600cc bikes

[beer]

This afternoon I went to a local sport bike club meeting and talked to a lot of people.

The general consensus is that 500s are not adequete to learn on. First of all, they are hard to come by, even used (there are only a few listed on cycletrader and none within 100 miles that are not new) and the Suzuki lacks power and styling and the Kawasaki lacks reliabilty. According to them, and in direct disagreement with the members on this board, a 500 will quickly inspire confidence but will be quickly outgrown and you will lose a good percentage of its value just by owning it.

I know quite a bit about 600s, but not as much as I do about 500s. What I'm kinda looking for is a 'ranking' of power. An otherwise uninspired 600 will not cost much more than a 500 but give me more torque and more growing room. Others, like an R6 or a CBR600F4i, aren't even in the same class.

Between your four Japanese makers, here is what I have figured out:

Lowest power/cost:

Katana 600
YZF600
ZX6-ZX6r
CBR600F4i
R6
GSXR600

Is that correct? Katana's seem to be very common and would end up costing me less than a thousand more than a Ninja 500 or GS500 for the same used timeframe. Plus, if I don't have to replace my bike within a year, the savings are immediate. Insurance rates are not that much different, I will not be carrying collision (only comprehensive and liability). The guys at the club said they don't really 'hang' with the other 600s in terms of maneuverability or speed, but it would be a much better investment than a 500.

What do riders here think?

 

[mithrandir2001]

Hmm, I thought you were supposed to learn on something even less powerful than a 500, like a 250. 600 sounds too fast and scary for a beginner.

 

[AzNmAnJLH]

i want a r6 or a gsx600

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

500cc too slow? I rode a Hero Honda 2-stroke 100cc commuter bike as the first bike I ever drove, and I was pretty scared to raise it. Of course, I was on bumpy roads and it was my first time riding a motorcycle.

The bike gets around 77km to a liter so its pretty damn good.

 

[beer]

Originally posted by: mithrandir2001
Hmm, I thought you were supposed to learn on something even less powerful than a 500, like a 250. 600 sounds too fast and scary for a beginner.

And keep a 250 at a 10K RPM in sixth gear to cruise at 70?

No thank you.

I ruled a 250 out a long time ago. I was content with a 500 until I talked to these riders today, who sported everything from a Katana 600s to R1s (no Busas though). Of the seven guys that I talked to, two of them learned on 500s. Both got new bikes within six months. Those that rode 600s felt no need to step up for a long time. Some were still on their first bike.

 

[mithrandir2001]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
500cc too slow? I rode a Hero Honda 2-stroke 100cc commuter bike as the first bike I ever drove, and I was pretty scared to raise it. Of course, I was on bumpy roads and it was my first time riding a motorcycle.

The bike gets around 77km to a liter so its pretty damn good.

Umm, that's about 181mpg. Amazing. You probably lose more fuel from evaporation when the bike sits than from riding it.

 

[beer]

Originally posted by: AzNmAnJLH
i want a r6 or a gsx600

Both those are higher end 600s. More than I want to pay, and more bike than I can handle.

GSXRs are supersport bikes....even suzuki says, 'DESIGNED FOR EXPERIENCED RIDERS ONLY' on their web site!

 

[beer]

Originally posted by: mithrandir2001

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
500cc too slow? I rode a Hero Honda 2-stroke 100cc commuter bike as the first bike I ever drove, and I was pretty scared to raise it. Of course, I was on bumpy roads and it was my first time riding a motorcycle.

The bike gets around 77km to a liter so its pretty damn good.

Umm, that's about 181mpg. Amazing. You probably lose more fuel from evaporation when the bike sits than from riding it.

And it was a two-stroke. They don't make those anymore for a lot of reasons, not the least of which was reliability and emissions. They're lawnmower or chainsaw engines. And get about 2.5x the power of a 4 stroke of same displacement.

 

[The Stigenator]

You know what some guys will say start with 600. Many of them have forgotten how it is to be on a 500. Any case each person has his or her learning curve.

You can add Bandit 600 and Ducati 620ie in there too if you want.

The bandit is a much more "docile" bike than the Katana. Katana is a sports bike and its really top heavy. I have known people who have dropped the katana within 5 minutes of getting out of the dealer.

I will still stick by my 500 cc engine in my GS. I can tear up teh tracks and keep up with R6 riders no problems. While they might go a bit faster its not like the bike isnt that much more uncomfortable.

Its upto you on if you want to go 600cc and disobey the fact that most newbies with a 600cc (despite how much ever they say they will be extra careful and ride carefully) will drop it within the first week or so of riding.

If you want a 600 cc bike look into the SV650.. its a lowerpowered bike than all those you quote. Katana, YZF600,CBRF4i,R6,GSXR600..

If your going to get a 600cc class bike and dead on want one get the SV650 or the SV650S.. Atleast with that you will stay alive and the power "hungry" that your so afraid a 500cc will not have enough power will be more than safisfactory in the SV650.

 

[mithrandir2001]

Originally posted by: Elemental007

Originally posted by: mithrandir2001
Hmm, I thought you were supposed to learn on something even less powerful than a 500, like a 250. 600 sounds too fast and scary for a beginner.

And keep a 250 at a 10K RPM in sixth gear to cruise at 70?

No thank you.

I ruled a 250 out a long time ago. I was content with a 500 until I talked to these riders today, who sported everything from a Katana 600s to R1s (no Busas though). Of the seven guys that I talked to, two of them learned on 500s. Both got new bikes within six months. Those that rode 600s felt no need to step up for a long time. Some were still on their first bike.

I guess it depends on what you want. When I get my first bike, I don't plan to take it on the interstate...where else would I need to maintain a constant 70mph? Look at the Kawasaki Ninja 250: it does over 100mph on 248cc and a new one costs, what, under $4000? Find a used one, play with it a bit and then figure out what your "real" bike should be....if you decide to get another bike, that is.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

77km per liter is nothing...thats on a bike that is 10 years old. The new ones do around 85km per liter and one manufacture is planning on releasing a scooter/bike hybrid thta does 100km to a liter.

 

[The Stigenator]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
500cc too slow? I rode a Hero Honda 2-stroke 100cc commuter bike as the first bike I ever drove, and I was pretty scared to raise it. Of course, I was on bumpy roads and it was my first time riding a motorcycle.

The bike gets around 77km to a liter so its pretty damn good.

The Hero Honda is a JOKE.. its TOoo freaking slow for me (plus the reverse up shift was cookie). Its got the worst pickup for a 4 Stroke bike. Try the Kawasaki 4S.. then you will know what a 100cc bike that gives over 80 km per liter feels like with some added power.

Yeah those 100 cc bikes were cool. I loved my friends Kawasaki 4S Champion.. mmmm.. it was solid though.. much nicer than the Hero Honda. Ofcourse nothing beats the RawPower of the RX100.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Since the Hero Honda is the only bike I drove there, I can't compare its speed to anything else. It is the most popular bike since its super-reliable and gets great mileage. The new LML Freedom bikes are pretty good..12bhp of raw power!

The new cruiser bikes are getting popular in India now, Bajaj/Kawasaki Elimantor is sweet...too bad its bloody expensive.

You know what else is expensive in India? A Hynduai Sonata..if you do the cost conversion, it costs around $40k CDN!!! Its marketed as a pure luxury car there...even comes with a hood elmblem...but I gotta admit..it does look classy..

 

[RU482]

I like fat chicks on 50cc bikes

 

[The Stigenator]

I havent ridden teh eminator, but I rode teh Hero Honda CBZ in calcutta. Nice bike lousy place to ride. I like the auto scooters like kinetic honda and tvs scooty.. sweet bikes. the kinetic honda is too light up front so it does fish tail in wet weather (from experience). I like the Scooty cause my friend had it. It was sexy looking and quite powerful for one person. Two person it didnt do that bad.. it was a sweet bike.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Heh...I fell off a TVS Scooty...only the rear brakes worked and I wasn't accustomed to riding the Scooty either. So I decided to twist the throttle all the way on gravel..and then noticed a bump..so I slammed the brakes...the rear end slide and I fell. My cousin (who is female and younger to me) yelled at me (since its her bike and she can drive it damn well)...luckily no damage to the scooter...only to my hands and ankle! She was smart to not let me ride it on the road..only on the empty ground.

 

[cmv]

Check out the rec.motorcycles FAQ. You should consider buying a cheaper used bike so you don't have to deal with the dreaded "whoops I dropped my plastic bike in a parking lot and now my insurance has to pay $2,500 to fix some cracked plastic" or a loss of resale value if the motorcyles just aren't for you...

Don't forget to budget for safety gear and definately check out the Motorcycle Safety Foundation class (hint: you can knock some money off your insurance plus not have to take the DMV driving test if you pass the class).

I don't have bike yet but my plan is to take the MSF class next spring (or this fall if I can get in anywhere) and then buy a bike from this list (used of course):

Kawasaki KLR 650
Honda Nighthawk 650/700
Kawasaki Ninja 500 / EX 500

Or something else that is cheap and has minimal plastic.

Good luck! (oh, and the rec.motorcycles group is pretty entertaining if you're bored)

edit: Someone mentioned the Kawasaki Ninja 250 above - I agree it is a good place to start. I'm too big for it but if you fit it you'll have a blast! It is an awesome ride because it is a fast 250 and, as a beginner, you can drive it like you stole it without killing yourself .

 

[The Stigenator]

that scooty has a kick in it.. its a girly bike but still its an awesome bike. The brakes arent the best though.. but they do the job.

edit: your not the only one to drop a scooty. My best friend amar had a scooty. Within the first week quite a few people dropped it.. the bike's power is quite underestimated despite its looks.

i know when divya got hers, her brother crashed it into the driveway gate before he knew it.. damn that was funny..

 

[SSP]

even comes with a hood elmblem...but I gotta admit..it does look classy..

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Hyundai... classy... BUAHAHAH!

 

[overturfa]

listen not to any nay-sayers, I speak from experience.

I bought one of the 500cc ninja's to start out on. I outgrew it within 2 months. you've got the right idea to start on a 600. Not too much difference weight/handling wise. Actually a full blown sport bike will way out-handle a wannabe.

I have a ZX6R now, and it's plenty. I don't anticipate changing bikes for a while. If I do I'll go the cruiser route next.

In my opinion (having been in your shoes) you might as well save your money and get a 600+ bike in the first place.

Cheers!

edit: And definately take the MSF class and don't waste your money on a new bike. Pick one up a year or two old and save a few thousand bones.

 

[andrewagibson]

you are all morons, 500cc isnt too big to start on, start on a busa for your first bike if you want as long as you arent a dumbass, and dont waste your time/money taking MSF course unless you need to to get your license like in california if your under 21, they teach you common sense bullshit that you'll learn yourself

 

[The Stigenator]

Originally posted by: andrewagibson
you are all morons, 500cc isnt too big to start on, start on a busa for your first bike if you want as long as you arent a dumbass, and dont waste your time/money taking MSF course unless you need to to get your license like in california if your under 21, they teach you common sense bullshit that you'll learn yourself

I have been riding for a lot longer than you think and mind you I learnt something in the MSF course. WHich otherwise I would have learnt by accident. I knew most of the stuff but the fact ist that the course gave me street stragties..

Evidently your one of the squids out there in shorts and tshirt and no riding experience. In CA you do need MSF if your under 21, but its also true for other states.

Anyway I am not going to argue with newbies on why a 1.3 liter hayabusa is a good first bike.

 

[The Stigenator]

Originally posted by: overturfa
listen not to any nay-sayers, I speak from experience.

I bought one of the 500cc ninja's to start out on. I outgrew it within 2 months. you've got the right idea to start on a 600. Not too much difference weight/handling wise. Actually a full blown sport bike will way out-handle a wannabe.

I have a ZX6R now, and it's plenty. I don't anticipate changing bikes for a while. If I do I'll go the cruiser route next.

In my opinion (having been in your shoes) you might as well save your money and get a 600+ bike in the first place.

Cheers!

edit: And definately take the MSF class and don't waste your money on a new bike. Pick one up a year or two old and save a few thousand bones.

Actually I can keep up with Supersports up teh canyon and I dont feel the need to upgrade on my GS. I understand people are different, but frankly you cant learn to ride a bike in 2 months. I see so many bikes at our local bike shops that are 250-500 cc with less than 100 miles on teh clock. You expect me to believe you can ride a 600cc supersport with only 100 miles of riding experience. Riding in a straight line is easy, riding curves is where the trick is.

I am glad you got a ZXR6 (its the least powerful of the 600cc supersports due to its weight) but the fact is that that its still a supersport. I just hope you ride safe and you ride smart.

TGG

PS: I am glad you added the MSF comment.. its good you support it.. cause I do.
Getting a old bike is a way to go. I went with a new one but looking back I should have got an older one. WHy? well not because I dropped it once (it was due to an engine fault) but because I took so long to break the freaking thing in. Break in was the most painful for me.

 

[mjquilly]

Originally posted by: mithrandir2001

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
500cc too slow? I rode a Hero Honda 2-stroke 100cc commuter bike as the first bike I ever drove, and I was pretty scared to raise it. Of course, I was on bumpy roads and it was my first time riding a motorcycle.

The bike gets around 77km to a liter so its pretty damn good.

Umm, that's about 181mpg. Amazing. You probably lose more fuel from evaporation when the bike sits than from riding it.

errr, actually that's more like 48 mpg.

 

[bmacd]

Originally posted by: The_good_guy

Originally posted by: overturfa
listen not to any nay-sayers, I speak from experience.

I bought one of the 500cc ninja's to start out on. I outgrew it within 2 months. you've got the right idea to start on a 600. Not too much difference weight/handling wise. Actually a full blown sport bike will way out-handle a wannabe.

I have a ZX6R now, and it's plenty. I don't anticipate changing bikes for a while. If I do I'll go the cruiser route next.

In my opinion (having been in your shoes) you might as well save your money and get a 600+ bike in the first place.

Cheers!

edit: And definately take the MSF class and don't waste your money on a new bike. Pick one up a year or two old and save a few thousand bones.

Actually I can keep up with Supersports up teh canyon and I dont feel the need to upgrade on my GS. I understand people are different, but frankly you cant learn to ride a bike in 2 months. I see so many bikes at our local bike shops that are 250-500 cc with less than 100 miles on teh clock. You expect me to believe you can ride a 600cc supersport with only 100 miles of riding experience. Riding in a straight line is easy, riding curves is where the trick is.

I am glad you got a ZXR6 (its the least powerful of the 600cc supersports due to its weight) but the fact is that that its still a supersport. I just hope you ride safe and you ride smart.

TGG

PS: I am glad you added the MSF comment.. its good you support it.. cause I do.
Getting a old bike is a way to go. I went with a new one but looking back I should have got an older one. WHy? well not because I dropped it once (it was due to an engine fault) but because I took so long to break the freaking thing in. Break in was the most painful for me.

Breaking a bike in isn't bad. For my new gsxr 600, you just have to keep it below 7000rpm which isn't bad at all. I already feel like i've outgrown it and i've had it for three days. I wish i would have gotten the Katana 750 like i originally intended on, but things happened and i got a new gixxer instead.

-=bmacd=-