4th times a charm, AIG bailed out again

[jman19]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Deritives= credit default swaps. An insurance company like AIG would be regulated, but with the magic word of credit default swaps, AIG managed to aviod all regulations.

Um, no. Credit Default Swaps are a type of derivative, but a derivative is not necessarily a CDS.

 

[manowar821]

It was ridiculous the first time. But hey, don't take my word for it, just wait and see what one of the main tenants of fascism does for the US of A. Oh it's going to be a RIOT of a time.

 

[StinkyPinky]

The entire US finance sector is run by a bunch of cowboys.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: JACKDRUID
I would hate to bail them out again... but they really are a bit too big to fail for now... we definately need to tear it apart once/if depression is over.

Just like we needed to save Kuwait now, and have them implement democratic reforms later. Not so much disagreeing as expressing the cycnicism so well deserved.

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: eskimospy
The only way we would never see any of this money again would be if the net worth of AIG's assets were to become zero. Even the wannabe economists on here can't be that dumb.

Not really. Assest just need to be lower than liabilities. If you own 5 trillion in assets but have 5 trillion and 5 dollars in liabilities, the shareholders won't get any cash.The government(treasury in this case) doesn't own ALL of AIG's debt.

Another point to make is that all of our investment into AIG isn't in pure debt.We still have that 40 billion stock holding thats going to be worthless if AIG goes bankrupt.

Now, they're planning on adding another 30 billion dollars from TARP to buy even more AIG shares(not debt), and convert some of the previous debt to shares. How worthless.

The government has issued a large amount of cash to AIG in the form of secured loans. If they want to in order to secure repayment of them, they can take control of various AIG assets and sell them off themselves at a future date. Plenty of AIG's subsidiaries are doing just fine and will fetch considerable sums when auctioned off.

Like I said, unless all of AIG's assets go to zero, we will see a considerable amount of money back.

Yes, that's true, but how much should we lend them? We are on the road to effectively liquidating AIG at this rate. What is their balance sheet really like? Treasury doesn't really know because they are the insuror on a veritable TON of CDS and other derivatives, no?

-Robert

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: Drift3r
Allowing AIG to fail would be like a hostage pulling the trigger on his/her captors suicide belt that they are tied too.

Drirft3r may be correct, but its still ignores the question of how we allowed it to happen in the first place.

Wise people don't allow AIG or anyone else to be in the suicide vest carrying terrorist in the first place.

Yet every damn time we believe republirats in telling us that no regulation is the answer, we always end up in this situation.

Yes, great post! They have us by the balls because no one was watching the store during Bush's reign.

-Robert

 

[chess9]

We may not be in a depression, but we are genuinely fucked by all of this. Who knows how bad it will get? No one!!

Stay fit, keep your head screwed on in the forward position, and keep your powder dry.

-Robert

 

[fstime]

I have a relative who has a IRA (Individual Retirement Annuity) with AIG. They are funds that rolled over from the previous employers pension fund before retirement.

I believe the money is set at a minimum 3% growth rate and is getting somewhere around 3.05%. The contract to withdraw the money without penalty is in November.

What if AIG goes under? I have heard that it is required for such companies to maintain the dollar amounts of such investments at all times for such situations but I am still unsure whether the money is safe. If AIG can't touch it's assets which include such accounts the money should still be there even after the company goes under.

Can anyone confirm any of this?

 

[StageLeft]

Link

about who's benefiting from this. Gov was trying to hide it but it's coming out now, thank God.
BouZouki They need to understand what their money is in to be ensuring this growth rate.

I think, quite simply, nothing is absolutely safe now, not with the certainty one could have had 18 months ago. That relative can almost certainly _without penalty_ move their money to a different holder than AIG. Withdrawing an early IRA has a tax penalty but moving it elsewhere does not. They may need to ask an investment adviser on whether that's really necessary, though, as even if AIG went under certain things would be protected.

 

[Kadarin]

As kind of a tangent to this thread, I was going over some paperwork and I found an old receipt for my plasma tv. The extended warranty on it, it turns out, is held by "AIG WarrantyGuard, Inc." I wonder if it's worth anything...

 

[Chunkee]

we are all guilty for this situation.

we structured our fiscal stability on greed, planned obsolescence and waste. There should be no surprises or frowns for what is going on...go hug your shiney gadgets, drink your 5 dollar cup of coffee and watch you mind numbing 58 inch idiot box for comfort...meanwhile, you neighbor loses his job, his boss gets richer, and the waterfall effect is hastened now to rid the middle class...

quit pointing fingers and move toward living in harmony rather than getting one up on the next guy...

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Chunkee
we are all guilty for this situation.

we structured our fiscal stability on greed, planned obsolescence and waste. There should be no surprises or frowns for what is going on...go hug your shiney gadgets, drink your 5 dollar cup of coffee and watch you mind numbing 58 inch idiot box for comfort...meanwhile, you neighbor loses his job, his boss gets richer, and the waterfall effect is hastened now to rid the middle class...

quit pointing fingers and move toward living in harmony rather than getting one up on the next guy...

This is mostly right, most people are to blame on varying levels. Collectively we are obsessed with endless consumption and via credit cards, HELOCs, etc. try to get as much as we can now instead of later. The bankers were just a lot better at it than us.

 

[ericlp]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: eskimospy
The only way we would never see any of this money again would be if the net worth of AIG's assets were to become zero. Even the wannabe economists on here can't be that dumb.

Not really. Assest just need to be lower than liabilities. If you own 5 trillion in assets but have 5 trillion and 5 dollars in liabilities, the shareholders won't get any cash.The government(treasury in this case) doesn't own ALL of AIG's debt.

Another point to make is that all of our investment into AIG isn't in pure debt.We still have that 40 billion stock holding thats going to be worthless if AIG goes bankrupt.

Now, they're planning on adding another 30 billion dollars from TARP to buy even more AIG shares(not debt), and convert some of the previous debt to shares. How worthless.

Yeah, you know you are a tool...

Bush would be passing out they candy to AIG as well, As he did twice already.

What are you gonna do let 15 million 401K's and IRA's get tossed out that people are relying on to pay the mortgage? Wanna see a real disaster? Yeah. let it fail....

We will have to nationalize both banks and insurances. But that's just my take. This isn't Obama's fault he just in a jam that bush left in this position.

 

[extra]

Originally posted by: Zebo
http://www.scribd.com/doc/12704684/The-TARP-in-Pictures

Enjoy

-Z

EPIC POST.. omfg.. rofl.... i got water on my keyboard

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: extra

Originally posted by: Zebo
http://www.scribd.com/doc/12704684/The-TARP-in-Pictures

Enjoy

-Z

EPIC POST.. omfg.. rofl.... i got water on my keyboard

Damn, what's wrong with that site it crashes my browser each time I load it.