54.4% Margins - Nvidia

[TemjinGold]

OP: If it bothers you so much, then don't buy nVidia products. No one is holding a gun to your head. You want super stuff at dirt prices? Well I wish I could fly. But we don't always get what we want. nVidia, like any other publicly traded company, has a duty to its shareholders to charge what people will pay. If that upsets you, do something about. Go start your own video card company.

 

[Fx1]

And I risk getting hit by an Ethiopian anti-ballistic satellite every time I walk my dog.
I don't worry about it too much though



I very much doubt that. 28nm is in full swing, capacity issues very much gone and coupled with refresh that the reason why they're so bullish about GTX.

If he leaks are real then Nvidia has nothing up its sleeve. It just wants to beat AMD out the gate.

Also companies are always bullish its now they prop up their share price

 

[Fx1]

OP: If it bothers you so much, then don't buy nVidia products. No one is holding a gun to your head. You want super stuff at dirt prices? Well I wish I could fly. But we don't always get what we want. nVidia, like any other publicly traded company, has a duty to its shareholders to charge what people will pay. If that upsets you, do something about. Go start your own video card company.

I dont buy Nvidia's product. Not at the moment.

It doesnt "upset me"

I dont have to be happy that PC gaming is becoming £400-£850 GPU's which are obsolete in 12 months. I paid £350 for 4870X2... Now we are at £850 for the 7990 and 690 GTX.

Why would anyone be happy with that

 

[f1sherman]

If he leaks are real then Nvidia has nothing up its sleeve. It just wants to beat AMD out the gate.

Also companies are always bullish its now they prop up their share price

Really? Then how come NV regularly beats estimate

 

[Erenhardt]

To put it simply AMD needs better perf/ sq mm and perf/watt for the chips they design.

When Hd7000 came out people still went and bought slower and more expensive fermi chips saying: It is desktop, I don't care for power draw!

Main reason why people buy Nvidia? e-peen. They want to show off on forums/facebooks they have expensive hardware... maybe slower than yours, but my is premium!
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316422

 

[Erenhardt]

I very much doubt that. 28nm is in full swing, capacity issues very much gone and coupled with refresh that the reason why they're so bullish about GTX.

What refresh? You gotta be kidding me if you call cut down titan and rebadge of 600->700 a refresh

 

[SirPauly]

When Hd7000 came out people still went and bought slower and more expensive fermi chips saying: It is desktop, I don't care for power draw!

Main reason why people buy Nvidia? e-peen. They want to show off on forums/facebooks they have expensive hardware... maybe slower than yours, but my is premium!
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316422

Probably some do and nothing wrong with sharing their excitement and enthusiasm.

For me, I choose nVidia since 2008 based on gaming experience potential and willingness to offer gaming is more than just fast frame-rates -- was so surprised by this in an official press release.

 

[Phynaz]

It doesnt "upset me"

You're going in circles again, because you are certainly upset in your posts in this thread.

 

[SirPauly]

What refresh? You gotta be kidding me if you call cut down titan and rebadge of 600->700 a refresh

Absolutely, would be a welcomed refresh -- just like the GTX 5XX series refresh over the GTX 4XX series was welcomed.

 

[SirPauly]

I dont buy Nvidia's product. Not at the moment.

It doesnt "upset me"

I dont have to be happy that PC gaming is becoming £400-£850 GPU's which are obsolete in 12 months. I paid £350 for 4870X2... Now we are at £850 for the 7990 and 690 GTX.

Why would anyone be happy with that

I'm pretty happy about PC gaming based on there is compelling choice from AMD and nVidia at many price-points -- more quality, flexibility and tools to help immersion and gaming experience potential --- choices for gamers to find the right balance for their subjective tastes, tolerances, thresholds and wallet; with PC gaming gaining momentum and more focus from nVidia and AMD developer relations; with more developers targeting the flexibility and openness of the PC Platform, which is garnering more revenue than ever before.

In other words: It's good to be a Pc gamer over-all these days.

 

[Cloudfire777]

Delicious jealusy in this thread.

Some people just can`t deal with the fact that many people want to spend a little more money on a brand they know work and prefer.

 

[Fx1]

Really? Then how come NV regularly beats estimate

If NV always beat estimates then their share price would be higher than current. They have been bumbling in this range forever.

 

[Face2Face]

50%+ in profits is needed for companies like Nvidia. They are a public company and tech development cost a lot of money I presume. Someone mentioned Cisco...they kill it in margin in North America. Resellers make 5-15% for just pushing product and integrators make more because they provide a service.

 

[RussianSensation]

What? AMD dropped prices in a huge way. A 7970 cost $549 without free games. Now you get it for what? $399 with three games.

From launch prices dropped but I was talking about from the time HD7970GE and 925mhz HD7950s launched last summer. Around June-early July 2012, the prices of those cards were very similar to what they are today. No matter how you slice it, HD7950-7970-7970GE are all overpriced since for 12 months their prices barely dropped. Imagine if HD5870 was $350 for 1.5 years. By the time HD6970 & GTX580 launched, HD5870 was going for $200-225 tops. I am hoping NV will see the light of day and bring GTX670 / 680 levels of performance at $299/$399. It's about time. GTX280 was $499 and within 7 months GTX285 replaced it at $349. That's how a healthy GPU industry normally works. This round both NV & AMD are getting away with very high pricing and consumers are just bending over as if it's the new norm. At least, if one bought GTX680 / HD7970 in 1Q of 2012, they got 1-1.5 years out of it already but paying these prices for 1-1.5 years old 28nm tech is outrageous.

Except he never said 7970GE, I just threw it in there with the latest released games to make my point. Look at his original post that I first responded to regarding performance of top tier cards (back on page 1 or 2 I believe). I know and realize that on the overall the 7970GE (not 7970) is faster than the gtx680, but the latest trend of games is bucking the OVERALL trend, despite most of these games being in AMD's GE lineup (something that people would normally cry a fit about if the games were TWIMTBP).

Good point. That's another facepalm on AMD's part calling HD7970 refresh HD7970 GE instead of HD7980.

When Hd7000 came out people still went and bought slower and more expensive fermi chips saying: It is desktop, I don't care for power draw! Main reason why people buy Nvidia? e-peen.

That's pretty funny. The same people bought GTX285 when HD5850 OC mopped the floor with it for 6 months. Over the years I've noticed a trend that gamers who are loyal to NV just keep buying NV or waiting for NV cards even when they are late. When AMD made turds like HD2900XT/3870, most people stayed away from them. Yet, when NV made GeForce 5 and 7, people still bought those. GeForce 5 was simply awful while GeForce 7 fell apart in shader intensive DX9 games. One would have had to be extremely brand loyal to NV to touch those series. Shrug.

For those who say AMD wipes the floor with NV this round you are considering something MOST buyers do not consider......Overclocking.

Did you completely miss the part where HD7770/7850/7870 sold uncontested for 6+ months? Can you please explain how someone purchased GTX560Ti over HD7850 2GB and GTX570 1.28GB/GTX580 1.5GB over HD7870 from March 2012 to August 2012? Kit Guru reported that at that time NV had 120,000 GTX570 cards in unsold inventory, which was another reason NV delayed GTX660 to August 2012. How does someone buy 40nm GTX570/580 from March 2012 to August 2012 when 28nm GCN cards were going for similar prices? Who would buy 40nm AMD cards if GCN was 6 months behind Kepler? No one rational unless they had some huge firesale on 40nm parts, which was not the case for 570/580s. Fermi vs. HD5800 series and GCN HD7850/7870 vs. 40nm Fermi are 2 back-to-back examples of NV fans buying outdated tech instead of competitor's products just to stay loyal to NV.

 

[bystander36]

So Fx1, obviously you think Nvidia is gauging people (obviously not you, as you won't by Nvidia). What would you do if Nvidia decided to drop their prices by a significant amount and ran AMD into the ground?

What if Intel did the same? AMD is able to survive because their competition doesn't try to squeeze them out with pricing.

 

[Cloudfire777]

They don`t have to drop their prices. Nvidia is still running AMD to the ground with the current price model

 

[Face2Face]

So Fx1, obviously you think Nvidia is gauging people (obviously not you, as you won't by Nvidia). What would you do if Nvidia decided to drop their prices by a significant amount and ran AMD into the ground?

What if Intel did the same? AMD is able to survive because their competition doesn't try to squeeze them out with pricing.

 

[f1sherman]

If NV always beat estimates then their share price would be higher than current. They have been bumbling in this range forever.

They're up since releasing Q1 results.

According to you they should be DOWN, because NV estimates are not based on reality

 

[Jaydip]

I still don't understand what the hell are we discussing here.In the end we will all unanimously agree that no one is forcing us to buy NV gpus so just STFU.

 

[DooKey]

Did you completely miss the part where HD7770/7850/7870 sold uncontested for 6+ months? Can you please explain how someone purchased GTX560Ti over HD7850 2GB and GTX570 1.28GB/GTX580 1.5GB over HD7870 from March 2012 to August 2012? Kit Guru reported that at that time NV has 120,000 GTX570 cards in stock to be sold off, which was another reason NV delayed GTX660Ti to August 2012. How does someone buy a GTX570/580 from March 2012 to August 2012 when 28nm GCN cards were going for similar prices?

It's very easy to explain and I'll do it again. In the mass market consumers judge by brand, visual performance (how fast it seems to play) and word of mouth, with price playing a role as well. Prices are similar, the mark one eyeball says they are each equal in performance, friend recommends a certain brand, video card is purchased. That's why NV is killing AMD in the mass market. As far as enthusiasts go price/performance settles a lot of the purchase decisions as well as overclocking, but this seems to only hold in the single gpu decision. Most enthusiasts won't touch AMD in multi-gpu until they get their act together with their hardware/drivers.

 

[SirPauly]

That's pretty funny. The same people bought GTX285 when HD5850 OC mopped the floor with it for 6 months. Over the years I've noticed a trend that gamers who are loyal to NV just keep buying NV or waiting for NV cards even when they are late. When AMD made turds like HD2900XT/3870, most people stayed away from them. Yet, when NV made GeForce 5 and 7, people still bought those. GeForce 5 was simply awful while GeForce 7 fell apart in shader intensive DX9 games. One would have had to be extremely brand loyal to NV to touch those series. Shrug.

Turds and simply awful are too extreme to me. The GeForceFX 5900 I purchased for 199 was a nice product for the price I paid and had some strengths like a more angle invariant filtering, and an under-rated image sharpening feature, an hybrid mixed mode flexibility and was a nice side grade with my 9800 pro which I paid 399 dollars for. The 5900 didn't match the 9800 pro but wasn't simply awful.

Without nVidia's 5XXX Series there are no 8XXX Series -- without the 2900XT there are no 5870's.

 

[blackened23]

I still don't understand what the hell are we discussing here.In the end we will all unanimously agree that no one is forcing us to buy NV gpus so just STFU.

Yeah, this thread belongs in P+N. Let the crazy people discuss this, and i'm sure it will devolve into the ultimate "capitalism sucks" discussion. What a waste of time.

 

[wand3r3r]

I don't want to mention capitalism in here (video cards), but I don't take is as a capitalism vs. anything else, it's simply NV gouging and the consumer perspective/backlash (granted the OP doesn't tippy-toe around subjects). Some people seem to have 'interests' or ties to NV which is no surprise as to why they are here trying to portray the 'wondrous' business side, but most enthusiasts are simply consumers, without financial or other ties to the business.

I'm not even sure why people get riled up about it.

 

[SirPauly]

IMHO,

It's simple: Some enthusiasts like to discuss technologies and the companies that create them.

Let's use this analogy: Some baseball fans or football fans like to discuss what the players make, inner workings of management decisions, stadiums, cap ramifications to name some quick examples.

The products offer entertainment to millions of gamers around the world, some are more curious than others and desire how these technological marvels are created, inner workings on how decisions are made.

I think it's great because AMD and nVidia stir up so much passion and discussion, which translates into relevancy -- nothing is worse than not being talked about and being irrelevant to me.

 

[Skurge]

Wow, I saw this thread this morning,

Can't believe it has gone to 8 pages.