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540i (e39)

I

Insomniator

Diamond Member
Just saw a black 540i on the road... looked beautiful. Love the subtle design...

Currently drive an 04 Mini S with some mods on it... great little car but I'm getting bored; it has a harsh ride and golf clubs take up 100% of the back storage.

Whats up with e39's? Reliable? Money pits? Comfortable cruisers? Performance? I've done 0 research so far, just saw one on the road today. I don't care about new car features -- nav, awd, good mpg etc... I drive 6 miles a day to work.

My mini is probably worth 6 or 7k private sale... 3-4k trade in? Whats a decent e39 go for?
 
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Insomniator said:
Something like this? Maintenance can't possibly be worse then my Mini, though 108k miles is quite a bit, considering I'd have to put 4-5k on top of what I owe already with my car that has only 85k.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...mmt=[BMW[540I[]][]]&listingId=331573176&Log=0

Actually I probably don't even need the V8 540... what about a 525i? Though for only 2 grand more it seems worth it to go big...

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...mmt=[BMW[525I[]][]]&listingId=371963081&Log=0
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They are monsters but are also considerably more to maintain than the 6 cylinder variants.

Also, the six cylinder cars have rack and pinion steering whereas the v8 has recirculating ball steering. The former is said to be better.

All the e39 BMWs are complex cars and will cost a lot to maintain, much more than a comparable 3 series.

And in California you can find a decent one for 7k. The rest of the Country even less.

They haven't really depreciated at all in the last five years.
 
This was my 540. It was a fun car and do miss it some.


You'll have the typical German maintenance. Plastic cooling system that's considered routine maintenance to replace. Electrical gremlins, it's the only vehicle i've ever owned that I needed to replace the ignition switch. The wagon had self leveling rear suspension, so another level of complexity. Dang shocks for the rear were $300 each. Fluid filled suspension bushings, so if they crack, the fluid leaks out.

Fun to drive. I brought the 540 over the 6's because I wanted to have some fun with it The are not light cars. I had sport springs on the front. Firm ride, handles well for how heavy it is.

You'll need to be able to do your own wrenching or it will eat you alive.
 
Hmm no wrenching for me, I want to learn but live in an apartment with no garage 🙁

I've probably put 3 grand into the mini in 2.5 years of ownership, not including a $1000 failed cooling fan and some suspension stuff replaced under an extended warranty. That was with putting 25k a year on the car though.

Now that my total miles per year is under 3k, I wonder if I can better chance a car like this. I'll have to test drive a few and see if they drive as good as they look to me.
 
DougoMan said:
They are monsters but are also considerably more to maintain than the 6 cylinder variants.

Also, the six cylinder cars have rack and pinion steering whereas the v8 has recirculating ball steering. The former is said to be better.

All the e39 BMWs are complex cars and will cost a lot to maintain, much more than a comparable 3 series.

And in California you can find a decent one for 7k. The rest of the Country even less.

They haven't really depreciated at all in the last five years.
Click to expand...

My father-in-law's wife has a 2003 530i with very low mileage on it. They bought it new but they're both retired and don't really drive it all that much. I don't even think it has 60k miles on it.

The V8 engines are powerful but I've heard they have some issues that can be costly to repair. Personally, I'd go with the 530 or 525i.
 
I have an E39 as my "other car" and I really enjoy it. Doesn't get driven much - but that was always the point. It's a 2002 525i, 5-spd, 146k. I've had it a couple of years - only put on 5-6k since I got it. I love this body style. I debated between the 540 vs. the 525/528/530... I ended up leaning towards the 6-cylinder because of it's better reliability record and fuel-economy... as it turns out, there wasn't much to choose from when I was looking (a lot of folks with E39s in good shape, and manual trans had really overpriced listings)... I don't know that I would make it my daily-driver... it's too much car (for me) to drive around town for short-hops - it's definitely more of a cruiser.
 
I would say they're fairly reliable but can have a lot of "normal" maintenance items that need addressing sooner than a typical car, and that will get expensive if you don't do it yourself. If you can't do most of your own repairs I almost certainly wouldn't get one.
 
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Throckmorton said:
Go big or go home! Get a V12 7 series
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ha! I think a 540i would be plenty big for me... that engine is almost 3x larger then my mini's 😛

The true challenge here will be finding a good deal I think. I'm not terribly worried about maintenance with the distance I travel. Just as long as the transmission doesn't bite the dust for 5 grand...
 
Brother in law has a nice 2001 540 m-sport. Before that he also had a 540 non-m-sport until some lady pulled out in front of him. Both cars had rear wheel bearing issues. The prior one had all the common BMW cooling problems. The v8 is "small" but fun. He thinks the E39's are the best thing since sliced bread.
 
Unfortunately, the more I read the more scared I get. Might be something to wait until I have a proper garage for and time to learn.

If I do find a perfect one thats been taken care of I may still go for it if the car blows me away. Prices just seem so high now. 7k gets me 1998 with 160k miles. A 2002-3 with under 100k are going for 11k+.
 
You may need to look south. I sold my 01' Touring (fetches a bit of a premium) 130k, with extra options and stuff. For $9500 two years ago. Maybe that's why the guy flew in from NY to buy it.
 
The E34s are more reliable and better looking IMO.

I have a 95 540i/6. Thinking of getting rid of it since my parent's free parking is moving to Idaho....

Throckmorton said:
Go big or go home! Get a V12 7 series
Click to expand...

I almost did this. I had my heart set on a 2001 E38 V12, those cares look so good and classic with the M-Parallel rims.

But now I have motorcycles and my car is my wife's Gold Toyota Camry. The first time I took that thing to get tires I was pretty much sold. I love how cheap it is, no more BMW maintenance for me.
 
E34's are definitely nice looking as well, I just prefer the look of the 39. Plus I think getting up to 20 years old is a little too much for me. I'm really only looking at 02 and 03 E39's. Just need to not be such a chicken about it.
 
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Insomniator said:
Unfortunately, the more I read the more scared I get. Might be something to wait until I have a proper garage for and time to learn.

If I do find a perfect one thats been taken care of I may still go for it if the car blows me away. Prices just seem so high now. 7k gets me 1998 with 160k miles. A 2002-3 with under 100k are going for 11k+.
Click to expand...

Yeah, pretty sure both of the BIL's cars were around $10k with 100k on the odo. It's basically why I am not interested, I just don't see the value. Hell, I've got a Porsche 944 that I am tired of turning wrenches on, don't need another thing like that.
 
Coming from someone who owned a 540 sport - NO. RUN.

The 540 has the old recirc ball steering box while the 530 had the newer and much better rack and pinion. A steering box, IF you can find one, $2k+. Many people tighten up the adjusting bolt just to sell the car. It will loosen up in a couple thousand miles, if that.

Front suspension parts are incredibly expensive if you get good ones, and they will need replaced often. I believe I paid around $3k in non-bmw decent quality parts to rebuild mine. The suspension really (in my opinion) was designed for the lighter i6. The extra weight of the v8 takes its toll. There are tons of chinese crap quality parts, most people use these just to limp the car along to sell it.

The 540 has major known vanos issues, and they are FAR more difficult to replace than the 530. It takes some outrageous amount of time, like 15 shop hours to replace vanos seals. The cheapest DIY options are $3k++ in parts since you should replace the chain/guides while doing vanos. Also need special BMW timing tools. Most DIY vanos articles for the v8 say prepare for 20+ hours of labor.

The vanos issues makes these cars ticking time bombs. They also have some known timing chain problems.

If you're going to take all of these insane risks you might as well cough up the $$ and get an e39 m5. Then instead of $5k+ vanos repairs you're looking at $6k+ carbon build up repairs.


The only exception is the ~97-~2000 540i v8 that was non-vanos. But good luck finding one that is not thrashed to hell and back. And you still have junk front suspension, recirc ball steering..

A better option in that price range is the 04-07 cts-v. That way you're only worried about a $1500 exploding rear end.
 
e39's are amazing cars, IF WELL KEPT. Preventative maintenance for BMW's are a MUST. I feel BMW gets a bad rap for reliability and cost because most people don't know how to properly care for their BMW. They need quality parts, and they need them before they fail, not after.

e39's are a great example of this because of their main headache: the cooling system. The entire system pretty much needs to be replaced at around 90-100k. Do that, and it's good for another 100k.

I used to have one and loved it. Yeah it costs a bit more to maintain, but it's so worth it if you can afford it.
 
SpatiallyAware said:
Coming from someone who owned a 540 sport - NO. RUN.

The 540 has the old recirc ball steering box while the 530 had the newer and much better rack and pinion. A steering box, IF you can find one, $2k+. Many people tighten up the adjusting bolt just to sell the car. It will loosen up in a couple thousand miles, if that.

Front suspension parts are incredibly expensive if you get good ones, and they will need replaced often. I believe I paid around $3k in non-bmw decent quality parts to rebuild mine. The suspension really (in my opinion) was designed for the lighter i6. The extra weight of the v8 takes its toll. There are tons of chinese crap quality parts, most people use these just to limp the car along to sell it.

The 540 has major known vanos issues, and they are FAR more difficult to replace than the 530. It takes some outrageous amount of time, like 15 shop hours to replace vanos seals. The cheapest DIY options are $3k++ in parts since you should replace the chain/guides while doing vanos. Also need special BMW timing tools. Most DIY vanos articles for the v8 say prepare for 20+ hours of labor.

The vanos issues makes these cars ticking time bombs. They also have some known timing chain problems.

If you're going to take all of these insane risks you might as well cough up the $$ and get an e39 m5. Then instead of $5k+ vanos repairs you're looking at $6k+ carbon build up repairs.


The only exception is the ~97-~2000 540i v8 that was non-vanos. But good luck finding one that is not thrashed to hell and back. And you still have junk front suspension, recirc ball steering..

A better option in that price range is the 04-07 cts-v. That way you're only worried about a $1500 exploding rear end.
Click to expand...

This. Essentially the BMW V8s are solid engines, but everything around them fails and the replacement process is not easy at all. The engine bays were really designed to fit an inline 6. Often times the V8 was an after thought and thus really shoehorned in and you get all these little issues as a result and then fixing them requires and insane amount of labor.

In regards to the steering boxes. They are solid units and go and go, but they also get looser and looser over time. They are a nightmare to replace and pricey.
 
That really sucks, I'm sure the CTS-V is a nice car, but its not something I'm interested in at all.

I can handle/understand higher maintenance costs for expensive vehicles, but the numerous MAJOR fail points are just inexcusable... Why can't I own a used german car without worrying about a 5k repair bill any time after 50k miles? Fine tires and brakes wear out quicker... and an alternator costs more than normal... I can afford that... but the rest is hard to accept.

Its just hard to justify a car like this when I can go buy a freakin used civic for half the price and 10x the reliability. I LOVE cars but... whats the point. Maybe I'll just drive my mini for the next 2 years until my loan is over (though the check engine light came on the way home today so who knows what that is -- probably need a new engine).
 
SpatiallyAware said:
Coming from someone who owned a 540 sport - NO. RUN.

The 540 has the old recirc ball steering box while the 530 had the newer and much better rack and pinion. A steering box, IF you can find one, $2k+. Many people tighten up the adjusting bolt just to sell the car. It will loosen up in a couple thousand miles, if that.

Front suspension parts are incredibly expensive if you get good ones, and they will need replaced often. I believe I paid around $3k in non-bmw decent quality parts to rebuild mine. The suspension really (in my opinion) was designed for the lighter i6. The extra weight of the v8 takes its toll. There are tons of chinese crap quality parts, most people use these just to limp the car along to sell it.

The 540 has major known vanos issues, and they are FAR more difficult to replace than the 530. It takes some outrageous amount of time, like 15 shop hours to replace vanos seals. The cheapest DIY options are $3k++ in parts since you should replace the chain/guides while doing vanos. Also need special BMW timing tools. Most DIY vanos articles for the v8 say prepare for 20+ hours of labor.

The vanos issues makes these cars ticking time bombs. They also have some known timing chain problems.

If you're going to take all of these insane risks you might as well cough up the $$ and get an e39 m5. Then instead of $5k+ vanos repairs you're looking at $6k+ carbon build up repairs.


The only exception is the ~97-~2000 540i v8 that was non-vanos. But good luck finding one that is not thrashed to hell and back. And you still have junk front suspension, recirc ball steering..

A better option in that price range is the 04-07 cts-v. That way you're only worried about a $1500 exploding rear end.
Click to expand...

You are probably right that if you are considering a 540, for the amount of personal maintenance you should expect to put in you're better up just ponying up a few k more for an M5. You're also correct that for this poster, he probably is much better off with a CTS-V.

As far as the issues you're brining up...

I thought the 540 and M5 had the same steering box, and I've never heard any real bitching from the M5 community about that going bad.

No comment on 540 suspension. As far as the M5 goes, it's not too bad, I just hope you like replacing bushings.

I think VANOS issues are typically grossly overstated and can be addressed much easier than the full replacement nightmare scenario most people jump to. The majority of all VANOS issues can be addressed by repairing/replacing the solenoids which is significantly less work.

Carbon buildup can be ignored with a $600 DME flash (plus you get all the other DME flash features and a performance boost).


All this said, I don't think either car is a good option right now for OP. It's probably impossible to find a 530/540 with low enough miles to mitigate the maintenance costs and an M5 in that category will be outside his budget. Either way these are still 15 year old cars so you'll likely have to tackle some maintenance items no matter the mileage.
 
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