful for your opinions you've expressed here today.
blckgrffn
Diamond Member
Rollo, that case sucks for HD placement with big cards. With my Ultra, I could have all of one hd in the actual HD cage and still hook up both power cables from my Powerstream.
That scsi drive kicks but. Not the best investment I am sure and as you have found out, but I do like my raptor....
I seriously think that a plain jane vanilla 6600 would be your best bet as a great fit for your whole system, try this one.
It is the "turboforce" edition, meaning that the clock speed is really 450 mhz. Fanless, small, and lite on power consumption, won't add any noise, and won't be a big waste when paired with your "lowly" northwood. Frankly, spending anything more that $150 with the rest of the rig being what it is would be going overboard, especially since you alluded to building a completely new rig in the future which would almost certainly be PCIe.
Nat
That scsi drive kicks but. Not the best investment I am sure and as you have found out, but I do like my raptor....
I seriously think that a plain jane vanilla 6600 would be your best bet as a great fit for your whole system, try this one.
It is the "turboforce" edition, meaning that the clock speed is really 450 mhz. Fanless, small, and lite on power consumption, won't add any noise, and won't be a big waste when paired with your "lowly" northwood. Frankly, spending anything more that $150 with the rest of the rig being what it is would be going overboard, especially since you alluded to building a completely new rig in the future which would almost certainly be PCIe.
Nat
blckgrffn
Diamond Member
Oh, so that is what you call running in and barraging the OP for slighting nvidia and claiming this was a pro-ati thread in sheeps clothing even when it was very apparent you didn't read the enitre thread and made an ass of yourself. Way to just "offer your opinion". <--- For Rollo, obviously...
I respect that you know a lot about video cards, especially those of the nvidia variety, but come on. Let's be adult at least a little around here. Keep the sh!t for OT or P&N
I respect that you know a lot about video cards, especially those of the nvidia variety, but come on. Let's be adult at least a little around here. Keep the sh!t for OT or P&N
Pete thanks for the power calculator that is really impressive how detailed they are with the options.
gac009, thats a good point about the heat vs life expectancy vs useful life.
gac009, thats a good point about the heat vs life expectancy vs useful life.
I understand, but you've yet to apologize to the OP for your mistaken assumption. It's only fair, given the courtesy he's shown you.
NP, SG. Keep in mind it's just an estimate, and different power supplies will perform better or worse. Antec is one of the better PSU companies, though, and a 550W rating should be plenty for just about anything you'll throw in there.
SGtheArtist,
I offer you my humble apologies for assuming your values would mirror my own. I wish you luck with the upgrade, and echo the "6600GTs are very short cards and probably well suited to your system" sentiments.
I offer you my humble apologies for assuming your values would mirror my own. I wish you luck with the upgrade, and echo the "6600GTs are very short cards and probably well suited to your system" sentiments.
550 watts will push 6800U SLI- it will for sure push any stuff discussed in this thread. (and then some)
At the time of the initial system build I wanted to make sure I had enough power for everything including the SCSI drive so I went big.
Rollo, I accept and thank you for your apology.
Rollo, I accept and thank you for your apology.
personally, unless you plan on getting a new computer soon, i'd go with the 6800nu just because it has shader model 3.0 and it performs nicely anyways.
if you're lucky you might be able to unlock the pipes on it and make it even better. if not, you should be able to get a nice overclock out of it.
6800nu all the way.
if you're lucky you might be able to unlock the pipes on it and make it even better. if not, you should be able to get a nice overclock out of it.
6800nu all the way.
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