5D MK2 Reviewed.

[Deadtrees]

I've finished reading a user review on 5D mk2 on this forum I go to and the reviwer there made quite informative points. Keep it mind that below is only a portion of what he said and my translation sucks.

Simply put,

1. Once you turn on the NR function, it'll be applied regardless of ISO level. In other words, NR will be applied evenon ISO 100. This results in significant loss of detail. The problem is that users are more likely to have it on even if they mostly shoot in low ISO because it can be annoying to turn it on and off while changing ISO levels. If you mostly shoot in low ISO, turning it off will get you the best IQ in terms of resolution. If you're in a situation that requires you to up the ISO slightly(say 100-800), NR Low is recommanded as the trade-off is minimal.

2. ALO is tied to Face detection. Once it reconigizes a face, ALO level will be stronger. This can greatly boost noise or softer image due to NR being applied.

3. ALO can interfere with your shooting style. Below are some of the situations that photographers may shoot intentionally:

a. low exposure
b. low flash exposure
c. fill-in light flash exposure
d. back light shooting for low contrast images

With ALO on, your calculated intention will be lost by the camera. Not only that, ALO works differently in different situations. ALO that produced good result in situation A might give you terrible result in situation B.

The problem is that NR and ALO is on by default. Why did Canon have both on them on by default and decided to apply NR even in low ISO? My understanding is that NR had to be applied even in low ISO because ALO can greatly boost noise even in low ISO. Had Canon decided to leave ALO off by default, NR could've been off. However, as ALO is on by default, NR had to be on. The result is that you will have a camera that interferes with your shooting style while degrading IQ. Of course, those can be off as long as you know the downside of it. The problem is that it doesn't give you detailed choices.

The conclusion is that it's a great camera that produces amazing IQ only if you do the research and understand settings that work for you and your shooting environment. Most users would not know that NR is applied even in low ISO level and it can fool users. Those who don't know how ALO acts differently in various situations, they'll get less than desirable images (I wish Canon would document basic principles of ALO algorithm.)

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My 2c.

Because most of professional review sites test cameras based on its default settings, 5D MK2 will get worse reviews than it should get(in terms deatil in low ISO.) In the above review, sample pictures that had NR and ALO off, indeed, showed much greater detail than both of them being on. This reminds me of Pentax *istDS; because *istDS had its default picture setting in "Bright" mode, it showed terrible noise, gradation, and DR although one simple click to "Neutral" mode showed much better result. Having said that, now I understand why 5D mk2 showed less detail than 5D and sometimes the opposite.

I couldn't agree more with the reviewer and I think such advanced functions should've been off by default, not to mention providing more options. NR being applied regardless of ISO level seems very stupid. There're some cases when I have to have it on because I may need high ISO and low ISO at the pretty much same time. I usually didn't care as NR didn't kick in in low ISO. Now, when I get 5D mk2, I'll have one thing that'll sure annoy me.
ALO being dynamic seems quite bad, too. ALO is a function that can be useful but having it not predictable sounds quite bad. I guess it'll require lots of trial and error.

EDIT: Deleted rant on Anandtech review.

 

[Adul]

nice, i so want one

 

[Doggiedog]

I'm looking at my menu now.

Which NR is it referring to?

There is Long Exposure NR and High ISO Speed NR.

Are you saying that any NR will affect low ISO? I turned off ALO.

I can't believe how complicated this thing is. My 20D is like a Ford Model T compared to this Ferrari.

 

[extra]

Originally posted by: Deadtrees
The conclusion is that it's a great camera that produces amazing IQ only if you do the research and understand settings that work for you and your shooting environment. Most users would not know that NR is applied even in low ISO level and it can fool users. Those who don't know how ALO acts differently in various situations, they'll get less than desirable images (I wish Canon would document basic principles of ALO algorithm.)

I find this to be B.S. lol. People that are buying the 5D *KNOW WHAT THE SETTINGS DO!!!*

If this was a review of something like my xsi for example then it would make sense. But not for a 5d or 1d, sorry.

 

[Deadtrees]

Originally posted by: extra

Originally posted by: Deadtrees
The conclusion is that it's a great camera that produces amazing IQ only if you do the research and understand settings that work for you and your shooting environment. Most users would not know that NR is applied even in low ISO level and it can fool users. Those who don't know how ALO acts differently in various situations, they'll get less than desirable images (I wish Canon would document basic principles of ALO algorithm.)

I find this to be B.S. lol. People that are buying the 5D *KNOW WHAT THE SETTINGS DO!!!*

If this was a review of something like my xsi for example then it would make sense. But not for a 5d or 1d, sorry.

No. Most users wouldn't know and doesn't know that NR affects IQ(in terms of detail) even in ISO 100. That's the thing about digital processing; unlike mechanical functions, what it does and how it does is very vague and they're different from company A to company B, not to mention how they're different within same company.
Just read what DoggieDog has said. It's quite complicated and there're many setting that doesn't give clear answer regarding how it works.
Hell, it's not only general users who don't know. Even professional reviwers often don't know about such changes.
Instead of saying it's all B.S, why don't you go to those photography forums and ask if they know that NR being on 5d mk2 affects ISO 100 IQ? Also, ask them if they know how Neutral mode Picture Style is different from other, especially Standard Picture Style mode.

 

[Doggiedog]

It's amazing how complex this thing is.

I've been using SLRs for over 25 years (including the Canon T-90) and I've had the 20D since it came out but nothing could prepare me for this camera. It's got menu after menu. I guess I should RTFM but right now I'm just learning as I go along. I did notice my video quality is not very good so there must be some setting that is off.

 

[tracerbullet]

Originally posted by: extra

Originally posted by: Deadtrees
The conclusion is that it's a great camera that produces amazing IQ only if you do the research and understand settings that work for you and your shooting environment. Most users would not know that NR is applied even in low ISO level and it can fool users. Those who don't know how ALO acts differently in various situations, they'll get less than desirable images (I wish Canon would document basic principles of ALO algorithm.)

I find this to be B.S. lol. People that are buying the 5D *KNOW WHAT THE SETTINGS DO!!!*

If this was a review of something like my xsi for example then it would make sense. But not for a 5d or 1d, sorry.

I have been dumbfounded many, many times by what people do or don't know. Geeks like us know what settings are because we care about that stuff. The rich dad who bought the soccer mom wife a nice fancy new toy - they won't take it off auto mode or have any idea how things work (it's a higher % of the buying population than you might think). Also there are plenty of pro's that can take awesome shots as far as creativity, lighting, and etc. go yet recently have come from a film background, and certainly know what ISO means but have no idea that there is noise reduction or anything similar even available.

I too used to think all other owners (I have the older 5D) were like me, I've found that in reality it's not even close.

 

[Deadtrees]

Originally posted by: tracerbullet

Originally posted by: extra

Originally posted by: Deadtrees
The conclusion is that it's a great camera that produces amazing IQ only if you do the research and understand settings that work for you and your shooting environment. Most users would not know that NR is applied even in low ISO level and it can fool users. Those who don't know how ALO acts differently in various situations, they'll get less than desirable images (I wish Canon would document basic principles of ALO algorithm.)

I find this to be B.S. lol. People that are buying the 5D *KNOW WHAT THE SETTINGS DO!!!*

If this was a review of something like my xsi for example then it would make sense. But not for a 5d or 1d, sorry.

I have been dumbfounded many, many times by what people do or don't know. Geeks like us know what settings are because we care about that stuff. The rich dad who bought the soccer mom wife a nice fancy new toy - they won't take it off auto mode or have any idea how things work (it's a higher % of the buying population than you might think). Also there are plenty of pro's that can take awesome shots as far as creativity, lighting, and etc. go yet recently have come from a film background, and certainly know what ISO means but have no idea that there is noise reduction or anything similar even available.

I too used to think all other owners (I have the older 5D) were like me, I've found that in reality it's not even close.

Exactly. I know this ex-professional photographer who takes mind blowing photographs. He's the expert in lighting, composition and whatever. However, he's clueless when it comes to digital cameras and their functions.

A person like me probably knows all those tiny details about their camera by reading all those reviews but the majority of people just don't know.

Ask 5D users if they know the difference(in terms of detail/noise) between Standard mode and Neutral mode. Ask if they know if that ISO level on 5D is actually 1/3 higher than standard ISO ratings (ISO 100 is in fact ISO 125...3200 is 4000.) Ask if they know that any ISO levels beside 100, 200,400,800,1600 are software generated ISO levels and that they generate higher noise than higher hardware based ISO levles (Ex. ISO 640 generates more noise than ISO 800 in RAW.)

People with high-end cameras are those who know all. It simply isn't the case.