Info 64MB V-Cache on 5XXX Zen3 Average +15% in Games

[Kedas]

Well we know now how they will bridge the long wait to Zen4 on AM5 Q4 2022.
Production start for V-cache is end this year so too early for Zen4 so this is certainly coming to AM4.
+15% Lisa said is "like an entire architectural generation"

 

[gdansk]

As ever it depends on price and actual independent testing/benchmarks. There isn't a magic window in which an entire product line becomes useless just because you don't want it.

I suspect the performance will be a mixed bag and pricing will be too high. But we'll see.

 

[nicalandia]

OK just a confirmation only 5800X3D would be launched.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/17152/amd-cpus-in-2022-ces

True, and I mean Why would you need something else? the 5950X can deal with 12900K in MT with no problem, the 5800X3D is just the new Gaming King with a Ghz deficit which does not matter since most will just PBO them to extract even more gaming performance

That is Why Intel will be launching the 12900KS which is just a Factory OC to 5.5 throwing efficiency to the trashcan just trying to match a stock 5800X3D

 

[Abwx]

Ryzen 5800X - 3.8/4.7GHz - TDP 105W
Ryzen 5800X3D - 3.4/4.5GHz - TDP 105W

The frequency regression also hit Ryzen-X as it did on Milan-X. There is no free lunch...

The X3D has to be more 105W than the X actually was since it s running at roughly 125W and excessive temps if a stacked cache was to be added.

 

[Hitman928]

OK just a confirmation only 5800X3D would be launched.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/17152/amd-cpus-in-2022-ces

That's disappointing. Sounds like AMD is being cautious and not committing to making chips that cost extra money to make when they're not sure if they will sell better than what they already have. I think they're being naive thinking people might not pay enough extra to have the best all around CPU possible (5950x3d) but it's not my business to run.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I hope we can now agree that Zen3d on desktop missed the window

With only one SKU, who cares when they're releasing it? The issue is: there's only one SKU! Unless that one Chinese leaker is right and that there will be 12c and 16c parts. But if there were going to be higher core-count Zen3D wouldn't AMD have announced those too?

That's disappointing. Sounds like AMD is being cautious and not committing to making chips that cost extra money to make when they're not sure if they will sell better than what they already have. I think they're being naive thinking people might not pay enough extra to have the best all around CPU possible (5950x3d) but it's not my business to run.

Seems more likely that AMD is running short on CCDs that can't bin for Milan-X. So they're stretching the supply of what high-leakage dice they do have by constraining their lineup to 1xCCD CPUs. Everything else will be sold to the server market.

True, and I mean Why would you need something else?

A 16c Zen3D would be the fastest consumer CPU on the market in nearly every conceivable workload. You wouldn't have to compromise. It's exactly what a halo part should be.

 

[nicalandia]

I think they're being naive thinking people might not pay enough extra to have the best all around CPU possible (5950x3d) but it's not my business to run.

They just wanted to release a Halo product that will retake and hold their gaming crown(5800X3D will be the new gaming king when released) while the Zen4 comes back and just curb stomp anything that has been release(5 Ghz all core demon of a ES Chip)

Also these 3D-V Chace chiplets comand a much higher price and profit margin on a Milan-X CPU so they are not going to make much of them for the 5800X3D

 

[gdansk]

That's disappointing. Sounds like AMD is being cautious and not committing to making chips that cost extra money to make when they're not sure if they will sell better than what they already have. I think they're being naive thinking people might not pay enough extra to have the best all around CPU possible (5950x3d) but it's not my business to run.

They're launching it because they said they would. But surely they make more money in Milan X. And currently I expect demand there to be quite good.

Later, when Milan X demand is reduced, other SKU will be less relevant as AM5/Zen4 will be available.

 

[CakeMonster]

I think many people set themselves up for disappointment expecting something that wasn't promised back when we first heard about the V-Cache versions. We weren't promised specific models, specific dates, nor specific prices.

Its always better to buy based on what you know now, except maybe when the next full generation release is known to be imminent.

People with older boards and Z1 or low end Z2 would have been better off getting the Z3 when it was released rather than gambling on something even better that may or may not work with their boards very late in the cycle.

 

[gdansk]

I think many people set themselves up for disappointment expecting something that wasn't promised back when we first heard about the V-Cache versions. We weren't promised specific models, specific dates, nor specific prices.

Its always better to buy based on what you know now, except maybe when the next full generation release is known to be imminent.

People with older boards and Z1 or low end Z2 would have been better off getting the Z3 when it was released rather than gambling on something even better that may or may not work with their boards very late in the cycle.

I'm not convinced of that. Zen3 is cheaper now and didn't get any worse. And if you waited you have more options available, Alder Lake for example.

 

[nicalandia]

I think many people set themselves up for disappointment expecting something that wasn't promised back when we first heard about the V-Cache versions. We weren't promised specific models, specific dates, nor specific prices.

They did mentioned Top SKUs would get the 3D-V Cache and they demoed a 5900X with 3D-V prototype, but had to rethink their priorities because of these other factors.

1. Current Chip Shortage
2. 5800X3D was deemed good enough for retaking the gaming crow and be called the fastest gaming processor, no need for 5900X3D currently most games will not scale with more than 8 cores
3. $ it's Cash, really the 8 core 3D-V Cache chiplets are more profitable on Milan-X like alot more profitable

 

[Joe NYC]

Hyperscalers always get first silicon from AMD. Always. It is no different with V-cache CPUs. It was never expected for any V-cache CPUs to launch before Q122 because the stacking tech didn't hit HVM until 4Q21. Milan-X still hasn't officially launched. Early samples that AMD made while bringing everything together went to key partners. That's it. Even without the supply issues and Milan-X, Ryzen CPUs with V-cache would never have launched before 2022.

V-Cache was not expected by many in Q4.

But it was delivered in Q4 as few of us expected. Hyperscalers get product delivered from AMD about 6 months prior to official "launch", as Ian from Anandtech has observed / commented on in one of his recent videos.

Hyperscalers getting deliveries from roughly beginning of Q4 would place the estimated launch of Milan X at around beginning of Q2 2022.

 

[Justinbaileyman]

I am completely heart broken expecting a 5950x3D. who the heck is gonna upgrade from a 3700x,3800x,5800x to 5800x3d just for 15%??

 

[nicalandia]

I am completely heart broken expecting a 5950x3D. who the heck is gonna upgrade from a 3700x,3800x,5800x to 5800x3d just for 15%??

They did mentioned Top SKUs would get the 3D-V Cache and they demoed a 5900X with 3D-V prototype, but had to rethink their priorities because of these other factors.

1. Current Chip Shortage
2. 5800X3D was deemed good enough for retaking the gaming crow and be called the fastest gaming processor, no need for 5900X3D currently most games will not scale with more than 8 cores
3. $ it's Cash, really the 8 core 3D-V Cache chiplets are more profitable on Milan-X like alot more profitable

 

[Thunder 57]

I am completely heart broken expecting a 5950x3D. who the heck is gonna upgrade from a 3700x,3800x,5800x to 5800x3d just for 15%??

I think you'll be fine. Zen+ people can upgrade too. Zen+/Zen 2 to 5800X3D makes plenty of sense.

What is interesting is why the compared it to a 5900X.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I am completely heart broken expecting a 5950x3D. who the heck is gonna upgrade from a 3700x,3800x,5800x to 5800x3d just for 15%??

If you have a 3800x, it would be substantially more than +15%, and you can keep your motherboard (probably). That crowd will be fine. But as an owner of a 3900x, it's a hard pass.

 

[Hitman928]

Seems more likely that AMD is running short on CCDs that can't bin for Milan-X. So they're stretching the supply of what high-leakage dice they do have by constraining their lineup to 1xCCD CPUs. Everything else will be sold to the server market.

There's no way AMD didn't know this going in, so I don't think that they are finding themselves short of leaky dies to use for Ryzen V-cache. Maybe Milan-X demand caught them by surprise, but I doubt that as well given we've been in this silicon shortage for a while now and even base Milan has seen very excessive demand. Obviously 1CCD versus 2CCD to retake the gaming crown is beneficial for AMD given the silicon constraints, but I just think if they were going to go for a Halo product with limited availability, it would have been smarter to put it on the 5950x and charge $1k. People would have paid it in today's market. Again, just my opinion, I'm not running AMD.

They just wanted to release a Halo product that will retake and hold their gaming crown(5800X3D will be the new gaming king when released) while the Zen4 comes back and just curb stomp anything that has been release(5 Ghz all core demon of a ES Chip)

Also these 3D-V Chace chiplets comand a much higher price and profit margin on a Milan-X CPU so they are not going to make much of them for the 5800X3D

See @DrMrLordX comments and my reply. A true halo product would be a 16 core with V-cache. Now they have a halo gaming product versus an all around king of the hill. Ultimately it doesn't make much difference as Ryzen 3dcache is just a holdover product until Zen4 stomps everything this winter as you mention, I just think a true halo product would have been better. Can't argue with AMD's results though as they have been killing it growth wise. I'm sure the shareholders will be pleased they are pushing as many CCDs into Milan-X as they can.

 

[Makaveli]

I am completely heart broken expecting a 5950x3D. who the heck is gonna upgrade from a 3700x,3800x,5800x to 5800x3d just for 15%??

I would do side grade from a 5800X if the resale value is enough. That boost in performance could mean skipping Zen 4 and going Zen 5.

 

[naukkis]

What is interesting is why the compared it to a 5900X.

As it's their best performing gaming processor before. Also gaming performance increased much more than what they informed before, they said 15% @ iso clocks, now it's 15% average improvement with regressed clock and less cores - improvement at iso clocks have to be way over 20%.

 

[Timorous]

There's no way AMD didn't know this going in, so I don't think that they are finding themselves short of leaky dies to use for Ryzen V-cache. Maybe Milan-X demand caught them by surprise, but I doubt that as well given we've been in this silicon shortage for a while now and even base Milan has seen very excessive demand. Obviously 1CCD versus 2CCD to retake the gaming crown is beneficial for AMD given the silicon constraints, but I just think if they were going to go for a Halo product with limited availability, it would have been smarter to put it on the 5950x and charge $1k. People would have paid it in today's market. Again, just my opinion, I'm not running AMD.



See @DrMrLordX comments and my reply. A true halo product would be a 16 core with V-cache. Now they have a halo gaming product versus an all around king of the hill. Ultimately it doesn't make much difference as Ryzen 3dcache is just a holdover product until Zen4 stomps everything this winter as you mention, I just think a true halo product would have been better. Can't argue with AMD's results though as they have been killing it growth wise. I'm sure the shareholders will be pleased they are pushing as many CCDs into Milan-X as they can.

5900 and 5950 bins are stricter than 5800 bins. The result is that making anything other than 5800X3D means using dies that could be used in Milan-X which is a waste of margin.

 

[Hitman928]

V-Cache was not expected by many in Q4.

But it was delivered in Q4 as few of us expected. Hyperscalers get product delivered from AMD about 6 months prior to official "launch", as Ian from Anandtech has observed / commented on in one of his recent videos.

Hyperscalers getting deliveries from roughly beginning of Q4 would place the estimated launch of Milan X at around beginning of Q2 2022.

I think you were the only once expecting V-cache in Q4 that I have seen and everyone else said it will be a 2022 product and they were right. That AMD would deliver a small number to key server partners / hyperscalers before that was never in question as they are always delivered silicon before it is made available to the broader market as they bring the product to HVM. That's not what we refer to as 'available' though and never have. No one argues that Milan was launched before Ryzen 5000 series even though hyperscalers had it for months before the first Zen3 CPU was for sale.

 

[nicalandia]

comments and my reply. A true halo product would be a 16 core with V-cache.

They will beat the 12900K and anything released at gaming from day one, how is that not a Halo product?

 

[Hitman928]

5900 and 5950 bins are stricter than 5800 bins. The result is that making anything other than 5800X3D means using dies that could be used in Milan-X which is a waste of margin.

Are you saying that 5900x and 5950x bins are less leaky than a 5800x? I'm not 100% sure that's the case given that they have to boost higher than a 5800x in low threaded loads.

 

[nicalandia]

5900 and 5950 bins are stricter than 5800 bins. The result is that making anything other than 5800X3D means using dies that could be used in Milan-X which is a waste of margin.

I agree

 

[Hitman928]

They will beat the 12900K and anything released at gaming from day one, how is that not a Halo product?

It is a halo gaming product. It will still get smashed in a large swath of productivity apps. A 5950x would have been an all around halo product.

 

[Justinbaileyman]

They may beat the 12900k but they aren't beating the 12900ks or kf or extreme what ever intel calls there reply release...