$50k, friend's dad wants a sports car

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: PowerMac4Ever

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: PowerMac4Ever
First off, Mercedes-Benz already took BMW's crown with their 5.5L Supercharged V8. The V10 doesn't compare as far as power is concerned. I don't know if you're talking about horsepower or fuel economy when you mean efficiency. When it comes to horsepower, Toyota's 3.0 VVTi 2JZ-GTE Twin Turbo easily wins against any BMW six cylinder.

You must be kidding. But the thing is, I know you're not. You're really that stupid.

Wow, you just demonstrated total ignorance in your post. You obviously have no clue how these companies design their engines if you think they are just slapping on these power adders. When it comes to the street, forced induction wins. When it comes to the road course, NA usually wins... but too bad BMWs are less and less road course cars with every redesign.

You can obtain packages for turbocharging or supercharging BMWs. The old generation of M3s was available with a supercharger package that put it up to 340hp with a 4.7s 0-60 time. The point is, the M3 is the best car in it's class. Better than the S4, the S60R and whatever else. The centerpiece of the car is the amazing engine. It's naturally aspirated, and it's the THE BEST naturally aspirated 6 cylinder engine in the world. And when you put forced induction on it, it will be the best FI 6 cylinder engine in the world.

As far as the BMW V10 versus Mercedes supercharged v8... The same argument goes. Although the BMW v10 has less displacement than the Merc v8 and almost as much power. A supercharger package will be available for the BMW V10. Estimates are in the 600-620hp range.

 

[Jombo]

Originally posted by: AutomaticErik
Please just don't get a Vette. Nothing screams midlife crisis to me more than a Vette.

how about a porsche? or any sporty ride north of 40k? they all scream midlife crisis!! nothing like seeing a balding guy driving around on a hot lil convertable from behind ^^

Actaeon, and tranquilflow: there are no auto M3s.. you can either get a manual 6spds or SMG ii. (well since SMG's introduction anyway)

if someone's willing to drop 50k on a car, in their midlife crisis, would they really go for a used one?

edit: tell him to get the tip-tro S4

 

[isekii]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: PowerMac4Ever

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: PowerMac4Ever
First off, Mercedes-Benz already took BMW's crown with their 5.5L Supercharged V8. The V10 doesn't compare as far as power is concerned. I don't know if you're talking about horsepower or fuel economy when you mean efficiency. When it comes to horsepower, Toyota's 3.0 VVTi 2JZ-GTE Twin Turbo easily wins against any BMW six cylinder.

You must be kidding. But the thing is, I know you're not. You're really that stupid.

Wow, you just demonstrated total ignorance in your post. You obviously have no clue how these companies design their engines if you think they are just slapping on these power adders. When it comes to the street, forced induction wins. When it comes to the road course, NA usually wins... but too bad BMWs are less and less road course cars with every redesign.

You can obtain packages for turbocharging or supercharging BMWs. The old generation of M3s was available with a supercharger package that put it up to 340hp with a 4.7s 0-60 time. The point is, the M3 is the best car in it's class. Better than the S4, the S60R and whatever else. The centerpiece of the car is the amazing engine. It's naturally aspirated, and it's the THE BEST naturally aspirated 6 cylinder engine in the world. And when you put forced induction on it, it will be the best FI 6 cylinder engine in the world.

As far as the BMW V10 versus Mercedes supercharged v8... The same argument goes. Although the BMW v10 has less displacement than the Merc v8 and almost as much power. A supercharger package will be available for the BMW V10. Estimates are in the 600-620hp range.

Really ? Best FI 6 cylinder in the world ?
Care to give some examples of some of the FI BMW's ?
I bet you the 2JZ-GE/GTE is a much better engine with FI.

From what I have read and heard, E46's aren't the best to boost.
It's pretty amazing that the E46 pushes out that much horsies NA, but when FI is involved, I think the 2JZ's are a better choice/bet.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: isekii

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: PowerMac4Ever

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: PowerMac4Ever
First off, Mercedes-Benz already took BMW's crown with their 5.5L Supercharged V8. The V10 doesn't compare as far as power is concerned. I don't know if you're talking about horsepower or fuel economy when you mean efficiency. When it comes to horsepower, Toyota's 3.0 VVTi 2JZ-GTE Twin Turbo easily wins against any BMW six cylinder.

You must be kidding. But the thing is, I know you're not. You're really that stupid.

Wow, you just demonstrated total ignorance in your post. You obviously have no clue how these companies design their engines if you think they are just slapping on these power adders. When it comes to the street, forced induction wins. When it comes to the road course, NA usually wins... but too bad BMWs are less and less road course cars with every redesign.

You can obtain packages for turbocharging or supercharging BMWs. The old generation of M3s was available with a supercharger package that put it up to 340hp with a 4.7s 0-60 time. The point is, the M3 is the best car in it's class. Better than the S4, the S60R and whatever else. The centerpiece of the car is the amazing engine. It's naturally aspirated, and it's the THE BEST naturally aspirated 6 cylinder engine in the world. And when you put forced induction on it, it will be the best FI 6 cylinder engine in the world.

As far as the BMW V10 versus Mercedes supercharged v8... The same argument goes. Although the BMW v10 has less displacement than the Merc v8 and almost as much power. A supercharger package will be available for the BMW V10. Estimates are in the 600-620hp range.

Really ? Best FI 6 cylinder in the world ?
Care to give some examples of some of the FI BMW's ?
I bet you the 2JZ-GE/GTE is a much better engine with FI.

From what I have read and heard, E46's aren't the best to boost.

Sure. A supercharged BMW 540i with a 4.4 liter v8 produces 454.22 horsepower and 406.02 lb/ft of torque. It does 0-60 in 4.07 seconds, and a quarter mile in 12.581 seconds at 114.86 miles per hour. It also handles like an M5 and brakes like a Porsche. So, Viper performance in a 4 door sedan. Heck, it's not even an M-series.

 

[Zebo]

mint 59 corvette convertable. I like assets not liabilities though.

 

[hysperion]

Originally posted by: Nebor
Keep in mind that with an M3, your colour and options will be severely limited, since the car is available in very limited quantities. Also, a convertible M3 stickers for $65k and a coupe for $56k, so they're both out of the price range.

ya but who pays sticker?

 

[isekii]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: isekii

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: PowerMac4Ever

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: PowerMac4Ever
First off, Mercedes-Benz already took BMW's crown with their 5.5L Supercharged V8. The V10 doesn't compare as far as power is concerned. I don't know if you're talking about horsepower or fuel economy when you mean efficiency. When it comes to horsepower, Toyota's 3.0 VVTi 2JZ-GTE Twin Turbo easily wins against any BMW six cylinder.

You must be kidding. But the thing is, I know you're not. You're really that stupid.

Wow, you just demonstrated total ignorance in your post. You obviously have no clue how these companies design their engines if you think they are just slapping on these power adders. When it comes to the street, forced induction wins. When it comes to the road course, NA usually wins... but too bad BMWs are less and less road course cars with every redesign.

You can obtain packages for turbocharging or supercharging BMWs. The old generation of M3s was available with a supercharger package that put it up to 340hp with a 4.7s 0-60 time. The point is, the M3 is the best car in it's class. Better than the S4, the S60R and whatever else. The centerpiece of the car is the amazing engine. It's naturally aspirated, and it's the THE BEST naturally aspirated 6 cylinder engine in the world. And when you put forced induction on it, it will be the best FI 6 cylinder engine in the world.

As far as the BMW V10 versus Mercedes supercharged v8... The same argument goes. Although the BMW v10 has less displacement than the Merc v8 and almost as much power. A supercharger package will be available for the BMW V10. Estimates are in the 600-620hp range.

Really ? Best FI 6 cylinder in the world ?
Care to give some examples of some of the FI BMW's ?
I bet you the 2JZ-GE/GTE is a much better engine with FI.

From what I have read and heard, E46's aren't the best to boost.

Sure. A supercharged BMW 540i with a 4.4 liter v8 produces 454.22 horsepower and 406.02 lb/ft of torque. It does 0-60 in 4.07 seconds, and a quarter mile in 12.581 seconds at 114.86 miles per hour. It also handles like an M5 and brakes like a Porsche. So, Viper performance in a 4 door sedan. Heck, it's not even an M-series.

Why are you jumping to the 5 series ?
You were talking about the I6 on the M3's
why are you avoiding the subject ?
You said that BMW M3 engine "is" supposedly BEST NA engine which I can agree with some what, but it'll be the best FI I6 engine if you boost it and I refuted it.
Check the site, even a BMW Tuner says that with the compression ratio of 11.5:1 it's unreliable if you were to boost it.
http://www.evosport.com/product/e46m3_super_p2.html

 

[imported_Mike]

Originally posted by: AgaBooga

Originally posted by: isekii
Why would he listen to a kid in purchasing a car ?
What are you like 16 ?

At my age, I have an unbiased point of view right now and I follow this stuff more than him

Do you have a superiority problem? I find most adults who don't take advice from those younger than them even if they're right have a huge superiority complex issue.

Yes, I am 16, but I sure hope you don't judge me any differently because of my age.

Thats the problem, especially when you say his budget is $50k and you even dare to throw a STI in there. If the car isn't going to be driven like a sports car, why even bother with the STI. From what you have written so far, he probably would much rather perfer comfort & lux over performance.

 

[Nebor]

Supercharged M3 vs. Lamborghini Diablo

Yeah, so now what, tough guy? 😛

 

[boyRacer]

Originally posted by: Nebor
Supercharged M3 vs. Lamborghini Diablo

Yeah, so now what, tough guy? 😛

They never get a free run... 😕

EDIT: If you're going to count that in then you might as well count this in too.

 

[zixxer]

WTF

get an S4. My girlfriends dad is really large (6 foot 4, 350+ lbs easy) and fits right in.. granted there's no backseat room.. But he LOVES it

 

[PowerMac4Ever]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: PowerMac4Ever

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: PowerMac4Ever
First off, Mercedes-Benz already took BMW's crown with their 5.5L Supercharged V8. The V10 doesn't compare as far as power is concerned. I don't know if you're talking about horsepower or fuel economy when you mean efficiency. When it comes to horsepower, Toyota's 3.0 VVTi 2JZ-GTE Twin Turbo easily wins against any BMW six cylinder.

You must be kidding. But the thing is, I know you're not. You're really that stupid.

Wow, you just demonstrated total ignorance in your post. You obviously have no clue how these companies design their engines if you think they are just slapping on these power adders. When it comes to the street, forced induction wins. When it comes to the road course, NA usually wins... but too bad BMWs are less and less road course cars with every redesign.

You can obtain packages for turbocharging or supercharging BMWs. The old generation of M3s was available with a supercharger package that put it up to 340hp with a 4.7s 0-60 time. The point is, the M3 is the best car in it's class. Better than the S4, the S60R and whatever else. The centerpiece of the car is the amazing engine. It's naturally aspirated, and it's the THE BEST naturally aspirated 6 cylinder engine in the world. And when you put forced induction on it, it will be the best FI 6 cylinder engine in the world.

As far as the BMW V10 versus Mercedes supercharged v8... The same argument goes. Although the BMW v10 has less displacement than the Merc v8 and almost as much power. A supercharger package will be available for the BMW V10. Estimates are in the 600-620hp range.

Hahahaha, do you actually think slapping a supercharger or turbocharger on a BMW M engine would be effective? Hell no! They're all high-compression NA engines. In order for one to effectively turbocharge an M engine, one would need beefier rods, low compression pistons, thicker headgasket, and more. Did you actually think that, because the NA 2JZ makes 220hp and the TT makes 350hp, the M3 will reliably make 450hp with turbocharging? Uhh, right. THis is is why I do not like natural aspiration... it's a pain in the ass to get real horsepower out of them.

I laugh at you when you say that a FI M3 engine would be the best FI 6 cylinder in the world. Hmm, well the 2JZ has internals to support 900rwhp STOCk and has a boost-friendly 8.5:1 compression ratio. Best of all, back in the early 90's when the engine was designed, the Toyota engineers didn't give a sh*t about emissions. Performance was priority one with that engine. Too bad those days are over.

As for your BMW V10 arguement, a supercharger would be nice... but you shouldn't talk about it until one is actually released and dyno charts are posted. Saying a car is better because some tuner "will" release an FI package in the future is stupid. That said, the supercharged E55 will undoubtedly be easier to tune than any M engine. You can buy a $4000 kit (which is basically a new pulley and ecu chip) from one of the German tuners and the E55 will have enough horsepower to make high 11-second passes in the quarter mile.

 

[CChaos]

I vote Boxster.

 

[vi edit]

Automatic sports car for an older gentleman?

Hrrrm....

I'll continue to beat the dead horse and say the C6 vette. Audi S4 would be my second choice.

In the vette, it will take you longer to say "I hate automatics" than notice the actual speed differences between the auto and the 6 speed.

The Audi is just a much more luxury oriented and functional vehicle that's about an "8.5" on the "fast" meter vs. the Vette's solid "10.0".

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: bR

Originally posted by: Nebor
Supercharged M3 vs. Lamborghini Diablo

Yeah, so now what, tough guy? 😛

They never get a free run... 😕

EDIT: If you're going to count that in then you might as well count this in too.

Wow, that supra was faster than a Lamborghini! And with those heavy tanks of helium in the back weighing him down too! He must sell balloons or somethin'.

 

[PowerMac4Ever]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: bR

Originally posted by: Nebor
Supercharged M3 vs. Lamborghini Diablo

Yeah, so now what, tough guy? 😛

They never get a free run... 😕

EDIT: If you're going to count that in then you might as well count this in too.

Wow, that supra was faster than a Lamborghini! And with those heavy tanks of helium in the back weighing him down too! He must sell balloons or somethin'.

If you're going to attempt a joke, atleast have it make sense (helium is lighter than oxygen...)

 

Vette or the STi.

 

[KEV1N]

My vote for the M3!

 

[MasterAndCommander]

$50K? My vote - 2 '05 Mustang GT's (a red one and a black one). The auto can do 0-60 in 5.1s, the 1/4 mile 13.6s @ 99mph...not bad for an automatic $25k car.

 

[JulesMaximus]

STi is ONLY available with a 6 speed manual transmission.

I'm pretty sure the Mustang Cobra is also manual only.

 

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
STi is ONLY available with a 6 speed manual transmission.

I'm pretty sure the Mustang Cobra is also manual only.

Forgot about that.

Vette hands down then.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: PowerMac4Ever

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: bR

Originally posted by: Nebor
Supercharged M3 vs. Lamborghini Diablo

Yeah, so now what, tough guy? 😛

They never get a free run... 😕

EDIT: If you're going to count that in then you might as well count this in too.

Wow, that supra was faster than a Lamborghini! And with those heavy tanks of helium in the back weighing him down too! He must sell balloons or somethin'.

If you're going to attempt a joke, atleast have it make sense (helium is lighter than oxygen...)

If so, what keeps the helium from floating away? That's right, the tanks... and how much do they weigh?

 

[Howard]

By the way, you should all stop talking about efficiency, and start using the term "specific output" (HP/L, or more preferably kW/L), because efficiency has nothing to do with how much power you can squeeze out of a given displacement.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: PowerMac4Ever

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: bR

Originally posted by: Nebor
Supercharged M3 vs. Lamborghini Diablo

Yeah, so now what, tough guy? 😛

They never get a free run... 😕

EDIT: If you're going to count that in then you might as well count this in too.

Wow, that supra was faster than a Lamborghini! And with those heavy tanks of helium in the back weighing him down too! He must sell balloons or somethin'.

If you're going to attempt a joke, atleast have it make sense (helium is lighter than oxygen...)

If so, what keeps the helium from floating away? That's right, the tanks... and how much do they weigh?

It's good to have someone else make PowerMac4Ever look like an idiot.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Howard
By the way, you should all stop talking about efficiency, and start using the term "specific output" (HP/L, or more preferably kW/L), because efficiency has nothing to do with how much power you can squeeze out of a given displacement.

You're right. I was equating efficieny to horsepower per liter. What is that called? 😱