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50+ year-old woman kills attacker in self-defense

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HAL9000 said:
I think, maybe he's trying to rape her, hurt her, kill her. I also think: It could equally be any of these, or all of them or none of them.
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So; correct me if I'm wrong but you're argument is that she could not have been 100% sure that she would have been raped and killed? Sure; nothing is 100% I will grant you that, but I would say the chances were above 99% that was the intent. If that was not the case she would have been arrested.
 
HAL9000 said:
I've not admitted insecurities or paranoia, so I don't know where you're getting that from.

Your entire argument falls apart on this basis.
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Orly?

I would love to just be me, but my personality is paranoid, as well as that (haven't mentioned this yet) I have borderline personality disorder and believe me if I let that part of me show, people would not be interested for very long, it's all very well wanting to be yourself all the time, but when part of that is a mental health condition, you have to calm it down and cut it back in order for other people to accept you.
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Insecurity is definitely a problem in my life, which mainly stems from not feeling like I fit in anywhere particularly.
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Guess again. I forgot to add BPD to the list of reasons I believe your opinions are not valid.
 
HAL9000 said:
I think, maybe he's trying to rape her, hurt her, kill her. I also think: It could equally be any of these, or all of them or none of them.



Confirmed.
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The intruder made the decision to break the law and break into her home. She didn't make the decision to be raped/murdered/have house broken into.

Yes, if someone asked me "would you rather be raped or murdered?" I would most likely answer raped. However, in this case, the woman was minding her own business in her own home. He chose to take actions that led to his death. The woman shouldn't have to concede that she should be raped instead of taking his life. She never should have been put into the situation by the assailant to begin with.

FWIW, I own a lot of guns. My house has been burglarized. We have castle law where I live. ANYONE breaking into my home, for whatever reason, will be killed. PERIOD.
 
Apple Of Sodom said:
The intruder made the decision to break the law and break into her home. She didn't make the decision to be raped/murdered/have house broken into.

Yes, if someone asked me "would you rather be raped or murdered?" I would most likely answer raped. However, in this case, the woman was minding her own business in her own home. He chose to take actions that led to his death. The woman shouldn't have to concede that she should be raped instead of taking his life. She never should have been put into the situation by the assailant to begin with.

FWIW, I own a lot of guns. My house has been burglarized. We have castle law where I live. ANYONE breaking into my home, for whatever reason, will be killed. PERIOD.
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This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This.
 
HAL9000 said:
ASSUMPTIONS!
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Assumptions are part of life, denying it is just plain stupid...you just choose to assume on the side of a criminals safety over those who should matter more, your loved ones.

HAL9000 said:
I have said that, but that doesn't affect how I care about my family. When I'm actually in that situation I would do what is best for my family as I care about them more, then I should be arrested if I kill the guy.
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You admit you would make the moral, proper, legal and LOGICAL decision given the situation? About time...and you shouldn't be arrested, you should be locked up in a psych ward so the sane world doesn't have to deal with you.
 
dpodblood said:
So; correct me if I'm wrong but you're argument is that she could not have been 100% sure that she would have been raped and killed? Sure; nothing is 100% I will grant you that, but I would say the chances were above 99% that was the intent. If that was not the case she would have been arrested.
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She was 100% sure he broke into her house and was an unwanted intruder. I would have killed him even he it was clear he was trying to rob me. HE made the decision to break in and never should have forced the woman to decide his fate.

Here is a tip for criminals and mentally incompetent people like HAL9000: don't do anything illegal or immoral to other people because there are a lot of us that do not believe human life has an intrinsic value. I don't care why you are standing in my house; I will kill you for intruding.
 
shortylickens said:
This issue comes up a lot and to be frank I dont give a shit. On the large scale, with all the gunshot victims heading to hospitals every year the evidence is pretty clear to me: 22's are NOT reliable weapons. They are fine for squirrels and maybe chipmunks, anything human sized needs a larger round, with a lot more powder.

If she managed to save her ass with a 22 then good for her but she got lucky, and I sure as hell wouldnt carry one around. .380 Hydrashoks are the minimum. 25 and 32 are unacceptable, and I dont even think they make good hollow points for them.
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It is quite possible that the piece of shit criminal was shot in the chest, which caused internal bleeding in the lung area. The fact that he ran outside, collapsed and died supports this theory that he did not die outright from the gunshot, but from internal bleeding and respiratory failure.

The .22 has the ability to do some damage as long as the proper body target area is hit. The man who tried to assassinate Ronald Reagan shot with a .22 pistol, injuring the president in the lungs and almost killed him.
 
Apple Of Sodom said:
The intruder made the decision to break the law and break into her home. She didn't make the decision to be raped/murdered/have house broken into.

Yes, if someone asked me "would you rather be raped or murdered?" I would most likely answer raped. However, in this case, the woman was minding her own business in her own home. He chose to take actions that led to his death. The woman shouldn't have to concede that she should be raped instead of taking his life. She never should have been put into the situation by the assailant to begin with.

FWIW, I own a lot of guns. My house has been burglarized. We have castle law where I live. ANYONE breaking into my home, for whatever reason, will be killed. PERIOD.
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Also there is a good chance that she would have been both raped and murdered. It's not an either or thing.
 
HAL9000, how exactly can we be SURE of anything? Does he have to have her panties off before she is sure she is being raped? Does he have to have the tip in? Does he have to ejaculate? At what point are you going to say "Oh, yeah, ok motherfucker, this IS a rape! Its on!"
 
Apple Of Sodom said:
HAL9000, how exactly can we be SURE of anything? Does he have to have her panties off before she is sure she is being raped? Does he have to have the tip in? Does he have to ejaculate? At what point are you going to say "Oh, yeah, ok motherfucker, this IS a rape! Its on!"
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"Ooh now that I have confirmed the rape could I please have my gun back Mr. rapist? Also could you confirm whether or not your intent was to murder me post raping."
 
dpodblood said:
Also there is a good chance that she would have been both raped and murdered. It's not an either or thing.
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Exactly. But according to Neckbeard she was supposed to wait to see the outcome? That is like standing in front of a train and telling yourself "Well, it MIGHT not be coming for me...I'm going to wait here on this track to see what happens."

It seems as though it is pretty safe to assume that anyone breaking into your home is not there for a good will check up. Criminals need to take note that homeowners don't have bloodlust. We don't WANT to kill someone. BUT if put into the position we will. Don't want to die? Then don't break into my house. It is simple as that.

It is clear to us that HAL9000's logic fails. He clearly has some sort of mental disorder if he cannot see that while rape is "better" than murder, self-defense is NOT murder and any intruder could avoid the situation by not intruding in the first place, regardless of intent.
 
dpodblood said:
"Ooh now that I have confirmed the rape could I please have my gun back Mr. rapist? Also could you confirm whether or not your intent was to murder me post raping."
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And is it really his intent to rape? What if he is a sleepwalker and simply acting out a fantasy?

Or better yet, lets take a more logical approach. As we all know, on an atomic level, it is impossible for two objects to actually touch...therefore the rapists penis never actually touch the walls of the vagina, thus a rape didn't occur.
 
Apple Of Sodom said:
Exactly. But according to Neckbeard she was supposed to wait to see the outcome? That is like standing in front of a train and telling yourself "Well, it MIGHT not be coming for me...I'm going to wait here on this track to see what happens."

It seems as though it is pretty safe to assume that anyone breaking into your home is not there for a good will check up. Criminals need to take note that homeowners don't have bloodlust. We don't WANT to kill someone. BUT if put into the position we will. Don't want to die? Then don't break into my house. It is simple as that.

It is clear to us that HAL9000's logic fails. He clearly has some sort of mental disorder if he cannot see that while rape is "better" than murder, self-defense is NOT murder and any intruder could avoid the situation by not intruding in the first place, regardless of intent.
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Several mental disorders, as I've pointed out.
 
Guaranteed the woman did not want to kill him. She probably already feels guilt for doing so, even though she is not at fault in any way. In fact she will have psychological issues because of the whole ordeal, but it still beats being raped and/or murdered.

Let me make this perfectly clear: I do not condone killing some one even for breaking into your home, but when that person puts your life/well-being or the life/well-being of your loved ones at risk all bets are off. The assailant is DEAD BECAUSE OF OWN HIS ACTIONS, NOT THE ACTIONS OF THE WOMAN.
 
Just for grins I want to define logic for good 'ole Neckbeard...

Logic (from the Greek λογική logik&#275😉[1] is the formal systematic study of the principles of valid inference and correct reasoning.

Let's see here, valid inference and correct reasoning...how can someone not validy infer and correctly reason that someone breaking into their home was there to do harm rather than say borrow a cup of sugar? How could they logically do that? I would have to assume a mental defect by deductive logic...
 
corwin said:
Just for grins I want to define logic for good 'ole Neckbeard...

Logic (from the Greek λογική logik&#275😉[1] is the formal systematic study of the principles of valid inference and correct reasoning.

Let's see here, valid inference and correct reasoning...how can someone not validy infer and correctly reason that someone breaking into their home was there to do harm rather than say borrow a cup of sugar? How could they logically do that? I would have to assume a mental defect by deductive logic...
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I think this is his proposition:

Rape is less evil than taking a life. Therefore, it is better for someone to be raped than for someone to be killed.

This is fine and it is (generally speaking) an accurate statement. However, there is more than comes into play with this that he is not considering, such as the inclusion of someone who is FORCING another person to make the decision. This where the logic breaks down and it is no longer a binary choice and a third option should be put into play, which is "do no harm to me." So now our options are "I do no harm to you, I rape you, or you defend yourself against me." The assailant has taken "I do no harm to you" off the table as it is clear that he is there to do some sort of harm... the assailant has FORCED the victim to choose to defend themselves by whatever means necessary. Would it be better to disable the assailant? Yes, I believe MOST of us would try to do that...but when faced with the basic biology of flight or fight it would be difficult to make the critical judgment to simply disable someone. Shooting them in the foot with a .22 will not stop someone. If they are high on PCP, a shot to the face would barely stop them.

In short, HAL9000 is fallaciously making this into a binary choice: kill someone or rape someone - which is worse? And that isn't really the scenario. The correct choice is to not put someone in the position where they have to defend themselves.
 
Apple Of Sodom said:
I think this is his proposition:

Rape is less evil than taking a life. Therefore, it is better for someone to be raped than for someone to be killed.
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It is better for a victim to be raped vs. killed. That is correct.

What is ALSO correct is that it is better for a criminal be killed than a victim be raped.
 
It would be a great world if everyone would just stop responding to HAL. If nobody ever responded or replied to him, do you think he would post so much?
 
AMDZen said:
It would be a great world if everyone would just stop responding to HAL. If nobody ever responded or replied to him, do you think he would post so much?
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Personally I have no problem with the amount he posts or even the controversial topics he comes up with. Nothing wrong with a good debate. But in this case there is no question. The woman did the right thing. The only thing she could do with the options the criminal gave her. She's lucky to be alive.
 
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