68 c freakin idle degrees!! what the..

[gltyrian]

heck is wrong??

any idea guys? im running abit nv7-133r w/ an athlon 2000+ and a vantec copper cooler... ive also got some as3 on that puppy..

ive put on thermal paste and coolers many times be4... even read thru some site guides just in case i missed something this time..but im putting everything on correctly..these vantec coolers are as easy as it can get in terms of installation... align... clip and clip...

i have noticed however... that when it over heats from a full load... i check the heatsink bottom/cpu core and noticed that it seems like the as3 layer is gone... as if it evaporated w/ juss the lil smudges from the side (i guess from putting a tad too much)... and all thats left are lil marks of silver dust or what nots..

blarg.. what kinda ideas do u guys have?


siao

 

[Chaotic42]

Is the HSF getting very hot? If not, you're not getting good thermal conduction.

If so, maybe the board is wrong.

 

[Mikewarrior2]

What kind of case temp do you have?

Is the system stable?


Mike

 

[Nerdwannabe]

1st, touch the heatsink. If it feels warm then you know you are having contact between the heatsink and the cpu.
You can try to stop the spinning fan to see if heatsink heats up quickly. Try not to stop the fan for more than 10 sec.

2nd, check your motherboard/system temp. If your mb/sys temp is above 40c. You need better case cooling.

3rd, if your room feels like a sauna room, then nothing is wrong with your setup.

 

[mechBgon]

The layer of AS3 should end up so thin it's partly transparent, except where it gets into the etched lettering on the CPU core. Maybe what you're seeing is just a nice thin layer of AS3, with excess pushed off to the edges, which would be good.

Perhaps your Vantec cooler doesn't have enough cooling capacity, or needs more airflow. I realize the copper Vantecs all come stock with high-output fans, so the airflow is probably there, but they have such skimpy, thin bases compared to some of the other copper-based or all-copper units.

 

[gltyrian]

yah..the room is a bit stuffy... but even into the late night its running like mid 60's... as for the heatsink.. its not like im feelin' boiling water or cold metal... its pretty hot..if ya keep it there for more than a few seconds..u'd go ouch...

regarding the system temp... it didnt seem too outstanding to me... but ill check it again 2nite...

thanks for hte info mechBgon... it is really thin..almost transparent.. it was juss a contrast for me cuz i remember the as2's lookin' lil more thick...

regarding system stability... no..its not very stable... when it crashes..it blue screens me and gives me the overheat warning beep...

ill look into again 2nite and see if i can come up w/ any of the signs u guys talkin bout...

thanks

siao

 

[elw00dblues]

Since it is a 2000+, I will assume that dust isn't an issue. It is possible that the AS3 is not working right, so one option is cleaning it all off (as per the instructions that are on Arctic's website) and reapplying to make sure some sort of impurity didn't get in there. Another idea I have is that the CPU was accidentally overclocked, either in the BIOS or with some manual jumper on the mobo (I don't know if you Abit has jumperless like the Asus boards). This might explain the excessive heat you are experiencing, irrespective of ambient temp and HSF installation. That's all I can think of now, good luck!

 

[elw00dblues]

sorry, it won't let me delete this double post... argh

 

[gltyrian]

 

[gltyrian]

hmm..im on that crazy comp rite now... 68c cpu/43c system... seems quite high.. quite high... the as3 could be an issue... it was watery the first time i squeezed it out (been like 3 months since i last used it..) so i cleaned it up and reapplied some more non watery as3... hope the compound isnt bad...

chasis seem pretty well fan'ed... i have a small 40 mm on the mboard chipset... the one on the vid card.. a 92 mm exhuast and 80 mm intake... with an additional blower card that goes under the vid card in the pci slot...

and regarding the OC deal... abit by defaults OC'ed my cpu to 135/67 fsb/agp... but keeps it at standard voltage..so i doubt it'd affect it THAT many degrees...

sigh... gonna think some more...

 

[Mikewarrior2]

umm.... the 43C case temp is the main problem with your setup....

68/43 isn't an overly huge spread with your known motherboard.



Mike

 

[Buz2b]

Just do a simple test; open the case and position a small fan towards the case. Fire it up and run the system. If the temps go down and/or at least get to "acceptable", stable areas, then you know you have an airflow problem in your case. If not, then you know you have to look at your hardware on the MB; CPU, HSF and the MB itself. This is not a foolproof test but it certainly will give you an idea of what it needs.

 

[gltyrian]

the structure of the fan setup doesnt seem wrong at all, and i actually havea lot of hte power cables and ata cables tucked away into the drive bays to avoid flow problems..

yah, it actually got so bad tuesday afternoon that i opened up the case and ran a small 6-7 inch clip fan towards it.. it kept it from hitting 73 c.. and dropped everything by about 4 or 5 c...

only thing leaking airflow that i can think of is a missing floppy drive..so theres a hole there... but that seems pretty isolated... nonetheless, imma plug that up and give htings a try...

siao

 

[Mikewarrior2]

what kind of room temps are you seeing in the room wehre your computer is?



Mike

 

[gltyrian]

i'd say somehwere in the 80's? i dont have an therometer to give u an exact number..sorry but yah..i say around there or so..low mids..

 

[jaybee]

Originally posted by: Mikewarrior2
umm.... the 43C case temp is the main problem with your setup....

68/43 isn't an overly huge spread with your known motherboard.



Mike

Case temp is high, but with a good hsf the cpu shouldn't be 25C over system/case. Check your Vcore from bios or MBM to make sure you aren't sending too much juice. Are you positive there are no voltage mods to the board? That would make it send 1.9v (for example) when you have 1.75v set in the bios. I'm not sure what would be reported though... (from MBM or bios indicator)

I think 25C difference is too much. Either the cpu is putting out too much heat, or your hsf is doing a poor job of getting rid of it for some reason. It sounds like your hs is transferring the heat from the cpu (you say it's hot). What fan do you have on it? Is it on a fan speed-monitored header? What's the rpm count?

jaybee

PS If you are at wit's end you can try turning the fan around on your cpu cooler. I'm not sure if that's possible on your hsf or not, but if it's an option you might as well give it a shot.

 

[gltyrian]

hey jaybee..thanks for the suggestion.. that just reminds me...

i did it get it as a newegg refurb... maybe its a faulty voltage regulator? the abit bios juss gives me the option of more or standard voltage...

but wait..then againt he winbond tells me im running 1.73 volts..which i htink is right..?

the vantec comes w/ a delta running at about 6000 cfm... imma fiddle around some more after work today

 

[Buz2b]

the structure of the fan setup doesnt seem wrong at all

Perhaps I should have explained a bit further. I wasn't necessarily saying that you didn't have things "tucked away" so as not to interfere with airflow. I was talking more about the overall picture of things. That would include (as you mentioned) the cabling, the cfm of air intake vs exhaust and the position of the fans. You can intake as much air as you want but if you don't exhaust the hot air, it does not good. The other side of that is that if you have good exhaust but "questionable" intake amounts then you have no constant supply of cool air.
Since you said you opened the case and installed a "clip fan" and the temps went down a bit, you might conclude that you do have a need for more cool air in your case. You might want to consider upping the intake on your case. You can do that by using a higher cfm rated intake fan or by simply adding another separate intake fan. I am not sure if this would completely solve your troubles, but it is a start in the right direction. I would also look into the voltages as was suggested and you should probably invest in a better HSF. I'm of the opinion that your answer will be a bit of everything and not one item by itself as the culprit.

 

[Mikewarrior2]

Jaybee,

It depends on the motherboard. Since different socket-a boards read temps differently, 25C between CPU and System with one motherboard is normal and with another is too high.

Another reason you can't cross-compare socket-a temps at all.

With the Nv7-133R, 25C delta's are not uncommon, just like with most abit motherboards. Considering that nv7-133R temps are typically 50-60C with 25-35C case temps, having a 68C/43C spread really isn't abnormal for that motherboard.



Mike

 

[r0ck]

i was running XP 2100+ with retail HS and fan....the CPU temp was around ~59/~65 .. idle/load ....and sytem temp was around ~2 ( this was my first time constructing my own system)
..then i took out the retail HS and fan out..and added AX7 and Sunon 80mm fan (blowing away from the cpu) ..i was getting ~54/~59
then i made the Fan blow into the CPU/HS and now i'm getting ~52/~57 ... (case temperature remains the same)

cleaning the CPU and HS was new to me..so i don't believe i did it right..i'll give it another shot in a few days..hopefully i'll get temps in 40-50C..

 

[elw00dblues]

Originally posted by: Buz2b. I would also look into the voltages as was suggested and you should probably invest in a better HSF. I'm of the opinion that your answer will be a bit of everything and not one item by itself as the culprit.

Couldn't agree more. The refurbished mobo is defintely making me suspicious, both of possible problems with the temp sensor on it and with its voltage reporting and/or settings. If you can, try this HSF and chip in another system to isolate your problem a bit. I think your AS3 and heat sink are fine. Also, a Delta will be more than enough for any stock speed CPU, so the prob lies elsewhere defintely.

 

[Buz2b]

Originally posted by: Buz2b. I would also look into the voltages as was suggested and you should probably invest in a better HSF. I'm of the opinion that your answer will be a bit of everything and not one item by itself as the culprit.Couldn't agree more. The refurbished mobo is defintely making me suspicious, both of possible problems with the temp sensor on it and with its voltage reporting and/or settings. If you can, try this HSF and chip in another system to isolate your problem a bit. I think your AS3 and heat sink are fine. Also, a Delta will be more than enough for any stock speed CPU, so the prob lies elsewhere defintely.

I still suspect the HSF; among other contributers. The Vantec, (depending upon the model to an extent) is not a "high performance" HSF in the same mode as a Swifty, Alpha, SK-6, etc. Even so, should he be getting those temps; NO. I repeat my previous assertion; it will most likely be a combo of "all of the above."
Is there any way in heck you can just try the CPU and HSF on a friends board for a bit as elw00dblues mentioned? That would go a long way towards narrowing things down. There will be a certain amount of "different MB's react and report different temps" syndrome, but there should at least be some consistancy to fall back on.
Ready for a "radical" test? Spend a few bucks (minimal) for something like an SVC Golden Gate 40 for $9.99 plus reasonable shipping or even $5.99 for an SVC GC68 w/fan choice and (again) reasonable shipping. Hook one of those up for an inexpensive test. As I said, the Vantec is not "high performance" but may not be the "root of all evil" in your case. Trying one of these inexpensive but solid performers will clear up the picture a bit I would think.

 

[jaybee]

Originally posted by: Mikewarrior2
Jaybee,

It depends on the motherboard. Since different socket-a boards read temps differently, 25C between CPU and System with one motherboard is normal and with another is too high.

Another reason you can't cross-compare socket-a temps at all.

With the Nv7-133R, 25C delta's are not uncommon, just like with most abit motherboards. Considering that nv7-133R temps are typically 50-60C with 25-35C case temps, having a 68C/43C spread really isn't abnormal for that motherboard.



Mike

Good point. Actually I quoted you because when I first wrote the message I agreed, then thought 25C delta was too much and changed my msg. Anyway, you are right that boards will have different temp deltas between socket and system thermistors; it depends on where the second is placed. On my Abit board (KT7a), I run just under 20C delta and I have an underpowered hsf. I'll take your word that 25C is normal for this board.

jaybee

Edit: Shoot, I just realized I'm thinking load temps when gltyrian gave us idle temps. 25C delta at idle? Does that sound right Mike? gltyrian, can you give us some load temps? It probably locks up anytime you load it, but I'd like to see the final numbers.

PS I'm still wondering about the voltage the cpu is getting. Can you set vcore to 1.6v? A quick test to see if it's stable at a lower voltage might be worth the time.

 

[Mikewarrior2]

yeah, but if you consider socket-thermsitor load to idle delta is typically very small (i got 3C spread with my 8kha+), 25C at idle (and is he at true idle, or bios - which isn't idle) really isn't thaaaat obscenely high for that motherboard.

I'm sure that having a 43C case temp is hampering CPU cooling, which is why i still stand by thinking his case temp is destroying his chance at having a reasonable operating "temp".

Airflow may be fine, but shoot, something is wrong with a 43C case temp unless your ambient air temp around the room is 100 or so.

 

[gltyrian]

hey folks,

okay.. this is a sorta update on the situation..

i tinkered w/ some things yesterday and changed the setup a lil bit juss to fiddle w/ things...

i ran a funnel w/ a vantec 80 mm fan yesterday to the heatsink.. cleaned the dust outta my fans, redid the as3 completely (cleaning the whole damt hing w/ rubbing alk and reapplying a thin layer)... closed up the case to ensure good circulation... and i ended up running 45/66c's idle (checked in bios, and just having windows sit there w/ alll background progs closed)... loaded it gets to about 47-48/71 c... stressed it by running a ud agent and some other programs, etc...

the ambient temp in there wasnt too bad cuz it was later at nite... normal room temps i'd say...

in terms of other eq..i do have a kt7 board else where that i could try out.. but that only runs 100 fsb and im not sure if it supports athlon xp... i also have an alpha somewhere... but its missing some of the washers and such, so i havent tinkered aorund w/ it... im guessing i could either go test the alpha out...

juss sorta feelin' the insides of the computer earlier.. the air coming otuta the exhuast didnt seem warm or anything..very normal to me.. the air outta the power supplys exhuast was warm..but i guess thats normal... any way to check hte thermometers on the mboards?

siao