67% support for Presidents plan from those who watched speech

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: eskimospy
/facepalm

If you actually read CNN's writeup on that poll there is no way you could come to that conclusion. Are you having reading comprehension problems again?

It specifically mentions in both the bullet points by the headline and in the second paragraph that it is not representative, and it gives you the best estimate available as to the degree of the oversampling. That's the exact opposite of pushing an agenda, because they are giving you all the information. The actual numbers of support are not important, but that people's opinions were changed most certainly is.

Bottom bullet point in the list, third paragraph in the actual content (not the second like you insist).

You're reaching here. Nowhere is the sample representation presented in the headline or the first introductory paragraph, which are the two items the vast majority of people will read and discuss. It's like all the fine print when you sign up for satellite TV. Yes, the text is there, but the majority of people won't read it because it's not in the place most people will read for details.

Where did I ever say this sample information was not provided? Please, show me where I said that. OCguy has explained the problem with this "poll" and the article quite well, and it's common sense that it is disingenuous, at best.

What are people more than likely to discuss around the water cooler? The eye-catching headline or the details of the third paragraph? This is creative writing and hiding the details at its finest.

Of course, it fits your agenda, so you don't see it.

Ahhh, so where should it have ranked on the 'bullet points' in order to be acceptable to you?

It is not at all like the fine print of a contract when you sign up for TV. The text is the entire purpose of your attention, not a correlary like a contract. The poll, by definition, cannot be disingenuous if it specifically alerts you to its shortcomings and potential sample bias.

The poll itself is not disingenuous, which I never claimed it was, but the method it is being presented is. It's like saying "GM least favorable with car buyers!" as your headline, but then in the third paragraph, you say, "The majority of car buyers sampled are from Japan."

There are also no bullet points on the CNN "blog" article of this poll, which appears to be an exact replica of the "main" article listed on the site. FYI...

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
/facepalm

If you actually read CNN's writeup on that poll there is no way you could come to that conclusion.

Aha! But, but!, if you have a short attention span, poor reading comprehension skills, are prone to skimming instead of reading news, or are lazy or otherwise not a person who pays attention to detail, you could like totally overlook that.

So he had a point. Stupid people might draw the wrong conclusion from the article.

 

[Patranus]

WASHINGTON ? Public disapproval of President Barack Obama's handling of health care has leaped to 52 percent, according to Associated Press-GfK poll that underscores the country's glowering mood as the White House made a renewed pitch for an overhaul.

Just 42 percent approve of the president's work on the high-profile health issue. The survey was released Wednesday before his nationally televised effort to persuade Congress and voters to back his drive to reshape the nation's $2.5 trillion-a-year medical system.

Huh, this one says 54% disapproval with out 42% approval..

The poll found that discontent with Obama's health care effort is not isolated to Republicans. While nearly nine in 10 from the GOP disapproved of his handling of the issue, so did about six in 10 independents and two in 10 Democrats.

Ouch. The approval with Independents sure hurts.

While 77 percent say health care is important to them, 92 percent said the same about the economy, more than any other issue....

Its the economy stupid!!!!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...us_ap_poll_health_care

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: eskimospy
/facepalm

If you actually read CNN's writeup on that poll there is no way you could come to that conclusion.

Aha! But, but!, if you have a short attention span, poor reading comprehension skills, are prone to skimming instead of reading news, or are lazy or otherwise not a person who pays attention to detail, you could like totally overlook that.

So he had a point. Stupid people might draw the wrong conclusion from the article.

So basically people who watch Cable news. So CNN's audience.


They knew exactly what they were doing.

 

[Tom]

There is nothing skewed about this poll or the original post.

Theres is a great deal of evidence in this topic of failed reading comprehension.

 

[Pens1566]

Yep, no one wants to address the 14% change. Figures.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Balt

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITI...bama.speech/index.html

Not only does 67% percent of those who watched the speach support the presidents plan, but 1 in 7 changed their mind after watching the speach

All too easy!

"The sample of speech-watchers in this poll was 45 percent Democratic and 18 percent Republican."

From the very link you provided, at the bottom there, chief.

Shock and awe! Democrats approve of a Democrat president's plan!

:laugh:

Partisan hackery at its finest, both from CNN and the OP. Talk about skewed and worthless polling...

Looks like they acknowledged that pretty early in the article:

The audience for the speech appears to be more Democratic than the U.S. population as a whole. Because of this, the results may favor Obama simply because more Democrats than Republicans tuned into the speech. The poll surveyed the opinions of people who watched Wednesday night's speech, and does not reflect the views of all Americans.

You can't poll people about the effectiveness of a speech if they didn't actually watch it.

Poor RPS, he just can't win lately.

Poor liberals can't stand being called out and caught in more fabrications.
You'd propbably defend a poll showing 100% of supports of Obama approve of his speech and claim that it shows that America as a whole embraces Obama and his views.


If you're going to make a poll your sampling base needs to be broad and diverse, not stacked in one view or the other. If you view Fox polls you might think it's because all Fox viewers are right wingers, but if you go through the comments and message boards, a ton of the people on the Fox News site are liberals looking to defend their position and try to "silence" the right. There are probably more liberals or left leaning people watching Fox and visiting their news site than right/repubs.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITI...bama.speech/index.html

Not only does 67% percent of those who watched the speach support the presidents plan, but 1 in 7 changed their mind after watching the speech

Told ya. He was selling the people that only hear "death panels" and "communism" before. It was a largely populist speech and it worked as such.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
If you're going to make a poll [about a speech] your sampling base needs to be broad and diverse, not stacked in one view or the other.

Even though the audience of the speech was stacked one way or the other...?

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITI...bama.speech/index.html

Not only does 67% percent of those who watched the speach support the presidents plan, but 1 in 7 changed their mind after watching the speach

All too easy!

"The sample of speech-watchers in this poll was 45 percent Democratic and 18 percent Republican."

From the very link you provided, at the bottom there, chief.

Shock and awe! Democrats approve of a Democrat president's plan!

:laugh:

Partisan hackery at its finest, both from CNN and the OP. Talk about skewed and worthless polling...

Err the point of the article was the 14% increase of approval in that sample.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: rudder
Because the people being polled are not concerned with the truth.

Oh a blog! I have one of those too! Twitter source would've been better...

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITI...bama.speech/index.html

Not only does 67% percent of those who watched the speach support the presidents plan, but 1 in 7 changed their mind after watching the speach

All too easy!

"The sample of speech-watchers in this poll was 45 percent Democratic and 18 percent Republican."

From the very link you provided, at the bottom there, chief.

Shock and awe! Democrats approve of a Democrat president's plan!

:laugh:

Partisan hackery at its finest, both from CNN and the OP. Talk about skewed and worthless polling...

Err the point of the article was the 14% increase of approval in that sample.

The sample was strongly skewed in favor of the Democrats. Hence, mostly Democrats changed their approval after a Democrat President's speech and plan.

Reading comprehension is fundamental. I don't know how many times we can spell this out in plain terms.

 

[BassBomb]

How about those who didn't watch it?

 

[shira]

I think it would be quite revealing to do a test of knowledge about American history and American institutions, and correlate those results with attitudes about the health care proposal.

Of course, it would be extremely embarrassing if it were shown (as I'm sure it WOULD be), that the less well-informed you are, the more you oppose the proposal.

Maybe the new Republican motto should be, "Ignorant, and proud of it!"

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITI...bama.speech/index.html

Not only does 67% percent of those who watched the speach support the presidents plan, but 1 in 7 changed their mind after watching the speach

All too easy!

"The sample of speech-watchers in this poll was 45 percent Democratic and 18 percent Republican."

From the very link you provided, at the bottom there, chief.

Shock and awe! Democrats approve of a Democrat president's plan!

:laugh:

Partisan hackery at its finest, both from CNN and the OP. Talk about skewed and worthless polling...

You guys quote right wing Rassmussen polls constantly, I,m just representing the other side And you guys like to forget who won the only poll that counts

I think he forgot that their aren't any republicans anymore. I'm sure it was a challenge to find 18%

 

[Patranus]

Heh - lets wait for the Nelson ratings to come out later today........

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Patranus
Heh - lets wait for the Nelson ratings to come out later today........

I already checked. Willie loved it.

 

[irwincur]

The poll was A LIE plain and simple.

It would be one thing to have a more normal headline and then in the first paragrahp come clean about who made up the poll.

It is another thing to have a sensationalistic headline and then bury the facts about the poll at the bottom. Knowing damn well that 90% of the people that read the article will lose interest half way through or are just looking for pretty charts.

Fact is, this was not a poll, it was asking what Democrats thought of a speech from Obama. Wow. Just looking for that big headline to try to sway those that did not watch the speech.

Media today is reaching the corruption and idiocy levels of the Yellow Press (Jouranlism) leading up to the Spanish American war.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: irwincur
The poll was A LIE plain and simple.

It would be one thing to have a more normal headline and then in the first paragrahp come clean about who made up the poll.

It is another thing to have a sensationalistic headline and then bury the facts about the poll at the bottom. Knowing damn well that 90% of the people that read the article will lose interest half way through or are just looking for pretty charts.

Fact is, this was not a poll, it was asking what Democrats thought of a speech from Obama. Wow. Just looking for that big headline to try to sway those that did not watch the speech.

Media today is reaching the corruption and idiocy levels of the Yellow Press (Jouranlism) leading up to the Spanish American war.

Haha, yeah. Those bastards! I mean it would be one thing to have the headline and then in the first paragraph come clean. Instead these bastards put a bolded bullet point next to the headline and mentioned it no fewer than 3 times. I mean any responsible journalist would have mentioned it at least 4.

 

[Balt]

Originally posted by: irwincur
The poll was A LIE plain and simple.

No, the poll is factual. Just because you don't like the methodology doesn't mean it's a lie. Sorry.

It is another thing to have a sensationalistic headline and then bury the facts about the poll at the bottom.

First sentence of the third paragraphs (and the paragraphs are barely more than a sentence each). Hardly the "bottom".

Knowing damn well that 90% of the people that read the article will lose interest half way through or are just looking for pretty charts.

So now CNN is responsible for people who can't be bothered to read an article that is less than 500 words. Maybe they should start using Newspeak. :roll:

 

[irwincur]

No, the poll is factual. Just because you don't like the methodology doesn't mean it's a lie. Sorry.

OK, factual yes, but very skewed. To the point that actually calling it a poll is a misuse of the English language. The perception usually is that a poll is a fair and consistant outlook.

I threw the A LIE in as sarcasm to yesterdays speech.

First sentence of the third paragraphs (and the paragraphs are barely more than a sentence each). Hardly the "bottom".

The title is very misleading as to the true nature of what may really be factual. This is an injustice. Third paragraph. You are giving the average American too much credit for their attention span. The fact is, it was misleading.

So now CNN is responsible for people who can't be bothered to read an article that is less than 500 words. Maybe they should start using Newspeak.

No, but as a news source, CNN should be aware that it is not their job to skew opinion, just to report the facts. To do anything but hurts their credibility as a new source.

 

[CrackRabbit]

I think the question was posed earlier in the thread, but it bears repeating.
If you are polling people on their reaction to a speech why would you poll people that didn't watch it?

I think the far more telling thing about the poll data being skewed heavily democrat is that republicans have made up their mind and refuse to even listen to what is being presented. This presents a real problem if the republicans want any say on how this bill will shape up. They have to listen to what the other side of the aisle says and compromise or the democrats will likely steamroll them and pass something without any opposition input.
That is the scenario that is probably worst for everyone.

 

[irwincur]

Whether the Republicans want it or not, they have not even been asked to come to the table. Pelosi and Reid have made sure that the bill to be introduced will have as little Republican input as possible. Similar to Cap and Trade, where the Dems all but came out and said like it or not, we made this without asking for any bipartisan input.

Obama BS's about making this bipartisan but there is plenty of documentation stating that he has been stonewalling the Republicans at every turn.

You cannot expect people to vote for your bill if you build it behind closed doors. Honestly, both sides are guilty in this debate, and the loser is the average American.

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
I think the question was posed earlier in the thread, but it bears repeating.
If you are polling people on their reaction to a speech why would you poll people that didn't watch it?

I don't believe RPS has answered this. Unless he's saying we can't have polls on speeches unless everyone watches it.

 

[Fern]

No matter the audience, I would expect Obama to get some sort of 'bump'. He's a good speaker and personable fellow.

But there's a long way to go, and some of Obama's promises like no increase in deficit just won't hold up. Whatever bump there was will soon disappear.

Fern