6 hours in and the lies begin

[Siddhartha]

Fixed.

Same exact bullshit from both parties. Just like Bush jr jr (Obama), new boss same as the old boss.

It depends on what you want them to do. What is your agenda?

 

[Lemon law]

I think there is too little understanding of why career politicians act as they do. They may have all the initial good intentions, but to get elected and more importantly keep getting re elected, they need to raise a lot of money to pay for TV ads and all the other aspects of a modern political campaign.

And since we the sheeple they are supposed to represent don't come up with the money to pay, career politicians represent the special interests who do pay for their re elections.

The main differences between the Democrats and the Republicans is which special interests they tend to represent.

 

[Phokus]

Don't worry Democrats will say its all Bush's fault.

Actually most of our problems can be traced back to Reagan. Bush is just a symptom of the disease.

 

[trenchfoot]

Actually most of our problems can be traced back to Reagan. Bush is just a symptom of the disease.

IMO, Reagan, yes, indirectly, but more so, it was his wife Nancy and her infallible astrologer that did us in.

 

[Modular]

And since we the sheeple they are supposed to represent don't come up with the money to pay, career politicians represent the special interests who do pay for their re elections.

The main differences between the Democrats and the Republicans is which special interests they tend to represent.

We don't come up with the money to pay for their election directly, but we sure as hell come up with the money that funds the companies and special interest groups that do. Not only that, but it's our money that pays for all the bogus things that they try to pass in office.

 

[Craig234]

A politician's primary cause is to get himself more power.

No, it's not. That's an ignoramus's opinion.

It's to set the policies, within the scope of government, for society - to serve some interests.

That might be to serve 'the public' and cure cancer, it might be to serve the powerful and limit labor rights to shift the balance of power and profit to the top.

The issue of the scope of government - more powerful, less powerful - is used misleadingly to restrict the power of the public.

Private power is nice for those who have it, not so much for those who don't. In the extreme, it means a few with masses their slaves.

Ultimately, democratic government is a threat to those who have the most power, because it empowers the people to restrict how much they can be enslaved, in theory.

While the powerful might be able to use their power to influence the government and elections for their interests, and they generally are, it's still a threat compared to private power. They can't just tell the people 'give up the system that gives you power to stand up to us'. The people have no reason to do that and plenty of reason not to.

So the only answer for the powerful is to persuade the people the government is more their enemy than their tool for protection against the powerful. This is why massive resources are invested in persuading the people of just that - the one way for the powerful to defeat democracy.

Every person who 'hates government' rather than 'hates the current government and wants to fix it' is a victory for the powerful and a defeat for democracy.

Many tools are used - propaganda the government is bad, the very fact that the powerful do have great influence and government serves them, 'starving the beast' by crippling it with debt, making people feel guilty for having the government protect them from the rich, making people hate those below them economically and identify with the powerful instead, and many more.

Politicians come in a variety of stripes and flavors, almost as varied as the public itself; of course nearly all 'like to be elected', except those so so corrupt they have cushy rewards waiting out of office, or those who simply no longer want to be in office, but it's not like they're little kings. Generally the issue has little to do with their personal rewards, a pittance, and a lot to do with who they serve. Corporations can spend $100,000 in elections and get $1 billion in policy benefits.

Blaming the politicians is like blaming the Nazi soldier and not mentioning Hitler.

I've often quoted, "Politicians have to LOOK good to the voters, and DO good for the donors." But they're not 'equally corrupt', some are a lot better than others.

And they're not totally 'unscrupulous to get power' - that's the rantings of someone who waves a torch at them, not understanding much, easily manipulated.

Career politicians will never agree to limit their power. Ever.

Of course they will and do. You are part of the problem. You have every right to demand politicians do not abuse power - but you are a menace to the society when all you can do is make generalizations that that's all any politician does, you can't be pleased, all you can do is oppose all of them whatever they do. You are the type who rewards the worst politicians and fails to support the good ones.

You are not a citizen who wants good government or has an idea what it is, you are a mob-mentality ranter who politicians can do little with but treat as a child.

Save234

 

[exdeath]

Actually most of our problems can be traced back to FDR.

FTFY

 

[manimal]

FTFY

Things were soo great before the great depression right? Do you people seriously know your history? I am flabbergasted by this Romanticisation of some great era that never existed.....

 

[bfdd]

Funny thing that general welfare clause, socialists always leave off the most important part, the action verb, describing governments role in that action. It's *promote* the general welfare, NOT secure or provide or establish or insure for the general welfare, but to promote it.

Yeah it is quite funny. No where in the definition of the word promote does the word "provide" appear.

 

[Fern]

Don't see how this constitutes a lie.

You quote this part:

An early push by New Jersey Republican Rep. Scott Garrett to add some “teeth” to the GOP’s new Constitution rule requiring every bill cite its specific constitutional authority failed in a Republican conference meeting Tuesday.

If you read the article you'll see nothing changed with that pledge. The guy's amendment was just to exclude some portions of the Constitution from automatically qualifying. The excluded portions, if relied upon, would called for 10 minutes x 2 additional debate. I don't see the big deal.

In any, IMO, the whole thing is more 'show' than 'substance'.

Fern

 

[Darwin333]

It depends on what you want them to do. What is your agenda?

How does it depend on what I want them to do when they all do the same fucking thing?

 

[matt0611]

No, it's not. That's an ignoramus's opinion.

It's to set the policies, within the scope of government, for society - to serve some interests.

...

Craig, I think you're talking about in a world we all wished we lived in, rather than the one we do live in. Its a nice thought though, wish that was how it really worked.

 

[dali71]

America is a country of fools, the show that every time they vote Republican.

Which is why you voted for Bush twice?

 

[nageov3t]

where exactly are the "lies" here?

 

[Vette73]

where exactly are the "lies" here?

Heres some to get started with.

Just hours after taking control of the House, Republicans passed a sweeping set of rules promising transparency and reform.
But the new majority is already showing these promises aren’t exactly set in stone.

1 After calling for bills to go through a regular committee process, the bill that would repeal the health care law will not go through a single committee.

2 Despite promising a more open amendment process for bills, amendments for the health care repeal will be all but shut down.

3 After calling for a strict committee attendance list to be posted online, Republicans backpedaled and ditched that from the rules.

4 They promised constitutional citations for every bill but have yet to add that language to early bills.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Don't worry. Fox News will say it's all the Democrats' fault.
That's all that matters.

Like how MSNBC, CNN, ABCNEWS, ect all say it's the Republicans fault.

Here's a hint. It's politicians fault. It doesn't matter what side of the isle they are on, they are all sleazy, manipulative, backstabbing, self center bastards and beotches. Except Ron Paul. He does have some bat shit crazy ideas, but he stands by his principles more than anyone else that is in office now.

 

[Zedtom]

So all that venom and anger demonstrated by tea party activists can now be channeled to who? Oh, themselves for being manipulated.

 

[llee]

i wish you had another war. maybe that would force the partisans to shut up and cooperate for a change.

 

[Lemon law]

i wish you had another war. maybe that would force the partisans to shut up and cooperate for a change.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But wait we do have two adolescent quagmires, one will turn 10 in the fall of 2011, and one will turn 8 in the spring of 2011. Ain't they cute and cuddly, they look just like a cross between GWB, Cheney, and a garbage truck.

But quagmires get fed on a bipartisan basis, there is plenty of other time left for Partisan politics the other 99% of the time.

 

[Scotteq]

i wish you had another war. maybe that would force the partisans to shut up and cooperate for a change.

Naaah - They'd just find "reasons" to blame the other guy. It's the American way, don'cha know?

 

[trenchfoot]

Heres some to get started with.

Just hours after taking control of the House, Republicans passed a sweeping set of rules promising transparency and reform.
But the new majority is already showing these promises aren’t exactly set in stone.

1 After calling for bills to go through a regular committee process, the bill that would repeal the health care law will not go through a single committee.

2 Despite promising a more open amendment process for bills, amendments for the health care repeal will be all but shut down.

3 After calling for a strict committee attendance list to be posted online, Republicans backpedaled and ditched that from the rules.

4 They promised constitutional citations for every bill but have yet to add that language to early bills.

Brings new meaning to the phrase "bait and switch". The repubs can get away with anything they want so long as they keep lying up front, feeding the FOX propaganda machine more talking points to minister to those that want to hear those words for comfort and security, but are too lazy/inept to find out what's really going on.

*edit - And if the Tea Party stays mum on these kinds of chicanery, then they're showing themselves to be no different than the party they set up base in and should let themselves be ignominiously absorbed into obscurity, back into the party from whence they came.

 

[her209]

Remember, from the Pledge to America:

We recognize that these solutions are
ambitious, and that we are proposing them
at a time of intense public distrust in
politicians and the political system. That’s
why we are offering a plan to reform
Congress and restore trust so that we
can put power back where it belongs: in the
hands of the people. We will govern
differently than past Congresses of both
parties. We will require that every bill
contain a citation of Constitutional
authority. We will give all Representatives
and citizens at least three days to read the
bill before a vote. We will make sure that
the floor schedule and operations reflect the
priority of revitalizing the economy, and
ensure there is an open process that makes
it easier – not harder – to eliminate
unnecessary spending on any legislation
that spends the people’s money.