Engineer
Elite Member
- Oct 9, 1999
- 39,230
- 701
- 126
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2014/08/18/zero-retirement-savings/14070167/
More than 1/3 of Americans have NO retirement savings.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2014/08/18/zero-retirement-savings/14070167/
More than 1/3 of Americans have NO retirement savings.
iPhone / SmartPhone sales alone tell a different tale than "5 signs Americans are flat-out broke. I mean, really? rly? srsly?
What are you smoking? Also, unless we put a gun to people's heads, no one is going to increase their 401k contributions anymore than the company match. Nor are we going to stop them from taking it out early with the 10% penalty. We tried making a required retirement account - it's called social security and it is failing miserably.
The country in general though, is far from "flat-broke". I just got back from Brazil for the world cup where I have some family from my wife. A little international travel will open your eyes. Oh the horror! We are SO FLAT BROKE we can't even afford a flat screen LCD TV!! WE have to have an old fat one DAMNIT!!!
What are you smoking? Also, unless we put a gun to people's heads, no one is going to increase their 401k contributions anymore than the company match. Nor are we going to stop them from taking it out early with the 10% penalty. We tried making a required retirement account - it's called social security and it is failing miserably.
The country in general though, is far from "flat-broke". I just got back from Brazil for the world cup where I have some family from my wife. A little international travel will open your eyes. Oh the horror! We are SO FLAT BROKE we can't even afford a flat screen LCD TV!! WE have to have an old fat one DAMNIT!!!
OverVolt
Lifer
- Aug 31, 2002
- 14,278
- 89
- 91
There are a dwindling number of jobs that offer 401k contributions...
....
...
....
derp.
Then start your own IRA? I just started one last year with Vanguard to diversify even though my company has a 401k I vest $17.5k in every year? You don't need a 401k. It's Called Individual Retirement Account for a reason. Nor was that the main point of my post...
Also, please back-up that source, you are mistaking "401k" with pensions. Almost everyone offers a 401k. The amount they offer to match is up in the air, obviously.
OverVolt
Lifer
- Aug 31, 2002
- 14,278
- 89
- 91
Typical Gen X doesn't know whats coming with regard to wages. Go get that new BMW. DO NOT LOSE YOUR JOB. Just saying.
I dislike ZH by the way but they were the only ones with the data series in a chart that I wanted.
From here:
http://www.bls.gov/schedule/archives/realer_nr.htm
Wages have been steadily down since 2008. They are essentially lowering wages by attrition, as people get burned out or quit they hire someone for the same job at a huge pay cut. I know people making say, $50k in a job that used to pay $75k.
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Engineer
Elite Member
- Oct 9, 1999
- 39,230
- 701
- 126
Sadly, can't put as much in an IRA as a 401k nor do you get any match!
My company, very small, only has a SIMPLE IRA with a $12,000 contribution limit and 3% match (I do it all). I also have fully funded IRA's ($5,500 per year each) for myself and my wife. I really wish I had the 401k's extra $5,500 per year to do. Wife has no 401k but does have some sort of pension.
Sattern
Senior member
I think this is a big problem that will cause many people to go broke due to the lack of keeping lifestyles consistent.
The neo generation has bad lifestyle habits and no intent to work.
Most people I know have more debt than I could even imagine, while I have more money than people twice my age.
The neo generation has bad lifestyle habits and no intent to work.
Most people I know have more debt than I could even imagine, while I have more money than people twice my age.
spacejamz
Lifer
- Mar 31, 2003
- 10,993
- 1,742
- 126
But you have to agree that wasn't the norm back then...I think a Commodore 64 was around $650 with the tape drive...
Whoever posted that $5k-10k amount even admitted later that was several computers purchased over a decade....
spacejamz
Lifer
- Mar 31, 2003
- 10,993
- 1,742
- 126
Correct...we are not flat broke....but many are just one pay check away from being flat broke....
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
- 26,907
- 174
- 106
Yeah. Mine was pretty much top-of-the-line.
I had it custom built from Micron. Used them because they were the only company to have 8mb slabs of ram available. (When I needed to upgrade ram I could just buy 2 more slabs. Cheaper than getting 4x4mb and replacing it all.)
I also had just about every add-in card (modem, gfx etc), tape back up system etc and some business apps as well.
Fern
Zaap
Diamond Member
- Jun 12, 2008
- 7,162
- 424
- 126
Then people should educate themselves en masse about what a job pays, and not settle for less. Collectively, people shouldn't sell themselves and entire industries out for $25k less than they should be making.
But of course we've become a country that's too stupid to even know it's suicidal to throw the border wide open and allow in millions of people willing to jobs for virtually nothing. The same morons are still pretending that displacing millions of citizens out of jobs that used to pay better wages with cheap illegal labor, has no effect on wages as a whole as those displaced workers do the same thing up the pay-scale. (displace people who used to command more money).
There's several reasons I don't feel sorry in the least for most of the whiney dimbulbs caught up in it:
#1: people were warned, they didn't listen (and STILL don') and still continue to do the same stupid shit and support the same dumbass political tricks that leads to lower wages and govt and big companies laughing all the way to bailout the banks.
#2: people think they're special, and so they believe their salvation will come not from actually changing anything or doing anything different- but from whining long enough and loud enough that everyone will come to feel sorry for them and realize "Yes, how can the world's most special people suffer like this? I mean all those poor people around the world suffering? FUCK THEM - THEY aren't special. They're just dirty foreigners, they get what they deserve. But ultra-special Americans not getting everythign they want? HOLY SHIT, now that's a CRISIS! Drop everything, get those special people everything they rightfully deserve just for existing!"
#3: an add on to #2, a lot of those "special people" are self-centered, whiney fucking pricks, and I don't feel sorry for fucking pricks getting what they deserve.
#4: People need to wake up and go back to square one. Bottom line: MOST people are just whining for SOMEONE ELSE to do or change something in favor of them- raise a wage, or keep a job in the country, or whatever- JUST 'CUZ. There's no real *thought* by most put into what's anyone's real incentive to do any of that, vs. what is their incentive that's making them do the opposite. Therefore, it's all just a lot of hand-wringing and bullshit if people really think anyone else is going to drop everything, feel sorry, and do something for them "just cuz". (And no, threats of revolution, dumb guilt-tripping and other forms of pity-party fantasy bullshit aren't actually REAL WORLD compelling reasons for anyone to give a shit, I mean REAL reasons.)
#5: Once people realize the solutions are never going to come from without, but from within... then what? When do people start realizing that if there's one collection of people getting together, identifying a need for something, creating a profitable way of doing it, and making money at it to the point that you're eventually whining at that collection of people for a job and why don't they float your lifestyle you deserve.... HOW long until it dawns that you need forget the whining at those that have already done it, go back to square one, identify the need yourself, do it better, and cut the old middle-men out of it. It's what past generations did in the face of doors being slammed in their face from the old guard. "Okay these guys that just slammed a door in my face are making money at software. Fuck them. Me and my group of people will make money at software." OH BUT THAT'S SOOOOO HARD!!!! Yeah sure, compared to whining at a slammed door.
1prophet
Diamond Member
- Aug 17, 2005
- 5,313
- 534
- 126
Just like pensions before them
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles...0001424052748703959604576152792748707356.html
The great 401k scam
The 401(k) generation is beginning to retire, and it isn't a pretty sight.
The retirement savings plans that many baby boomers thought would see them through old age are falling short in many cases.
The median household headed by a person aged 60 to 62 with a 401(k) account has less than one-quarter of what is needed in that account to maintain its standard of living in retirement, according to data compiled by the Federal Reserve and analyzed by the Center for Retirement Research at Boston College for The Wall Street Journal.
Even counting Social Security and any pensions or other savings, most 401(k) participants appear to have insufficient savings. Data from other sources also show big gaps between savings and what people need, and the financial crisis has made things worse.
This analysis uses estimates of 401(k) balances from the end of 2010 and of salaries from 2009. It assumes people need 85% of their working income after they retire in order to maintain their standard of living, a common yardstick.
Facing shortfalls, many people are postponing retirement, moving to cheaper housing, buying less-expensive food, cutting back on travel, taking bigger risks with their investments and making other sacrifices they never imagined.
Enlarge Image
"Inevitably, we find that, for the average person, there is not enough there," says financial adviser Paul Merritt of NTrust Wealth Management in Virginia Beach, Va., who has found himself advising many retirement-age people with too little savings. "The discussion turns out to be: What kind of part-time work do you want to do after you retire?"
He has clients contemplating part-time work into their 70s, he says.
Tax-deferred 401(k) retirement accounts came into wide use in the 1980s, making baby boomers trying to retire now among the first to rely heavily on them.
The problems are widespread, especially among middle-income earners. About 60% of households nearing retirement age have 401(k)-type accounts, according to government data, and those represent the majority of most people's savings. The situation is less dire for those in a higher income bracket, who tend to save more outside their 401(k) accounts and who have more margin for error if their retirement returns fall below the recommended 85% figure.
Pr0d1gy
Diamond Member
- Jan 30, 2005
- 7,774
- 0
- 76
Interesting article although I do question the part where the are working off the number $75,000 in terms of needed annual retirement income. If we go by the numbers in the article retirees will get $45,000 a year or pretty much median household income and that doesn't include any pension income. It might not be the glorious travel to a new continent every quarter but certainly doable given that many Americans already do that
I also found this odd:
By all of $4k a year. So the retirees would only have $71,000 a year in annual income - thats not a huge shortfall
Seems like you are the one with the warped vision. If you are 'barely hanging on' then you have no, zero, nada extra money to put anywhere let alone retirement savings. You are barely hanging on you are scraping by on sustenance level foods - rice, popcorn and beans types of stuff. You drive a car you got for free that leaks and stalls because you can't fix it and when it dies hope you can at least get it home so you don't have to get a tow you can't pay for. No cable, no cell phone. Living in the cheapest apartment in the bad area of town and picking the top floor because while the complex is broken into a lot the thieves appear to have an aversion to stairs. This I have done and putting 8% away was a luxury I could not afford. Come back when you have experienced actual financial hardship and we'll see how your view 'barely' has changed.
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Pr0d1gy
Diamond Member
- Jan 30, 2005
- 7,774
- 0
- 76
sportage
Lifer
- Feb 1, 2008
- 11,492
- 3,163
- 136
I don't know.
A lot of fancy new cars on the road.
But true, Americans have way too much debt. Especially credit card.
And that 401K is about as flakey as a crap shoot at the local casino. Remember 2008?
$100,000 today, $20,000 tomorrow, or when you retire.
Thing is, there are absolutely no guarantees when it comes to that 401K and no possible way to foresee the economic future.
All it would takes is one more GW president, and poof, bye bye 401K.
And no guarantee that a newly elected black president would come along to repair things.
My advice to any kid looking for a job is to get with a company that offers a pension.
When I was young I worked 13 years for the most popular soda company, and started collection a life pension when I was 55.
No 401K, certainly no average employee 401K, can top a lifetime pension.
With the 401K, when its gone its gone.
And the republicans hope to privatize Social security turning it over to the stock market.
YeAh...RiGhT...
Imagine your moms social security check ending when she turns 80 because her funds have been exhausted. And old mom, or dad, or both, have to apply at Walmart as door greeter?
Or worse, move in with YOU!
And people wonder why Americans are broke?
Maybe, just maybe, Americans tend to make very poor extremely disastrious decisions when in the voting booth. Ya think?
Ps. But I really don't care about the stupid Americans, anymore. Sorry.
My family inherited oil wells now drilling in North Dakota.
A lot of fancy new cars on the road.
But true, Americans have way too much debt. Especially credit card.
And that 401K is about as flakey as a crap shoot at the local casino. Remember 2008?
$100,000 today, $20,000 tomorrow, or when you retire.
Thing is, there are absolutely no guarantees when it comes to that 401K and no possible way to foresee the economic future.
All it would takes is one more GW president, and poof, bye bye 401K.
And no guarantee that a newly elected black president would come along to repair things.
My advice to any kid looking for a job is to get with a company that offers a pension.
When I was young I worked 13 years for the most popular soda company, and started collection a life pension when I was 55.
No 401K, certainly no average employee 401K, can top a lifetime pension.
With the 401K, when its gone its gone.
And the republicans hope to privatize Social security turning it over to the stock market.
YeAh...RiGhT...
Imagine your moms social security check ending when she turns 80 because her funds have been exhausted. And old mom, or dad, or both, have to apply at Walmart as door greeter?
Or worse, move in with YOU!
And people wonder why Americans are broke?
Maybe, just maybe, Americans tend to make very poor extremely disastrious decisions when in the voting booth. Ya think?
Ps. But I really don't care about the stupid Americans, anymore. Sorry.
My family inherited oil wells now drilling in North Dakota.
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OverVolt
Lifer
- Aug 31, 2002
- 14,278
- 89
- 91
The meek shall inherit the Earth, but not its mineral rights.I don't know.
A lot of fancy new cars on the road.
But true, Americans have way too much debt. Especially credit card.
And that 401K is about as flakey as a crap shoot at the local casino. Remember 2008?
$100,000 today, $20,000 tomorrow, or when you retire.
Thing is, there are absolutely no guarantees when it comes to that 401K and no possible way to foresee the economic future.
All it would takes is one more GW president, and poof, bye bye 401K.
And no guarantee that a newly elected black president would come along to repair things.
My advice to any kid looking for a job is to get with a company that offers a pension.
When I was young I worked 13 years for the most popular soda company, and started collection a life pension when I was 55.
No 401K, certainly no average employee 401K, can top a lifetime pension.
With the 401K, when its gone its gone.
And the republicans hope to privatize Social security turning it over to the stock market.
YeAh...RiGhT...
Imagine your moms social security check ending when she turns 80 because her funds have been exhausted. And old mom, or dad, or both, have to apply at Walmart as door greeter?
Or worse, move in with YOU!
And people wonder why Americans are broke?
Maybe, just maybe, Americans tend to make very poor extremely disastrious decisions when in the voting booth. Ya think?
Ps. But I really don't care about the stupid Americans, anymore. Sorry.
My family inherited oil wells now drilling in North Dakota.
J. Paul Getty
Anyway I had rich parents for awhile. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
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and again, whose fault is that?
"NO! I CANT GO ANOTHER MONTH ON THE iPHONE 3GS ITS TOO SLOW!!!!".
Do you know how much it costs for the average person who has a paid for phone to get smartphone service? < $40/month. The problem is everyone signs another 2 year contract and then it becomes a $215/month bill for 2 people to have a fuckin' cell-phone in their pocket.
Unless you're saying we shouldn't have the right to be spending as we please? Mind you, I despise of retards that can't manage their money for shit - but I will defend their right to do it.
I don't know.
A lot of fancy new cars on the road.
But true, Americans have way too much debt. Especially credit card.
And that 401K is about as flakey as a crap shoot at the local casino. Remember 2008?
$100,000 today, $20,000 tomorrow, or when you retire.
Thing is, there are absolutely no guarantees when it comes to that 401K and no possible way to foresee the economic future.
All it would takes is one more GW president, and poof, bye bye 401K.
And no guarantee that a newly elected black president would come along to repair things.
My advice to any kid looking for a job is to get with a company that offers a pension.
When I was young I worked 13 years for the most popular soda company, and started collection a life pension when I was 55.
No 401K, certainly no average employee 401K, can top a lifetime pension.
With the 401K, when its gone its gone.
And the republicans hope to privatize Social security turning it over to the stock market.
YeAh...RiGhT...
Imagine your moms social security check ending when she turns 80 because her funds have been exhausted. And old mom, or dad, or both, have to apply at Walmart as door greeter?
Or worse, move in with YOU!
And people wonder why Americans are broke?
Maybe, just maybe, Americans tend to make very poor extremely disastrious decisions when in the voting booth. Ya think?
Ps. But I really don't care about the stupid Americans, anymore. Sorry.
My family inherited oil wells now drilling in North Dakota.
Jeebus christ you're retarded.
1) What do you think a pension fund is consistent upon?
2) If a company has a bankruptcy, where do you think part of the money is going to come from?
3) If the economy crumbles again ('08) - Guess what? It's going to recover. Just like every other economic downturn ('30s, '00). Because if it doesn't recover, you're going to have a LOT BIGGER things to worry about than your retirement fund.
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OverVolt
Lifer
- Aug 31, 2002
- 14,278
- 89
- 91
Um, do exactly what his parents say for dat free money. Or live in their basement until payday.
If, and this is a bit if... they haven't blown it already. :awe:
Been there done that. It ain't pretty psychologically. Currently live on my own and own everything myself. I saw the light let me tell you. My parents were baaaaad with money. Its his parents' money, not his. It'll sink in one day.
I know another girl whose parents inherited... honestly not all that much money, an engineer and a nurse. Both stopped working. They didn't inherit THAT much money that they could both afford to stop working but little does their daughter know about the real world, and of course she doesn't cause her parents aren't living in it either.
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OverVolt
Lifer
- Aug 31, 2002
- 14,278
- 89
- 91
If anyone wants to make a chart using this data: http://www.bls.gov/schedule/archives/realer_nr.htm
That'd be great.
That'd be great.
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