600 dollar Hammer? Hold my cup

[Genx87]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...tal-coffee-mugs-raising-questions/1729890002/

Remember though, the military is being starved to death! Or in this case dehydrated to death!
Feel like this kind of fleecing should be a criminal offense.

 

[IronWing]

The taxpayers have been mugged.

 

[Vic]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...tal-coffee-mugs-raising-questions/1729890002/

Remember though, the military is being starved to death! Or in this case dehydrated to death!
Feel like this kind of fleecing should be a criminal offense.

Why do you hate freedom?


/s

 

[soulcougher73]

Time to purge our government and start over

 

[zinfamous]

As absurd as this all is, I found this bit hilariously more absurd:

In her response, Wilson explained the cups are designed for use with a 34-year-old fleet, and that decreased parts production along with increased material prices had nearly doubled the cup's price from $693 in 2016 to $1,280 in 2018.

LoL, so these cups are 2x more expensive over two years because of Trump's little trade war?

 

[SlowSpyder]

Insulated mugs will keep coffee warm for a long time, surprised they need to spend this kind of money on something like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdmH47VNiS4&t=1m0s

 

[Homerboy]

When you're given what basically amounts to a blank check to spend every single year, $326,785 really doesn't seem like that much money.
The amount we spend on our military is sickening.

 

[Exterous]

As absurd as this all is, I found this bit hilariously more absurd:



LoL, so these cups are 2x more expensive over two years because of Trump's little trade war?

My assumption is more that a certain spec was required for the cups and the AF was the sole purchaser of the cups from a sole manufacturer. The airforce said it would no longer buy the cups or significantly scaled down its orders starting in 2016 so the manufacturer - having no other customer - let go or reassigned workers and potentially the mfg equipment. The Airforce then came back with small, one off orders so people\equipment needed to be rehired\tasked but without the volume necessary to provide notable cost savings.

Edit: Looks like I was on the right track:

And because replacement parts for the cup are no longer made, the Air Force has had to order a whole new cup when the handle breaks.

Wilson told Grassley that this cup is specially manufactured to plug into aircraft systems, and because it connects to the aircraft, the replacements need to be certified as airworthy by the FAA.

So the FAA would need to certify a replacement for use on any of the planes the AF wants to use them on. I'm not sure how much that costs but my guess is that it was cheaper to keep buying the cups until 2016 when prices started increasing. I would also guess the new orders came in small batches so it took some time to realize the full cost vs FAA certification. Glad to see they are now able to 3D print replacement parts but I am curious if the FAA has\had to be involved in that process

 

[shortylickens]

For those of us who served: The Air Force is famous for pissing away money on dumb shit then asking for bigger budgets to actually do their job.

The Navy is not immune either. I seem to recall a story about 600 dollar toilet seats.

 

[pauldun170]

In July, it was reported that the Air Force had been billed $10,000 for a replacement toilet-seat cover for the C-5 Galaxy cargo plane.

A C5 galaxy was designed in the mid 60's.
It

"You'll think, 'There's no way it costs that, No, it doesn't, but you're asking a company to produce it and they're [busy] producing something else.”

In the interview, Roper explained that the Air Force occasionally needs parts that are no longer produced by the manufacturers that once signed licensing agreements with the Pentagon. Even if the company no longer makes a specific part, the Air Force still had to go through that company because of intellectual property rights.

Nowadays....

The toilet seat covers on the C-5 Galaxy is no longer in production so the government needed to purchase customized ones, the report said. The government purchased the covers three times and as recent as last year, the report said.

“We are not now, nor will we in the future buy that aircraft part at that price, because we can now do so more cheaply using 3-D printing,” a spokesman told the paper. “Using this new process allows us to make parts that are no longer in production and is driving major cost savings.”

In short, toilet seats for military aircraft are need to meet harsh requirements. The "$10,000" toilet seat story was already explained. The equipment to make that seat is long gone. The specs are still the same. If someone can go out and have a custom toilet seat makers using the original specs for cheaper without violating US patent law then feel free to pipe in.

NOw on to the Coffee cups


Whats that thing on the side? How come I can't buy this at Bed Bath and Beyond? Where can one find the original contract that resulted in this buy? anyone have the link?

So this is a custom mug that is a mug with a built in heating element that can survive life on a tanker being handled by hungover kids who beat the crap out of everything.

According to Grazier, the root of the problem is intellectual property rights. When the Pentagon makes deals with defense contractors, it rarely demands data rights, allowing contractors to charge heavily for repair and replacement on the systems down the road.

BUT WAIT

Months ago, as noted EVERYWHERE the military has already moved on to 3-d printing replacement parts for a fraction of the cost.

https://www.military.com/defensetec...ups-could-last-longer-thanks-3d-printing.html

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/...that-mug-of-joe-its-worth-its-weight-in-gold/
https://www.popularmechanics.com/mi...3d-printing-coffee-cup-handles-to-save-money/



So Grassley read a FoxNews report but never bother to read the last frucking line that said the Airforce has already moved on to 3-d printing these parts?
Grassley never bother to read every damn report that already went through the issues around design requirements, patent laws how to handle the replacement of parts no longer in production?


Is this one of those b.s "make a lot of noise" crap these idiots do around midterms to make it seem like they give a shit about taxpayer money?
Does Grassely not understand how small volume contracts work? Does he not understand that parts available at home depot or walmart don't meet the specs required on stuff that has to operate under extreme conditions? Does he not keep track of efforts within the armed service to reduce costs? Does he not understand how DoD acquisition works

https://www.govexec.com/federal-news/1998/12/the-myth-of-the-600-hammer/5271/

How many times are these nitwits going to break out

 

[pauldun170]

How much would a limited run of self heating coffee mugs cost that would be suitable for use on an aircraft?
They would have to meet some specific requirements considering the environment.
what's out there today seem to run between $50 to $150 bucks but I'm not sure I'd want those on tankers aircraft (fire\durabilty\spills in the face of turbulence or "damage caused by fuckery")

So a custom design would be required across a limited run.
costs cover the whole kaboodle from R&D to manufacturer and that is split up over the production run. Cost per mug is total cost of program( from R&D to manufacture of dies to documentation to legal) divided by units ordered.

The quest is not the cost per mug.
The question is why did they request a self heating mug in the first place?
Sure Airmen deserve hot coffee at all times but why can't they just get up and walk to the coffee maker and hope the coffee was freshly made? Why can't they just microwave their cup when it gets cold?
I know, the obvious answer is that when you are on duty, sometime you can't just get up and make another cup or reheat the coffee.


It's at this point where you truly understand why other services crack jokes about the airforce.
Army has actual forms that you need to fill out in order to approve Air force jokes

 

[KMFJD]

this is why you can't afford.....

 

[UglyCasanova]

Somebody needs to be fired.

 

[Genx87]

A C5 galaxy was designed in the mid 60's.
It






Nowadays....


In short, toilet seats for military aircraft are need to meet harsh requirements. The "$10,000" toilet seat story was already explained. The equipment to make that seat is long gone. The specs are still the same. If someone can go out and have a custom toilet seat makers using the original specs for cheaper without violating US patent law then feel free to pipe in.

NOw on to the Coffee cups


Whats that thing on the side? How come I can't buy this at Bed Bath and Beyond? Where can one find the original contract that resulted in this buy? anyone have the link?

So this is a custom mug that is a mug with a built in heating element that can survive life on a tanker being handled by hungover kids who beat the crap out of everything.




BUT WAIT

Months ago, as noted EVERYWHERE the military has already moved on to 3-d printing replacement parts for a fraction of the cost.

https://www.military.com/defensetec...ups-could-last-longer-thanks-3d-printing.html

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/...that-mug-of-joe-its-worth-its-weight-in-gold/
https://www.popularmechanics.com/mi...3d-printing-coffee-cup-handles-to-save-money/



So Grassley read a FoxNews report but never bother to read the last frucking line that said the Airforce has already moved on to 3-d printing these parts?
Grassley never bother to read every damn report that already went through the issues around design requirements, patent laws how to handle the replacement of parts no longer in production?


Is this one of those b.s "make a lot of noise" crap these idiots do around midterms to make it seem like they give a shit about taxpayer money?
Does Grassely not understand how small volume contracts work? Does he not understand that parts available at home depot or walmart don't meet the specs required on stuff that has to operate under extreme conditions? Does he not keep track of efforts within the armed service to reduce costs? Does he not understand how DoD acquisition works

https://www.govexec.com/federal-news/1998/12/the-myth-of-the-600-hammer/5271/

How many times are these nitwits going to break out

Who cares where the report came from. It is a ridiculous example of govt waste. 693 or 1280 dollars. These things were priced at a ridiculous level. It is a fucking thermos for crying out loud. Not a piece of essential equipment running a weapons system.

 

[pauldun170]

Who cares where the report came from. It is a ridiculous example of govt waste. 693 or 1280 dollars. These things were priced at a ridiculous level. It is a fucking thermos for crying out loud. Not a piece of essential equipment running a weapons system.

It's not a thermos.
If the airforce was paying $683 for a thermos then that would be another issue.

this is a little portable kettle\mug hybrid that plugs into the electrical system of the aircraft.

Are you saying service members are should not have hot coffee on an 8 hour flight?
When did you start hating the troops? Was it slow or was this a recent thing?

 

[paperfist]

Is this a repost from 1980?!??!

 

[IronWing]

Is this a repost from 1980?!??!

The 1980s are now calling to ask for their wasteful defense spending back.

 

[hal2kilo]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...tal-coffee-mugs-raising-questions/1729890002/

Remember though, the military is being starved to death! Or in this case dehydrated to death!
Feel like this kind of fleecing should be a criminal offense.

Figures. When the Air Force builds a base, they put in all the creature comforts you can imagine, including golf courses. When that money earmarked for the whole base gets spent, they then ask for more money so they can build the airfield. Just ask people from other services. Navy actually treats their people like shit compared to the Air Force but they try to stay in budget. How can anybody seriously accept the explanation and excuse is beyond me. Military is great a justifying all kinds of completely wasteful spending. Just look at a basically Air Force acquisition, the F-35, that will tell you everything about how that branch of service operates.

 

[Exterous]

this is a little portable kettle\mug hybrid that plugs into the electrical system of the aircraft.

Don't they output at 28 volts too?

 

[Genx87]

Figures. When the Air Force builds a base, they put in all the creature comforts you can imagine, including golf courses. When that money earmarked for the whole base gets spent, they then ask for more money so they can build the airfield. Just ask people from other services. Navy actually treats their people like shit compared to the Air Force but they try to stay in budget. How can anybody seriously accept the explanation and excuse is beyond me. Military is great a justifying all kinds of completely wasteful spending. Just look at a basically Air Force acquisition, the F-35, that will tell you everything about how that branch of service operates.

Apparently personal kettles are worthy of 1280 dollar per cup to some. What a deal. Bringing a Thermos full of hot coffee totally escapes the air force.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Drink coffee cold. Buncha snowflakes

 

[brycejones]

Imagine that a shit ton of context left out of the story raging about the spending.....

Given the C-5 fleet size this is a pimple on a mite's ass that's on a flea's back that's attached to a Newfoundland's ass in the scheme of the Pentagon budget. We'll get all enraged about this and ignore the larger issue of how major procurement programs are run in the first place and the military's inability to define requirements and then actually stick to them.

 

[sandorski]

Coulda bought a Keurig or even an all brass Italian made espresso machine at a fraction of the cost. Military Industrial Complex strikes again, because some Senator needs Defence Department jobs.

 

[mizzou]

This has to be one of those Marine vs Air Force memes

 

[Genx87]

Imagine that a shit ton of context left out of the story raging about the spending.....

Given the C-5 fleet size this is a pimple on a mite's ass that's on a flea's back that's attached to a Newfoundland's ass in the scheme of the Pentagon budget. We'll get all enraged about this and ignore the larger issue of how major procurement programs are run in the first place and the military's inability to define requirements and then actually stick to them.

Of course this is small potatoes. But if you think this and the procurement process for new weapons systems arent related. Not sure what to tell you. It is the same mentality that causes a 1280 dollar cup and a fighter program to run hundreds of billions over budget and years behind.