$53 Trillion and Growing

[videogames101]

god damnit, if people want everything they ask fromm the government, then we need to raise taxes. A lot. There is no way around it, and people need to wrap that around their heads and figure out unless you don't want a military, or FEMA aid, or social security, or a FDA, or securing our border, or any other government service, your gonna have to suck up another $1000 in taxes a year. People might say thats high, but then again all those afore mentioned things cost money.

 

[NoStateofMind]

If only there was someone wanting to get us out of the Iraq money vacuum, unneeded government entities and new thoughts on monetary/fiscal policy.

No one like that around....nope....not a one....

 

[ranmaniac]

Originally posted by: Dissipate
The political class will destroy this country. I have said it before and I will say it again: politicians do not care about you or your future. They take office for a quick power grab and will continue to rape your wages away while they play golf, and broker corrupt deals. Every single government in the entire history of the world has done this, the U.S. government will continue to do it until the economy is destroyed and or a civil war breaks out.

Maybe with Universal Healthcare we'll at least get free anti-depressants so we can be happy as our nation collapses.

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: videogames101
god damnit, if people want everything they ask fromm the government, then we need to raise taxes. A lot. There is no way around it, and people need to wrap that around their heads and figure out unless you don't want a military, or FEMA aid, or social security, or a FDA, or securing our border, or any other government service, your gonna have to suck up another $1000 in taxes a year. People might say thats high, but then again all those afore mentioned things cost money.

Everything I ask for is a savings... wish more people would join in the fun.

 

[Engineer]

and to top it off, time for another tax cut as Bush considers a $500 check sent to all taxpayers and more business tax cuts to help stimulate the economy and keep it from recession. Of course, there are no spending cuts to offset this "borrowed" tax cut.

Ah, what the hell. I'll take the $500 and wait for $500 more!

<---- Greedy Engineer!

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Engineer
and to top it off, time for another tax cut as Bush considers a $500 check sent to all taxpayers and more business tax cuts to help stimulate the economy and keep it from recession. Of course, there are no spending cuts to offset this "borrowed" tax cut.

Ah, what the hell. I'll take the $500 and wait for $500 more!

<---- Greedy Engineer!

:laugh: I won't send the $500 back either.

Maybe I'll send it to Paul's campaign.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: Dissipate
The political class will destroy this country. I have said it before and I will say it again: politicians do not care about you or your future. They take office for a quick power grab and will continue to rape your wages away while they play golf, and broker corrupt deals. Every single government in the entire history of the world has done this, the U.S. government will continue to do it until the economy is destroyed and or a civil war breaks out.

So the solution is....? Tell us wise college anarchist.

Practically speaking there is no solution. People aren't going to rise up against the state, or stop voting and paying taxes. On an individual basis one can only leave the country or stock up on survival gear.

Oh, BTW, gold is about $900 an ounce right now...a possible indicator of trouble ahead.

 

[bamacre]

More on this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS2fI2p9iVs

"Fiscal Cancer"

 

[bamacre]

Bump. This problem has not gone away, yet.

What kind of situation are we putting ourselves into when we don't have a presidential candidate that is conservative? Looks like McCain has the Republican nomination wrapped up. As well, the Democrats will nominate either Obama or Hillary. McCain of course wants to continue the war in Iraq, which is costing us as much as $2 trillion. And admittedly, he will make our presence there permanent. Or at least "100 years," to use his words. Hillary and Obama also both have health insurance plans they want to push. And while a few here see those plans as "free," any sane person could easily see they simply aren't.

McCain would like us to believe that he has a special "Ronald Reagan" veto pen that he'll use for earmarks and wasteful government spending. What he fails to see is that Ronald Reagan didn't have 170,000 troops in a foreign country eating up $275 million per day of tax payer money.

The other option for us is Obama, or Hillary Clinton of course. They don't have an answer either, and like McCain, will just pour more gasoline on the fire. While they may increase taxes to help pay for their new health care policies, that's does nothing to help this "fiscal cancer" we are heading into. Not to mention, we are already taxed way too much, as many Americans only actually get about 50% of their income. Also, higher taxes usually hurt the economy, which inevitably would lower profits and income, decreasing our government's revenue.

I don't get it. I'm baffled. Are voters to blame? Or are the candidates and other government officials to blame for not giving this issue the priority and attention it deserves?

It seems to me that this country is traveling at a high rate of speed, straight into a brick wall, and no one seems to care. In fact, whoever wins in '08 will do nothing but make the problem worse.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: bamacre
No one president could fix this mess. But all of them seem to be making it bigger.

Making it bigger is what gets them elected.

Everyone wants to go to heaven, nobody wants to die.

Everyone wants to fix the budget/deficit/debt but nobody wants to give up anything to make that happen. (entitlements OR tax cuts) So... As long as the electorate understands that it can "vote itself largess from the public treasury" this will continue.

If this ends it bankruptcy, it would spark a revolution against Washington.

 

[blackangst1]

We aint seen nothin yet. Wait till the 2009-20012 budgets

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
We aint seen nothin yet. Wait till the 2009-20012 budgets

That's why I'm not voting for McCain.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: blackangst1
We aint seen nothin yet. Wait till the 2009-20012 budgets

That's why I'm not voting for McCain.

lol like it matters

 

[bamacre]

We tell our kids not to smoke cigarettes, we tell them not to use drugs. Stay in school, so they can get a good job, raise a family, and be happy. Most people who can afford it, move to an area with good schools. Others send their kids to private school. We tell them the dangers of unprotected sex. We make sure they have good health care. We do whatever we can to make sure our kids have a life better than our own.

And yet, at the same time, we are leaving them with a fiscal nightmare. A country on the very edge of bankruptcy. A country that will fall, and with it, the protection of their freedoms and liberties.

How can we do such a thing to our kids?

 

[Robor]

Yeah, yeah... Only Ron Paul can save us. (sigh) How long until he drops out so this 'revolution' ends?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Robor
Yeah, yeah... Only Ron Paul can save us. (sigh) How long until he drops out so this 'revolution' ends?

Oh come on. Paul doesn't stand a chance. Why bring him up? Is this problem going to go away after the elections? :roll:

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: bamacre
We tell our kids not to smoke cigarettes, we tell them not to use drugs. Stay in school, so they can get a good job, raise a family, and be happy. Most people who can afford it, move to an area with good schools. Others send their kids to private school. We tell them the dangers of unprotected sex. We make sure they have good health care. We do whatever we can to make sure our kids have a life better than our own.

And yet, at the same time, we are leaving them with a fiscal nightmare. A country on the very edge of bankruptcy. A country that will fall, and with it, the protection of their freedoms and liberties.

How can we do such a thing to our kids?

Because decade after decade the US public has decided it needs the US government to provide more and more of it's needs. In a nutshell.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Because decade after decade the US public has decided it needs the US government to provide more and more of it's needs. In a nutshell.

And it will continue.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Originally posted by: Capitalizt
Ron Paul is the only one talking about the solution to this problem...REDUCING THE SIZE OF GOVERNMENT.

Unfortunately, the American people are rejecting this idea.

Yes, way too much government. Billions of dollars being thrown at worthless departments and civil servants who end up being screwed anyways.

I don't understand how the Agriculture department has a bigger budget than Veteran's Affairs. It's just stupid.

Underfunding essential military resources while shouting "support our troops" is unfortunate irony to the max.

Why does the USDA have a $98billion budger for FY2009?

Because of nutirition assistance programs. 63% of that budget are basically entitlements to the poor.

The VA's FY2009 budget is $94billion, more than double it was under Clinton.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Originally posted by: Capitalizt
Ron Paul is the only one talking about the solution to this problem...REDUCING THE SIZE OF GOVERNMENT.

Unfortunately, the American people are rejecting this idea.

Yes, way too much government. Billions of dollars being thrown at worthless departments and civil servants who end up being screwed anyways.

I don't understand how the Agriculture department has a bigger budget than Veteran's Affairs. It's just stupid.

Underfunding essential military resources while shouting "support our troops" is unfortunate irony to the max.

I havent verified this but heard the ag dept has more workers than the ag sector. More people work in govt than do working the fields. Typical govt right there.

The USDA isnt about farming. The farm bill isnt about farming. Money going to farming in the 2008 Farm Bill and the USDA is next to nothing compared to the nutirition programs, most of which are entitlements to the poor.

The FY2009 USDA Budget 15% of the budget goes farm and commodity(subsidies) programs.

The 2008 farm bill, .21% of its massive budget goes to farm commodities(subsidies). Most of the budget, goes to nutrition programs and alternative energy. The title of the bill is the Farm, Nutirition, and Alternative Engergy Acot of 2008. Ironically, Bush is threatening to veto it because the farm commodity part is to much money. In the "farm bill" farming comes last in terms of money. Bush vetos it well, there goes the USDA budget. Everything will revert to the 1949 Farm Bill. No more nutrition programs(food stamps, school lunch programs, etc etc etc). It'll also screw the GOP.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Because decade after decade the US public has decided it needs the US government to provide more and more of it's needs. In a nutshell.

And it will continue.

Not forever.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Robor
Yeah, yeah... Only Ron Paul can save us. (sigh) How long until he drops out so this 'revolution' ends?

Oh come on. Paul doesn't stand a chance. Why bring him up? Is this problem going to go away after the elections? :roll:

I think the 'conservatives' have had their chance in office and failed miserably. Maybe that's why people aren't interested in any of them?

 

[heyheybooboo]

These are problems that can be fixed. Of course, it would have been alot easier to continue the fix 8 years ago ....

Next year we will pay $460 billion in interest on the Federal debt. By the year 2014 we will be paying over $600 billion a year in interest on the Federal debt.

Since 1981 we have paid more than $8 trillion in interest on the Federal debt. Think about that.

Thanks, NeanderCons - :disgust: - Voodoo Economics does not work. You have broken the federal gov't. I bet you're all so proud.

We went from paying down the debt $250 billion a year to increasing the Federal debt $600 billion a year. We went from reducing the interest expense more than 5% a year to increasing the interest expense 33% over the next 5 years.

The people who whine and complain about spending $5 billion a month on food stamps can kiss my ass. Fuck you. That is less than half of what we are spending each month in Iraq. That's less than 10 percent of what we spend each month in interest on the Federal debt. It's less than 10% in what we pay each month in defense spending over and above what we are paying in Iraq.

Kiss my ass. You are going down bad in November. We are going to take back the United States of America.


As far as the matter at hand it's not a big deal. It can be fixed. (1) STOP LOOTING THE TRUST FUNDS; and (2) Invest the trust funds monies in low interest loans to state, county and local gov'ts to repair our crumbling infrastructire.

$53 trillion over 75 years is nothing. It's less than 2% of total GDP over the next 75 years. And if we stop digging holes with voodoo economics our children may have reasson to look forward to the future.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
We went from paying down the debt $250 billion a year to increasing the Federal debt $600 billion a year.

Two things. The first numbers were based on assumed sustained growth. Obviously, that didn't work out well. The second number is even worse, I fear. Bush has been an economic disaster, throwing gasoline on the fire.

I wonder if in, say, 5 years, the problem will be bad enough that Congress and the President will have to acknowledge it. But really, the longer we wait, the more horrible this problem will be. Not just because of compounding interest, but because until the problem is acknowledge, more will be piled on top.

 

[ProfJohn]

Heyheybooboo perhaps you should focus on a solution instead of trying to play the blame game.

Your attempt to blame it all on the neocons is extremely false.
Look at the historic figures of deficit to GDP as show on pages 27 and 28 of this PDF 2008 FY budget
In the post WW 2/Truman era we have had deficits with both parties in charge with every possible combination of rule. Also, Bush's deficits are not much worse than those of Jimmy Carter in terms of percentage of GDP.

You should also notice that we have had a balanced budget with Republican Presidents with either a Democrat congress or a Republican congress.
And we've had balanced budgets with a Democrat President and Republican congress.

But we have NEVER had a balanced budget with a Democrat President and a Democrat congress. Although 1969 would be a Democratic budget, so I'll give you one balanced budget since 1951.